Textbook money grabbing from BWML

[Chris Lingwood]

BWML bought my marina last year and I've just had next years marina fee's through. Previously the narrow boats had a discount so for instance last year we only paid £77 instead of £100. This year however that appears to have gone and they've put the price up to £123 a meter. The kind people have therefore increased my mooring charges from £1540 to £2460 and for what improvement. Bugger all. If anything its a more incompetent place than it was before. It took 2 weeks to fix some pontoon lights despite me reminding them everyday with increasing irritation.

 

Congratulations BW you've ruined my day.

 

Now I've got the entertainment of trying to find another mooring...which I probably won't be able to because BW want everyone in marinas...like the one they have shot the price up on.

 

At least I'm all paid up untill october.

 

 

To put the icing on the cake my marina is one of the nicer i've seen because its for yachts so there is a good 60ft between pontoons, BW of course isn't impressed with something being nice so they are adding finger pontoons so they can fit even more boats in at this absurd new price in an increasingly unpleasant atmosphere. BRAVO!!!

Edited March 2, 2007 by Chris Lingwood

[Ernie]

The kind people have therefore increased my mooring charges from £1540 to £2460 and for what improvement.

 

I think this is about the going rate around the midlands and southern areas of the country. It's about what I pay for a 60 foot boat in a non BW marina.

[charles123]

BWML bought my marina last year and I've just had next years marina fee's through. Previously the narrow boats had a discount so for instance last year we only paid £77 instead of £100. This year however that appears to have gone and they've put the price up to £123 a meter. The kind people have therefore increased my mooring charges from £1540 to £2460 and for what improvement. Bugger all. If anything its a more incompetent place than it was before. It took 2 weeks to fix some pontoon lights despite me reminding them everyday with increasing irritation.

 

Congratulations BW you've ruined my day.

 

Now I've got the entertainment of trying to find another mooring...which I probably won't be able to because BW want everyone in marinas...like the one they have shot the price up on.

 

At least I'm all paid up untill october.

To put the icing on the cake my marina is one of the nicer i've seen because its for yachts so there is a good 60ft between pontoons, BW of course isn't impressed with something being nice so they are adding finger pontoons so they can fit even more boats in at this absurd new price in an increasingly unpleasant atmosphere. BRAVO!!!

 

Its about market forces, if people are prepared to pay that price then the price is correct but if they end up with under occupancy then the price is too high. I know a yacht owner who pays double what I pay for my narrowboat so maybe its usual for yachts v narrowboats, and in your case its a shared marina. No comfort but you could look upon it that you have had a low price for some time and now reallity has caught up

 

Charles

[chris w]

Yep, I was paying about £1500 on the Southern Grand Union for a 28' GRP cruiser in a BW "marina".

 

Chris

[John Orentas]

Its about market forces, if people are prepared to pay that price then the price is correct but if they end up with under occupancy then the price is too high. I know a yacht owner who pays double what I pay for my narrowboat so maybe its usual for yachts v narrowboats, and in your case its a shared marina. No comfort but you could look upon it that you have had a low price for some time and now reallity has caught up

 

Charles

 

 

That is just where you are wrong Charles, 'market forces' only work if there is a degree of commercial competition. BW controls all the towpath mooring and is now striving to own and therefore control all the Marina's too. Again BW are pretending to live in the commercial world but in fact they are very close now be being a monopoly though enjoying all the trappings of the free market organisation. Why the government do not impose a controlling body on them as they have done with other similar organisations I do not know. I have distinct socialist leanings but I would rather see the canals privatised than carry on with the present situation.

[Ernie]

and is now striving to own and therefore control all the Marina's too.

When I was looking for a marina 15 months ago, my findings were that the vast majority were privately owned.

 

In the area where I am at the moment (nr Braunston), the vast majority of the marinas are private and charge over £2k/yr for a 60 foot narrow boat paid yearly in advance.

[chris w]

That is just where you are wrong Charles, 'market forces' only work if there is a degree of commercial competition. BW controls all the towpath mooring and is now striving to own and therefore control all the Marina's too. Again BW are pretending to live in the commercial world but in fact they are very close now be being a monopoly though enjoying all the trappings of the free market organisation. Why the government do not impose a controlling body on them as they have done with other similar organisations I do not know. I have distinct socialist leanings but I would rather see the canals privatised than carry on with the present situation.

 

No, Charles is correct; it's "market forces". If BW charged £20K a year to moor a boat, the marinas would be empty. The fact that finding a mooring is like looking for rocking-horse droppings shows that they have got the "market" price about right however much we might complain about it.

 

Chris

[DaveR]

All very well going on about a 60 footer, but on the numbers Chris has given he has a 20 footer. So £2,460 a year is a tad on the high side. I am paying £1436 for the Bensham (40 foot) per year.

 

OK Blue Water is not one of the most luxurious marinas but it is easy to get to, there is a good crowd in there and Kevin who runs the place is very amenable to helping out in any way possible.

[tony collins]

All very well going on about a 60 footer, but on the numbers Chris has given he has a 20 footer. So £2,460 a year is a tad on the high side. I am paying £1436 for the Bensham (40 foot) per year.

Er... actually on Chris' figures he has a 20 metre boat ergo 65FT Unless some out there know differently.

 

Tony.

[Supermalc]

As usual there's an obvious answer........everyone become bridge-hoppers.

[gaggle]

is right.

make mooring fee,s bw,s poll tax, a bit of cant pay wont pay right lets have a riot behaviour would not be an altogether bad thing.

[peasant]

Sawley marina bertholders went to a meeting with BWMl's md and management from Sawley at which the main topic was the 17% increase in mooring fees.This takes grade 1 to £117 per metre.The md 's opinion was that the market forces would dictate a further 20% in future years.He stated that any profits from BWML will go to BW.

[Big Steve]

I'm trying to find a mooring, a farmer friend has a field which backs onto the canal opposite the towpath, no public access, he says I can moor there, and now I've found that BW want 1/2 the fee that they charge in the local marina. There are no facilities whatsoever, I would have thought that the annual licence covered floating!

[Keeping Up]

I'm trying to find a mooring, a farmer friend has a field which backs onto the canal opposite the towpath, no public access, he says I can moor there, and now I've found that BW want 1/2 the fee that they charge in the local marina. There are no facilities whatsoever, I would have thought that the annual licence covered floating!

My advice would be, if you've found such a mooring, then take it.

 

They normally want half the cost of the nearest no-facilities BW mooring. They should deduct an allowance for the marina faciliites before then charging half of that figure. You could approach BW to negotiate over that.

 

I also feel annoyed at having to pay this fee, since (unusually) I own the land up to and including the bank, which makes me responsible to BW for the maintenance of that bank at my own cost. BW say it is because my boat is moored over the canal bed which they own - but whenever I am not moored there I will still be floating over a bit of canal bed and someone else can float over the bit that I usually moor over if they wish to. However there is nothing to be done about it, the principle of charging half price for so-called end-of-garden moorings has become well established even though the legal case that established BW's right to charge this fee, was based on specific circumstances of the particular case which are not necesarily applicable to other EoG moorings.

[fuzzyduck]

I have my eye on a nice House with a 120 Foot garden backing onto the GU. IF we decide to buy the place, then I will either be fitting rails and trolley, or a boat lift. There is no way I'd be paying BW to moor at the end of my own garden. easy for me tho, as my next boat is going to be a 32 footer.

[carlt]

Apparently there was an ombudsman's ruling a few years ago that, if no eog mooring had ever been paid for, then BW couldn't demand payment. As soon as it is 'offered' though, they can then insist on payment from then on. I can't find the details of this though, so it's not definite. I know it had something to do with that guy who bought the title of 'lord of Yardley Gobion', thinking it gave him the right to dig a marina and break into the canal without paying BW (it didn't), so if anyone out there is better at searching...?

[GRPCruiserman]

BWML bought my marina last year and I've just had next years marina fee's through. Previously the narrow boats had a discount so for instance last year we only paid £77 instead of £100. This year however that appears to have gone and they've put the price up to £123 a meter. The kind people have therefore increased my mooring charges from £1540 to £2460 and for what improvement. Bugger all. If anything its a more incompetent place than it was before. It took 2 weeks to fix some pontoon lights despite me reminding them everyday with increasing irritation.

 

Congratulations BW you've ruined my day.

 

Now I've got the entertainment of trying to find another mooring...which I probably won't be able to because BW want everyone in marinas...like the one they have shot the price up on.

 

At least I'm all paid up untill october.

To put the icing on the cake my marina is one of the nicer i've seen because its for yachts so there is a good 60ft between pontoons, BW of course isn't impressed with something being nice so they are adding finger pontoons so they can fit even more boats in at this absurd new price in an increasingly unpleasant atmosphere. BRAVO!!!

 

I thnik we all new that when BW took over Glasson Dock there would be cost increases, that's why a lot of Yaughties left straight away.

 

The whole BWML thing sickens me, at nearby Galgate, the whole BW owned setup was transfered to BWML, a company, from state owned BW with no recompense for BW licence payers or taxpayers who previously owned it. This included the Sanitary Station block which was due to be moved to Glasson Dock for all to use.

 

BW had therefore wasted money in buying the new Sanitary Station Block at Galgate whilst giving away the old block, result two blocks at Galgate, one for moorers only, and one for everyone.

 

You might, if you're lucky, get a mooring at Carnforth if you don't live on board as the local council tried to enfore council tax on the moorers a couple of years ago, and the marina half emptied overnight. Be careful, though, as I priced up an overnight stay with electric to charge my batteries last year at £5, and when I turned up with flat batteries, the charge magically increased to £10 for the night, so get it in writing!! Also there are rumours that it may be closing for housing development soon as well.

 

You may get a mooring at Hest Bank, I think there are a couple of gaps, but they reduced the length of permenant moorings by a third there a couple of years ago, so you may be out of luck there as well.

 

If you need a marina environment, Chippendales at Garstang often have a short-ish waiting list, so give them a call as well.

 

Good luck, anyway, I sold my boat due to these DEFRA cuts and the associated increse in charges, and I try and avoid BW waterways now on principle, don't forget The Bridgewater Canal who's charges are much lower, and you can always go in to Preston Dock but they aren't that cheap. At least BWML and BW do have competition in this area, it just takes a load of us to vote with our wallet so to speak for them to realise it.

Edited March 4, 2007 by GRPCruiserman

[Supermalc]

I'm trying to find a mooring, a farmer friend has a field which backs onto the canal opposite the towpath, no public access, he says I can moor there, and now I've found that BW want 1/2 the fee that they charge in the local marina. There are no facilities whatsoever, I would have thought that the annual licence covered floating!

 

Is it a canal, or river. If it is a river, find out if the landowner has up to date Riparian Rights. If this is the case, take BW to court, you may find they withdraw their demand. They may however insist on a proper floating mooring. This doesn't have to be a posh one costing £1000s, just secure and safe.

[seaandland]

BWML bought my marina last year and I've just had next years marina fee's through. Previously the narrow boats had a discount so for instance last year we only paid £77 instead of £100. This year however that appears to have gone and they've put the price up to £123 a meter. The kind people have therefore increased my mooring charges from £1540 to £2460 and for what improvement. Bugger all. If anything its a more incompetent place than it was before. It took 2 weeks to fix some pontoon lights despite me reminding them everyday with increasing irritation.

 

Congratulations BW you've ruined my day.

 

Now I've got the entertainment of trying to find another mooring...which I probably won't be able to because BW want everyone in marinas...like the one they have shot the price up on.

 

At least I'm all paid up untill october.

To put the icing on the cake my marina is one of the nicer i've seen because its for yachts so there is a good 60ft between pontoons, BW of course isn't impressed with something being nice so they are adding finger pontoons so they can fit even more boats in at this absurd new price in an increasingly unpleasant atmosphere. BRAVO!!!

 

 

Get down Froghall basin mate, 1 million pounds spent on it, one boat in it all winter and they have not paid a penny, apart from basic moorings.

Sometimes i just wonder.

[Hairy-Neil]

The vast majority of boats still don't attempt the passage through Froghall Tunnel. I was there last august on friend's boat that had managed to get through some years ago even before the levels were lowered. According to the guage we were still too high for the tunnel by maybe 3 inches, yet we passed through with 6 inches to spare..... BW's height gauge is erring very much on the safe side and most boaters believe it without question.....

 

We are currently hatching plans to 'force' a passage of Dudley Tunnel in the same boat, though that will mean loading ballast of some kind to bring the front down....

[GRPCruiserman]

Get down Froghall basin mate, 1 million pounds spent on it, one boat in it all winter and they have not paid a penny, apart from basic moorings.

Sometimes i just wonder.

 

Bet DEFRA wouldn't allow this spending today.

Edited March 4, 2007 by GRPCruiserman

[Hairy-Neil]

Get down Froghall basin mate, 1 million pounds spent on it.....

 

Look on it as the first step in the restoration through to Utoxeter.....

[Chris Lingwood]

There was a slight confusion and the new charges already include the vat and the old ones didn't (which wasn't overly clear)....its still gone up a fair bit though and I'll still be attempting to find somewhere else. In fairness to the manager he said that the charges would go up 4% which is what they have. Unless of course you have BW licence where it has gone up much much more.

 

You might think the yachtys have left but there's more boats there now than ever. I've never seen it so full! In fact its starting to get hard to park because there's boats everywhere!

[GRPCruiserman]

There was a slight confusion and the new charges already include the vat and the old ones didn't (which wasn't overly clear)....its still gone up a fair bit though and I'll still be attempting to find somewhere else. In fairness to the manager he said that the charges would go up 4% which is what they have. Unless of course you have BW licence where it has gone up much much more.

 

You might think the yachtys have left but there's more boats there now than ever. I've never seen it so full! In fact its starting to get hard to park because there's boats everywhere!

 

I don't know whether anyone knows, but BW are also trying to make it difficult for us to hold the annual LCBC rally at Glasson Dock at Whit Bank Holiday, an event that's been held since the 1950s where we used to get help with moving stuff etc, they now wantto charge us to hold the rally and have banned on site toilets and all sorts.

 

Quite Ironic when they spent a fortune putting in the concrete base for a sanitary station and then gave it to BWML instead of moving it there!!

 

Do the toilets and showers on the marina now open with a BW key as they are now BW owned, or are they still for marina moorers only? If they put in a pontoon near the slipway for 1 hour use, then the marina facility could be used as a sanitary station. Is there still a charge for the marina slipway for day use do you know?

Edited March 6, 2007 by GRPCruiserman

[Chris Lingwood]

I don't know whether anyone knows, but BW are also trying to make it difficult for us to hold the annual LCBC rally at Glasson Dock at Whit Bank Holiday, an event that's been held since the 1950s where we used to get help with moving stuff etc, they now wantto charge us to hold the rally and have banned on site toilets and all sorts.

 

Quite Ironic when they spent a fortune putting in the concrete base for a sanitary station and then gave it to BWML instead of moving it there!!

 

Do the toilets and showers on the marina now open with a BW key as they are now BW owned, or are they still for marina moorers only? If they put in a pontoon near the slipway for 1 hour use, then the marina facility could be used as a sanitary station. Is there still a charge for the marina slipway for day use do you know?

 

Yup still a charge for slipway and there's a boat in it at the moment so it would be a fuss too. All the marina facilities are still just for berth holders. I don't know if they would let you use them if you asked but your key certainly won't work. If they put a pontoon there you'd have a bit of a job getting the bigger boats round to the diesel pump.

 

Thats a bit off about the LCBC rally. I thought they were supposed to be preserving heritage instead of trying to destroy it. Might only be a rally but these are the things that make the canals interesting. I imagine they are talking to the woman who seams to be an area manager of some sort for the BWML. I don't think they will find much flexibility there if she conducts her business as she conducts herself. Everyone I know that's met her has taken an instant dislike to her. The manager of the marina is a reasonable fellow as far as he is allowed, but unfortunately he has a job to do with aims that directly oppose the quality of the marina. As far as I can tell the more unpleasant a marina is the more profitable it is. Fortunately the worst of the changes will take time.