Energenie power meter.

[talisman]

I disagree with calling people names on here.

 

I find it hard to reconcile the OP's statement that they used to be an electronics technician by trade with them appearing unable to grasp what an Ampere is.

 

But then I suppose a technician is someone who just unscrews and screws up the nuts and bolts. A solid understanding of scientific principles is not essential to be a jobbing technician.

 

Sort of QED, I suppose!

I know what an ampere is,i assume you dont.

You have just proved what a complete idiot you are,well done.

[MtB]

Go on then. What do you think an Ampere is?

[talisman]

Why dont you google the term "Ampere" and find out for yourself.

Its not rocket science.

[MtB]

You don't know, do you!

[Flyboy]

I have met many so called experts and many are clueless

Obviously look in a mirror quite a lot then.

[talisman]

This started because i stated my kit draws 80A in a day.

It does?

What is wrong with that ?

Obviously look in a mirror quite a lot then.

Must be your bedtime?

[MtB]

This started because i stated my kit draws 80A in a day.

It does?

What is wrong with that ?

Must be your bedtime?

 

 

As you seem disinclined to look it up, an amp is a measure of current. Current is unit of charge (a number of electrons) passing a point in a unit of time. Therefore units of current (e.g. Amperes) already include the <in a day> bit. So stating current <in a day> is meaningless. Current is time independent.

To press the point, if your kit draws (as you say) 80 Amps in a day, how many Amps does it draw in an hour?

[bizzard]

And an Umpere is a measurement of intolerance.

[talisman]

Try dividing by 24 lol. Thats got nothing to do with it.

 

Its simple. Audit

How much current does an appliance draw, the load.

If the appliance is run for 1 hour you have the hourly load,multiply by 24 the daily load etc.

So a fridge requires 6A.

But it only runs for 15 mins /hour.

So it uses 1.5 A per hour x 24 =36A.

It has drawn 36A in a day.

[Flyboy]

I disagree with calling people names on here.

 

I find it hard to reconcile the OP's statement that they used to be an electronics technician by trade with them appearing unable to grasp what an Ampere is.

 

But then I suppose a technician is someone who just unscrews and screws up the nuts and bolts. A solid understanding of scientific principles is not essential to be a jobbing technician.

 

Sort of QED, I suppose!

The OP say he was a technician, makes you wonder what he is now. Ok Talisman please tell us your present position is ?

[talisman]

The OP say he was a technician, makes you wonder what he is now. Ok Talisman please tell us your present position is ?

Im on the K & A near Devizes,what is your present position?

[Sir Nibble]

The fog clears!

An ampere is a transfer of charge at a rate of one coulomb per second. That is quantity against time. Like MPH. If you do 30mph for 24 hrs you do not travel a distance of 720mph.

If your fridge takes 6A for 15 mins in every hour that is 6A for 6hours or 36Ampere HOURS. Amps and amp hours are not the same thing and it is a mistake amateurs often make. What is difficult to take is that from a position of ignorance such sh1t and derision has flown at those who do actually understand electricity.

At least we can now see what is meant underneath the mangling of the SI system.

[MtB]

Try dividing by 24 lol. Thats got nothing to do with it.

 

Its simple. Audit

How much current does an appliance draw, the load.

If the appliance is run for 1 hour you have the hourly load,multiply by 24 the daily load etc.

Zero out of ten. No wonder you failed your degree in electrical engineering!

 

 

So a fridge requires 6A.

But it only runs for 15 mins /hour.

So it uses 1.5 A per hour x 24 =36A.

It has drawn 36A in a day.

Jeez, NO!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

It draws 6AmpHours if it runs for an hour. if it only runs for 15 mins id draws 1.5AmpHours.

 

In 24 hours it will have drawn 36 AmpHours.

[Marco_mark]

Come on, give a guy a break, I've seen you guys being more helpful in the past....

[MtB]

Come on, give a guy a break, I've seen you guys being more helpful in the past....

Happy to give him a break if he stops being abusive.

He's not interested in learning. He says we are the ones who are wrong.

[talisman]

All that fuss because i didnt say 36AH.

If that was all that niggled you why didnt you say in the first place?

I took it for granted you knew what i was talking about.

Picky ,picky .

[MtB]

All that fuss because i didnt say 36AH.

If that was all that niggled you why didnt you say in the first place?

I took it for granted you knew what i was talking about.

Picky ,picky .

 

Why not say what you meant rather than posting in riddles then?

[matty40s]

You my friend, have not got a f***ing Scooby what you are on about.

welcome back Sr Nibble, glad to see you cant stay away when needed.

[MtB]

So in your book an Amp = an Amp per hour = an AmpHour. Yes?

 

There really is no hope with idiots like you about.

 

Damn you've got me at it now, lol!

[Tony Brooks]

Sorry to disagree Tony. My way is foolproof ,your is not. Its far better imho to actually see what the wattage is . EG my fridge states 112 kwh per year. Yes you can narrow down to days and hours but i simply plugged in and watched as the unit indicated clearly the wattage. I can also check at various times of the day when the temperatures vary. Its 18/19 in the morning and tonight its 30 my boat. Its interesting to note the change in wattage. My laptop states 100-240v ac and 1.4a,when checked it varies between 13-18 watts.Therefore i will use 20W for my audit.

I was an electronics technician by trade and therefore very capable of using basic formulae.

 

 

That says a lot. In my experience ELECTRONICS bods are not that good at understanding power engineering. The number of times I have had an electronics "expert" get very concerned that I will kill myself when measuring starter current on 12 or 24 volt systems. They are very good milli amps or micro amps but not so comfortable with several whole fat amps.

 

Now for your calculations to work you need watt hours that you can convert to amp hours. Maybe your meter is giving you watt hours but you have chosen to refer to them as watts. If you understand then its fin for you but it is not fine to come onto a public forum and act in a way that will confuse and misinform less technically competent people.

 

I tried to put things nicely but others have been far more forthright. Now two qualified electrical assessors have told you that you are wrong and at least one other very competent person. Sounds to me like someone is out of step with the band - and it is not me.

 

Taking your figures in post 9. If you want 80 amps over 24 hours you need to supply 80 x 24 = 1920 Amp hours of current. Ignoring a whole host of efficiency and other factors that make such a calculation meaningless and assuming 100% efficiency and TOTAL discharge from 100% charged That is close to a battery bank of 10 x 110 Ah batteries. Assuming a 100% efficient charging system with no drop off as the batteries charge this means a 100 amp alternator will 192 hours to recharge your battery bank. This is clearly nonsense. I think that you have simply failed to use the correct units and are not willing to admit to it.

[talisman]

I said supply 80A in 24 hours ...not for 24 hours i dont own a gin palace.

I can understand the confusion, but my way works fine for me lol.

[Flyboy]

welcome back Sr Nibble, glad to see you cant stay away when needed.

I'll second that. Welcome back.

[Jambo]

 

Well yes, but the OP is quoting watts, not watt hours or some such so has he misunderstood the units, understood the units and has done his own time calculations, or something different.

 

To me the units makes little sense. If he actually means watts then the plates should tell him that.

The plate is useful for an initial ballpark stab but any electronic equipment will usually draw considerably less than what the plate says. Computers usually operate in a low power state when you're browsing or watching a film but if you throw a game or big spreadsheet at it then it'll use a lot more power. With TVs you'd have to crank the brightness way up to get anywhere near the plate value.

 

As it is, watts aren't really that relevant. The more useful measurement is consumption and it's well worth getting a meter for that.

[MtB]

The plate is useful for an initial ballpark stab but any electronic equipment will usually draw considerably less than what the plate says. Computers usually operate in a low power state when you're browsing or watching a film but if you throw a game or big spreadsheet at it then it'll use a lot more power. With TVs you'd have to crank the brightness way up to get anywhere near the plate value.

 

As it is, watts aren't really that relevant. The more useful measurement is consumption and it's well worth getting a meter for that.

 

Possibly, but not necessarily. Total energy consumption over 24 hours is no help when, for example, sizing cables.

 

Nor is the OP calling people who question his dogma, names.

[Tony Brooks]

I would add that as battery performance is very variable across battery types, individual designs under different conditions, different ages, and different charging and discharge currents it is my view "ball park" figures are all that is required. It is even more satisfactory when the figures used are very conservative. The plate data is perfectly adequate for the power audit because it will, in many cases, lead to an over estimation of consumption.

 

It is, again in my view, absolutely no point in getting accurate consumption figures over a few days at one time of year and basing everything else like battery capacity and charging time required on that. The whole power audit and charging calculation thing is nothing more than a rough guide. This is why certain "rules of thumb" actually work fairly well.

 

However this all ignores the major problem with the OP in that he seems to have used the "wrong" units.

 

I am still wondering where he got his solar output figures from. I have a feeling it is the quoted panel rating and if so he is going to end up with somewhat less output than he thinks he will.