beta marine propgen any good

[chevron]

Hi Wonder if anyone could point me in the right direction for a manual for the prop gen as fitted to a beta BV2203 also any information regarding reliability and thoughts of how good the system worked on a narrowboat

[nipper]

Hello Chevron

Is not the Prop Gen a device that is fitted to the propeller shaft of a yacht to generate electricity to charge the batteries?

As the uningaged, from it's gearbox, shaft rotates with the pressure of water going by the propeller when the yacht is using it's sails, and charges up the batteries.

If I am correct, then the Prop Gen would only be of use to a long distance yacht plying the seas, no matter what size engine is connected to it, and not to a narrow boat plying the great inland waters of this fair land!

Nipper

[Tony Brooks]

No, from memory its a device fitted to a PRM gearbox by Beta a bit like a trolling valve. This allows and engine fitted with (I assume) a Travelpower mains voltage system to run at high revs so the Travelpower is producing a high output while keeping the boat speed low. It seems to have been quietly forgotten so I wonder why.

 

It seems Beta are now promoting the hybrid diesel electric drive.

 

I have questions about both systems. In the first case I wonder about the long term implications of in effect slipping the gearbox clutch, even if the drive is supposed to be transmitted by the oil film. In the second case I wonder about battery capacity, maintenance, life and ongoing cost.

Edited May 17, 2015 by Tony Brooks

[raymondh]

AS above with a little more info

 

The engine is a 4 cylinder 2.2 litre Beta Marine Propgen unit that is fully cocooned and produces 11kV of power at 230Volts. It operates at a constant speed, and this combined with it being fully cocooned and exhausting through a “hospital generator silencer,” allows it to runs very quietly. A hydraulic gearbox and trolling mechanism is used to control the prop shaft speed.

 

Ray

[chevron]

Thanks for the replies Ray has got which system it is there seems to be a few boats fitted with this system it has a ac generator shaft driven via a extra fan belt and as Ray has said it alters the engine speed to 1,500rpm when cruising via an hydraulic gearbox. I am looking at a boat with this system on and am worried about how reliable it is it seems to alter the type of gearbox fitted I was hoping that maybe someone on here has the system and could advise if they have had trouble free cruising

[Tony Brooks]

Google Narrowboat Whisper and see if you can contact Andy. His boat must be 10 years old now.

[ditchcrawler]

Google Narrowboat Whisper and see if you can contact Andy. His boat must be 10 years old now.

http://www.nb-whisper.com/

 

16 years actually

[Arthur Brown]

Well cement mixer lorries turn the drum by constant speed Power Take off (sometimes hydraulic from the fan belt end) and drive the vari speed lorry from the clutch end, so it's possible.

 

With something as specialised as this I'd be looking for the maker's service agent until I found someone local.

[Tony Brooks]

Well cement mixer lorries turn the drum by constant speed Power Take off (sometimes hydraulic from the fan belt end) and drive the vari speed lorry from the clutch end, so it's possible.

 

With something as specialised as this I'd be looking for the maker's service agent until I found someone local.

 

As far as I know they do it by variable displacement pumps or hydraulic motors, not by in effect slipping a wet clutch. If one was willing to accept the efficiency penalty it would be easy with a hydrostatic drive and I would feel more reliable in the long term (as long as you keep the oil clean).

[chevron]

Thanks for all the help I have emailed Andy as suggested above regarding what and if he has had any problems on his boat Whisper with this prop gen system

[by'eck]

Sounds as though its a basic generator with fixed speed engine driving a 4 pole AC alternator requiring little or no electronics, assuming the 1500 rpm is maintained mechanically to guarantee a constant 50 Hz output, but with a power take off via clever gearbox to drive prop.

I suspect there will be conditions where the gearbox oil cooler will earn its keep though when driving the prop.

As is often the case a dual purpose device never seems to work quite as well as two dedicated ones, which may explain why Beta no longer offer it..

[Iain_S]

One of the trip boats at Linlithgow on the Edinburgh and Glasgow Union Canal had one of these fitted a good few years ago. (It replaced an electric drive)

Long time since I drove it, but from memory:

 

The original (non standard, I think) fitment had engine speeds of 1000 r.p.m., with no power generation, or 1500 rpm when 240V was needed. The generator is belt driven from the front of the engine. Prop speed is controlled by a trolling valve in the gearbox. . Adjustment of the generator drive belts and pulleys was, IIRC, quite critical and there was also a problem with the gearbox overheating, which would cause it to spit its oil out through the breather, making it run hotter, and throw out more oil until it lost dtive. Ths was cured by a dedicated gearbox keel cooler.

 

The control system was modified over the years, initially by tying a piece of string onto the throttle to increase "slow" rpm to 1100 or so, which gave a more comfortable cruising speed, and then modified so that the first movement of the speed control locked up the trolling valve, following whch it adjusted engine speed as normal. As the main 240V appliance was the urn, 50Hz wasn't critical, and so the generator control system was bypassed so that the generator was in circuit all the time.

 

All in all, it seemed to be a fairly reliable box, provided it was installed correctly, with particular attention paid to gearbox cooling, which could be more of a problem when the engine speed is fixed at 1500,

 

 

Iain

[ditchcrawler]

Thanks for all the help I have emailed Andy as suggested above regarding what and if he has had any problems on his boat Whisper with this prop gen system

I have never heard him mention any problems.

Edit to add

Other than being shouted at to slow down because the engine note doesn't change.

Edited May 17, 2015 by ditchcrawler

[Alan Saunders]

I have followed this thread just to find out what a 'Beta Prop-Gen' is; the weblink provided by RaymondH answered my question, thank you.

 

Unfortunately, many boat power systems have similar names, e.g. 'Whispergen' could be a compact diesel generator or a 'heat/power' unit from another manufacturer. Now I find that the boat named 'Whisper' has neither of those.

 

I have long dreamed of efficient, cost effective (economic?), silent power for a canal boat but nothing satisfies me except solar power and then, only for half of the year or so.

 

Alan

[ditchcrawler]

I have followed this thread just to find out what a 'Beta Prop-Gen' is; the weblink provided by RaymondH answered my question, thank you.

 

Unfortunately, many boat power systems have similar names, e.g. 'Whispergen' could be a compact diesel generator or a 'heat/power' unit from another manufacturer. Now I find that the boat named 'Whisper' has neither of those.

 

I have long dreamed of efficient, cost effective (economic?), silent power for a canal boat but nothing satisfies me except solar power and then, only for half of the year or so.

 

Alan

Quant pole

[OldGoat]

Methinks the reason why Beta dropped the PropGen was lack-of-demand, aka - cost.

I've seen a couple on the system (or perhaps the same - twice) - sounded great! IIRC the one I talked to had it 'cos his Management hated gas...

 

I discussed the matter with Ted Spash (then MD of Beta) and queried the desirability of the 'trolling valve' (slipping clutches to me seemed to be A Bad Idea). His response was that it was a feature of the gearbox - not heard of on the waterways, but used on small sea going boats.

The disadvantage (if any) is that the system has to be designed into the boat, given that the engine plus cocoon can take up more room than a normal installation.

 

A later incarnation is the hybrid propulsion unit which gives more flexibility for engine mounting, plus the advantage of true silent running should you need it. Price tag circa £10K - Ker-ching....

 

Edit: digression -

On topic - Yes - if the style suits you (question the need if you don't need all electric. As to question - I've not heard of horror stories - but then they didn't sell many...

Edited May 18, 2015 by OldGoat