Grand Union gear wheel and linkage for sale. Original?

[junior]

Someone on here (Madcat maybe?) was asking about gear wheels and linkages recently. I've tried to find the thread but had no joy, although there seems to have been a few threads on the subject over the years.

 

Anyhow, there is a gear wheel plus linkage for sale on eBay at the moment if it's any use to anyone.

 

http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=321729052584&alt=web

 

You'll have to click the link to see it as i can't copy the photos from the eBay app into a post on here.

[alan_fincher]

Intriguing, and the seller is clearly the owner of ex GUCCCo "Sudbury", a former BBC news reporter.

 

However whilst it may be "GUCC style", it is not an original, or even re-cast GUCCCo wheel, as it lacks the "ahead" and "astern" cast in to it, and is simply not chunky enough. It also seemsd to lack the required "depth"

 

However the bit that is expensive to replicate is not present, namely the casting containing bevel gears that takes the drive through 90 degrees from horizontal along the cabin roof to vertical down towards the gearbox.

 

How you "dent" a cast wheel, (or "fettle" them out}, I'm not sure!

Edited April 20, 2015 by alan_fincher

[The Pipe]

 

How you "dent" a cast wheel, (or "fettle" them out}, I'm not sure!

The term is 'dint' well used in enginering for small nicks etc.

[alan_fincher]

The term is 'dint' well used in enginering for small nicks etc.

 

Oops - I genuinely misread it as dent.

 

Blame my ongoing eyesight issues!

[Bee]

The hand wheel probably comes from some sort of machine, old lathe or something, it has a boss cast into it to be drilled for a handle, as for the rest, don't really know. the proper wheel is not a difficult thing to cast if someone has one to use as a pattern.

[alan_fincher]

The hand wheel probably comes from some sort of machine, old lathe or something, it has a boss cast into it to be drilled for a handle, as for the rest, don't really know. the proper wheel is not a difficult thing to cast if someone has one to use as a pattern.

 

Yes - Brinklow Boats have in the past sold good castings of the wheel - although last I heard had sold the last one they held as "stock". (Possibly they have more by now?)

 

The issue is actually the main mechanism that attaches to the engine room roof. Not perhaps that hard to weld up something that serves the same purpose functionally, but to actually replicate the original item so it looks right, I'm told you are looking at a lot of money.

 

In an ideal world I need this for TWO ex GUCCCo boats, so if anybody is looking at having some made, I would be very interested to see if any economies could be made by making at least 3 sets at the same time.

[Timleech]

 

Yes - Brinklow Boats have in the past sold good castings of the wheel - although last I heard had sold the last one they held as "stock". (Possibly they have more by now?)

 

The issue is actually the main mechanism that attaches to the engine room roof. Not perhaps that hard to weld up something that serves the same purpose functionally, but to actually replicate the original item so it looks right, I'm told you are looking at a lot of money.

 

In an ideal world I need this for TWO ex GUCCCo boats, so if anybody is looking at having some made, I would be very interested to see if any economies could be made by making at least 3 sets at the same time.

 

Alan

Would it really be worth the trouble & expense for you to reproduce the gearing, when neither of your boats has the Bruntons box it was designed for?

 

I imagine that one of the big issues with getting good reproductions made is that a new pattern would be needed for the bracket/gear mount. Even if it were practical to use an original as a pattern, the end result would be too small to properly accommodate standard gears because of shrinkage.

 

Could be an ideal job for a high tech solution, a CMM to measure an original and a 3D printer to make the pattern

 

 

 

Tim

Edited April 20, 2015 by Timleech

[alan_fincher]

 

Would it really be worth the trouble & expense for you to reproduce the gearing, when neither of your boats has the Bruntons box it was designed for?

 

I agree probably not going to be worth a full cast replica, but it would be nice. I believe Fulbourne was reported as having one?

 

However, despite no Bruntons boxes, I would dearly like to have a gear wheel arrangement in each boat, rather than push pull rodding, or any other arrangement.

 

it may be that I have to settle for a well thought out push-pull, but I really do prefer a wheel.

 

The lack of a Brunton box doesn't make it a bad arrangement - the wheel still works very well on boats modified to work the Parsons boxes on Petters, and the Lister Blackstone boxes seem similar enough in their lever requirements that it looks like a good option on them as well.

[RLWP]

 

Could be an ideal job for a high tech solution, a CMM to measure an original and a 3D printer to make the pattern

 

 

 

Tim

 

Polystyrene patterns seem to be the thing at the moment

 

Richard

[David Schweizer]

 

Alan

Would it really be worth the trouble & expense for you to reproduce the gearing, when neither of your boats has the Bruntons box it was designed for?

 

I imagine that one of the big issues with getting good reproductions made is that a new pattern would be needed for the bracket/gear mount. Even if it were practical to use an original as a pattern, the end result would be too small to properly accommodate standard gears because of shrinkage.

 

Could be an ideal job for a high tech solution, a CMM to measure an original and a 3D printer to make the pattern

 

 

 

Tim

 

The shrinkage rate of grey cast iron is about 1%, It is unlikely that you would notice the difference, i doubt that the originals were even made to that tolerance.

[alan_fincher]

 

The shrinkage rate of grey cast iron is about 1%, It is unlikely that you would notice the difference, i doubt that the originals were even made to that tolerance.

 

I may be wrong, but think it has been established in other threads that the originals were bronze.

 

Edited to add: .......or gunmetal, now Tim mentions it!

Edited April 20, 2015 by alan_fincher

[Timleech]

 

The shrinkage rate of grey cast iron is about 1%, It is unlikely that you would notice the difference, i doubt that the originals were even made to that tolerance.

 

I think the originals were gunmetal, or similar.

 

Tim

[David Schweizer]

 

I think the originals were gunmetal, or similar.

 

Tim

 

Fair enough, but the one on ebay is definitely iron (or steel). Casting shrinkage for bronze and other copper based alloys is actually a bit less than ferrous metals, normally less than 1%, so my original observations are still valid.

Edited April 20, 2015 by David Schweizer

[Derek R.]

Another wheel in the hatches - something else to catch your head or shoulder on. Fine if you're young and agile, but . . . .

[David Schweizer]

 

I may be wrong, but think it has been established in other threads that the originals were bronze.

 

Edited to add: .......or gunmetal, now Tim mentions it!

 

I wouldn't beat yourself up over it Alan, the average person would not be able to tell the difference. Bronze is aproximately 88% copper and 12% Tin, wheras in gunmetal about 2% of the tin is substituted by Zinc.

[Timleech]

 

Fair enough, but the one on ebay is definitely iron (or steel). Casting shrinkage for bronze and other copper based alloys is actually a bit less than ferrous metals, normally less than 1%, so my original observations are still valid.

 

That's a wheel. Yes they are originally cast iron. I thought we were discussing the bevel gear mount/bracket, where the dimensions are much more critical.

 

Tim

Edited April 20, 2015 by Timleech

[David Mack]

 

I agree probably not going to be worth a full cast replica, but it would be nice. I believe Fulbourne was reported as having one?

 

 

Tim Wood (now of Wood, Hall & Heward) fitted the national to Fulbourne. I believe the gear wheel is a copy Tim got cast. Where the bronze bracket for the bevel gears came from, I have no idea.

 

The speed wheel was found in the engine room bilge, so is presumed to be original.