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Starcoaster

Paloma pipe popping problem

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This is my Paloma. Her name is PLOMA.

 

IMG-20150425-01431_zpscwoyxf2s.jpg

 

She is normally very good and well behaved about making the water hot and stuff, but she has recently taken up one really fecking annoying problem.

 

The hose going out of the bottom (the red one) that sends the hot water to the sink and shower:

 

IMG-20150425-01433_zps6grugqem.jpg

 

Has taken on the annoying habit of popping off the pipe on occasion, and pissing hot water all down the back of the fridge and into the bilge. This necessitates me leaping out of the shower to turn off the water, catch the outflow in a pan, and fix the thing back on.

It happened once several months ago, and has happened a few times since, and is getting progressively more annoying.

 

The hose is connected to the pipe with a jubilee clip, and I have tried a couple of different types of clip to get a better grip. I also tighten it every time I use the shower (before and after) when it is both hot and cold, ie, the pipe and hose are both expanded and contracted.

But I cannot stop it happening! The hose goes about 2" up the pipe and there is no give to push it up further.

I cannot replace the whole hosing that takes the water to the sink and shower, so I am wondering what my options are to stop this from happening.

Is there a better clip or other way of attaching the hose to the pipe, or something I can insert between the hose and the pipe that can be affixed more securely and permanently?

 

Thanks.

Edited by Starcoaster

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Had a similar problem. Soldered a straight pipe connector (they have, mine does anyway, an external ridge) on the end of the brass pipe . Pushed the pipe over this and then tightened the jubilee clip. Sorted!

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When I have HAD to do that I have soldered a piece of electrical wire round the pipe to for a barb connection. Can you not push it on further and use two clips that may help, also use the right tool to tighten the clip and not a screwdriver


How about one of these or would the water be to hot for it http://www.jtmplumbing.co.uk/john-guest-speedfit-c432/john-guest-speedfit-fittings-10mm-28mm-c167/john-guest-speedfit-jg-speedfit-hose-connector-pp3466?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=john-guest-speedfit-jg-speedfit-hose-connector-size-15-x-1-2-nc448-size-15-x-1-2-nc448-nc448&utm_campaign=product%2Blisting%2Bads&gclid=CjwKEAjw9uypBRD5pMDYtsKxvXcSJACcb9AYLLrXQOfYOTC-ef2w3LkJ1iUqjFE_1GgIyZwQ5GjSWBoCJ2Xw_wcB

 

APjGrQk.png

Edited by ditchcrawler

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There are a couple of problems with jubilee clips as I have found out to my regret over the years. When they are put on when new and the pipes are nice and new they work well. Over the years though the inside pipe that the jubilee clip is clamped round deteriorates. Then the jubilee has to be tightened progressively more and more untill eventually nothing grips properly and when a little bit of pressure is applied it gives way. Secondly that jubilee clip is not a very good one. Because the splines that are used to tighten the clip are open they tend to stretch. This allows the clip to loosen and, again over time, the clip will eventually let go. You need to cut the red pipe back a bit so that you have a good inner and outer and replace that clip with one like the one you have on the cold water pipe. The clip should also be fitted behind a flare on the copper pipe but that would be a major mod to what you have. I am using jubilee clips on a lot of pipes on my engine cooling system for the take offs for my radiators and they are holding okay so far.

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This setup will always give you trouble as the red pvc pipe you have used on the hot connection will soften and deform under the jubilee clip, until it pushes off the pipe as there is nothing to stop it. The same applies to rubber pipe but it takes longer to fail.

One remedy is to remove the copper pipe and fitting directly below the heater and purchase a 1/2" bsp female thread x 1/2" hose tail adapter, fit this below the heater with PTFE thread tape, then connect the hose onto this using a jubilee clip that is only just big enough so that it is a snug fit before tightening.

Alternatively purchase a 15mm compression fitting x 1/2" bsp female adapter and a 1/2" bsp hose tail and fit it on the end of the existing pipe, if you have the space.

Another remedy is to put a 15mm compression fitting on the end of the tube and tighten it until the olive is compressed, then remove the fitting leaving the nut and olive on the pipe. You then need to cut through the nut twice until you can prise it off leaving you with a 'flare' over which you can push and secure the tube.

 

Don't forget to treat the cold line in the same manner and both ends of the pipes if you don't want to flood the boat!

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Bad workmanship. You can also fix an olive on that copper pipe which will act as a serrated nozzle, by getting any old fitting, a brass Tee, elbow, straight. Pull off the red hose, push up the fitting 'nut and olive first' onto the pipe, then screw down the nut tight onto the olive and fitting, this will squeeze the olive onto the pipe end. Unscrew the fitting leaviing the olive and nut behind, push the red hose back on and well over the olive and replace clip behind the olive bulge. You can either just leave the nut there or cut it off with a hacksaw or angle grinder. Those older Palomas are much nicer looking than the later ph-5lf model. You could also smear glue on the pipe end and tighten the hose up on that.

 

 

Olives are nice scattered over Pizzas.

Edited by bizzard

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One remedy is to remove the copper pipe and fitting directly below the heater and purchase a 1/2" bsp female thread x 1/2" hose tail adapter, fit this below the heater with PTFE thread tape, then connect the hose onto this using a jubilee clip that is only just big enough so that it is a snug fit before tightening.

 

This is (I think!) what we have just done today after someone looked at it for me (after I posted here); however, there was no one piece adapter fitting available, so I have ended up with two which has resulted in the tiniest trickling leak from that joint, despite the PTFE tape. I have a one piece fitting on order now to replace it with for the long term, in the hopes of resolving the problem properly!

It also looks much less tinpot now somehow! I will do the cold the same way at some point, but as it stands, I am working with the "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" mentality, as what with this, my laptop suddenly refusing to work yesterday (but being fine today) and my motorbike inexplicably sounding like a bag of spanners today when I went up the shops, I feel like I have plenty to do! biggrin.png

 

Thanks all!

Edited by Starcoaster

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Its the olive option I've used sucessfully, but instead of squeezing the olive and struggling to cut the nut off the pipe, I just soldered it on

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The correct nozzles with neoprene washer seals that screw directly to the heaters threaded pipes should be available.

Always switch the pump off whatever you've got when you go out or you could return to a flooded out boat.

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Get a 1/2" BSPM to 12mm brass hosetail, that fits the 15mm pipe just like a compression fitting, use a 15mm compression nut an olive, that leaves you with a proper barbed hose tail for the red hose, a decent ose clip will then hold it perfectly well.

 

41HZRzQT66L._SX300_.jpg

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But the Palomas water in and out pipe stubs have a male thread. The nozzles I mentioned have female threads and screw directly to the pipe stubs with no extra complications.

And I'm pretty certain that domestic water pumps like Surflow,s plastic female thread nozzles will also fit direct. I have some knocking about if Starcoaster needs them.

Edited by bizzard

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I have a minor (probably!) system water leak anyway, so I always have the water off and a tap open when not actually in use. It has become a total routine for me now, but any other bugger who comes over has to be trained and conditioned in the use of the taps... :D

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I have a minor (probably!) system water leak anyway, so I always have the water off and a tap open when not actually in use. It has become a total routine for me now, but any other bugger who comes over has to be trained and conditioned in the use of the taps... biggrin.png

That's good. I have had to replace sodden and rotted bathroom floors on two boats after pipes popped off, in the last couple of years.

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I would say the clip in question is actually quite a good one, wide, stainless, etc.

 

We have red/blue flex to the back cabin and had the same issue, I fixed it by flaring the pipe over a bit with a screwdriver, so far so good. I also added a second clip as I had one to hand....

 

 

Daniel

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But the Palomas water in and out pipe stubs have a male thread. The nozzles I mentioned have female threads and screw directly to the pipe stubs with no extra complications.

 

This is the adaptor which will fit straight onto the Paloma outlet connection and dispense with the short bit of copper.

 

$_57.JPG

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Brass-1-2-PT-Female-Thread-14mm-Water-Fuel-Hose-Barbed-Straight-Connector-/121247888617?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item1c3aeff4e9

 

 

But the red hose might be too short to reach it once the copper pipe is removed, so there's one possible complication!

 

 

 

 

And I'm pretty certain that domestic water pumps like Surflow,s plastic female thread nozzles will also fit direct. I have some knocking about if Starcoaster needs them.

 

I think those have loose collar nuts and conical connection faces, so may not easily seal to the plain BSP stud connectors on the Paloma. But I'm not certain about that...

 

 

MtB

Edited by Mike the Boilerman

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This is the adaptor which will fit straight onto the Paloma outlet connection and dispense with the short bit of copper.

 

$_57.JPG

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Brass-1-2-PT-Female-Thread-14mm-Water-Fuel-Hose-Barbed-Straight-Connector-/121247888617?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item1c3aeff4e9

 

 

But the red hose might be too short to reach it once the copper pipe is removed, so there's one possible complication!

 

 

 

 

 

I think those have loose collar nuts and conical connection faces, so may not easily seal to the plain BSP stud connectors on the Paloma. But I'm not certain about that...

 

 

MtB

Ahoy Mike. That one looks like it has a conical seat. The one I meant has square on seating in there that a neoprene or viton sealing washer sits on.

I expect the pump is just below those hoses and could be remounted on a box to raise it up so the hoses reach. Just checked on my spare pump and 'yes', they have internal comical seats.

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Ahoy Mike. That one looks like it has a conical seat. The one I meant has square on seating in there that a neoprene or viton sealing washer sits on.

I expect the pump is just below those hoses and could be remounted on a box to raise it up so the hoses reach. Just checked on my spare pump and 'yes', they have internal comical seats.

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May I suggest not mixing BSP sizes with metric.

If you do need a decent clamp, don't use a jubillie clip, use a Bandit instead, as recommended by all high pressure hose suppliers.

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