Please help save this unique boaters' schoolhouse

[NBTA London]

Please sign this! Its an important and valuable link to Land-Based support for our campaigns! And they are supporting our campaign and engaging politicians on our behalf!. Gotta give back!

 

https://you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/save-hackney-s-early-victorian-old-boaters-schoolhouse?source=facebook-share-button&time=1425160587

[Guest]

Please sign this! Its an important and valuable link to Land-Based support for our campaigns! And they are supporting our campaign and engaging politicians on our behalf!. Gotta give back!

 

https://you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/save-hackney-s-early-victorian-old-boaters-schoolhouse?source=facebook-share-button&time=1425160587

Developed from or for residential use?

 

First line says 'from' last line says 'to'.

 

Which is it please?

[NBTA London]

Oooh, well spotted!

 

 

It's at risk of being turned into flats

[Guest]

Oooh, well spotted!

 

 

It's at risk of being turned into flats

Thanks for clarifying.

 

The thing is that being asked to sign a petition like this, with scant information about how often the building is used now, and what it's future is under its current permissions is nigh on impossible.

 

For all I know sitting 250 miles away its long term future as a structure and a building may very well be better if it was converted to flats or housing. We have close to where I live three former cottage/maternity hospitals dating back nearly as far, that still stand to this day because a change of use to residential was granted.

 

So, sorry but I feel unable to sign.

 

Ed I also think a more useful link would be to the planning application on the correct local authorities web site which is normally where you can leave your views and comments on planning applications. I feel a poorly constructed on line petition will mean not a lot TBH.

Edited February 28, 2015 by MJG

[Tuscan]

Signed

[Guest]

Signed

I have explained why I havent.

 

I'd be interested to know why you have.

[NBTA London]

I take your point. Information is in rather short supply at the moment because this has all happened at very short notice.

 

The schoolhouse is the last remaining original building on a plot of land that has been turned into flats. It was a condition of the planning permission for the rest of the site that this building should be retained as a heritage arts centre, but it seems the freeholder is trying to circumvent that and build flats in its place.

 

The local arts trust has secured funding from the Heritage Lottery Fund in connection with a project to reopen the building as a significant heritage link to the boating people.

 

It's not as if this building doesn't have a future - we believe it has a greater value to the community than it does as a space for yet more flats.

[Guest]

I take your point. Information is in rather short supply at the moment because this has all happened at very short notice.

 

The schoolhouse is the last remaining original building on a plot of land that has been turned into flats. It was a condition of the planning permission for the rest of the site that this building should be retained as a heritage arts centre, but it seems the freeholder is trying to circumvent that and build flats in its place.

 

The local arts trust has secured funding from the Heritage Lottery Fund in connection with a project to reopen the building as a significant heritage link to the boating people.

 

It's not as if this building doesn't have a future - we believe it has a greater value to the community than it does as a space for yet more flats.

Thanks for a bit more info.

[jenlyn]

Signed

[Wanted]

I have explained why I havent.

I'd be interested to know why you have.

I signed it because I think it's important to save the social history of our waterways. If there were any forethought then this could be linked to the canal museum in Kings x as a part of a trail or something.

 

Or, and a radical thought.. Why not use it as a school...

[Guest]

As a matter of interest do we know who the freeholder is?

 

Is it CRT?

[MtB]

This change of use should definitely be stopped. It's not as though the UK needs more any accommodation is it?

 

 

MtB

[Athy]

I am all in favour of preserving our industrial heritage, be it canal-related or otherwise. However, assuming that this building is no longer in use as a school, converting it into a house could be a good thing as it would ensure its continuing survival. Numerous old railway station buildings, for example, as well as some former schools (including one right here in our village) survive because they are now people's homes. Alternatively, perhaps it could find a commercial use, as many former mills have, as well as one of my favourite pubs which used to be Cambridge's tram depot.

I suppose that the ex-school is Grade listed, so the new inhabitants could not knock about or otherwise disfigure the exterior.

This change of use should definitely be stopped. It's not as though the UK needs more any accommodation is it?

 

 

MtB

Of course not. They're all moving on to boats, had you not heard?

[Guest]

Link to Clapton Arts Trust's FB page for any body interested.

 

https://www.facebook.com/ClaptonArtsTrust

 

It refers to a deadline of March 2nd so if people are going to sign there doesn't appear to be much time.

 

Ed. and a link to the actual planning application here-

 

http://planning.hackney.gov.uk/Northgate/PlanningExplorer/Generic/StdDetails.aspx?PT=Planning%20Applications%20On-Line&TYPE=PL/PlanningPK.xml&PARAM0=198941&XSLT=/Northgate/PlanningExplorer/SiteFiles/Skins/Hackney/xslt/PL/PLDetails.xslt&FT=Planning%20Application%20Details&PUBLIC=Y&XMLSIDE=/Northgate/PlanningExplorer/SiteFiles/Skins/Hackney/Menus/PL.xml&DAURI=PLANNING

Edited March 1, 2015 by MJG

[Athy]

Investigation of that link reveals a photo of the former school in use as the premises of an engineering company, a few years ago I assume. So what's the difference between a change of use to commercial premises and a change of use to someone's home? Am I missing the point?

[Guest]

Investigation of that link reveals a photo of the former school in use as the premises of an engineering company, a few years ago I assume. So what's the difference between a change of use to commercial premises and a change of use to someone's home? Am I missing the point?

 

Indeed, particularly when they have captioned the picture "Pic of the Old School Room a few years ago in slightly better days ..." -

 

If they think the building was 'in better days' as a small engineering unit it seems at odds with the concept that the building would be worse off as a result of being turned in residential accommodation. I suspect residents will take more care and pride in the building than a commercial enterprise would have done.

[peterboat]

 

Indeed, particularly when they have captioned the picture "Pic of the Old School Room a few years ago in slightly better days ..." -

 

If they think the building was 'in better days' as a small engineering unit it seems at odds with the concept that the building would be worse off as a result of being turned in residential accommodation. I suspect residents will take more care and pride in the building than a commercial enterprise would have done.

Plus 1 Martin an old chapel near me was used for commercial uses for years and was dog rough now a residence stunning

 

Peter

[Athy]

Plus 1 Martin an old chapel near me was used for commercial uses for years and was dog rough

An appropriate anagram springs to mind.

[NBTA London]

What Clapton Arts Trust are trying to do is preserve an important part of the heritage of the boating community. The schoolhouse is important to us because it catered for the travelling community, and the boating community in particular. I understand that the Heritage Lottery were not particularly interested in preserving a Victorian schoolhouse - it is the link to boating history that sparked their interest and makes this building special.

 

I don't think anybody has suggested that it is currently being used as a school; its use will obviously have changed over time. But we now have a viable plan to preserve it as an asset, one that links the boating world to the land-based one.

 

As I said earlier, this has all happened very suddenly, but I think I can add some more detail (I am getting all this second hand, so some of it may not be precisely correct, but I think I've got the gist). The freeholder was granted permission to develop the rest of the site on condition that the schoolhouse was retained as an arts centre. He was supposed to grant a lease to Clapton Arts Trust to allow them to do that, but appears to have refused to deal with them at all. I understand that he applied for a change of use in 2013 but that application was withdrawn.

 

There have recently been a number of senior personnel changes at Hackney Planning Department. It seems that the freeholder has taken advantage of these changes by re-applying for the change of use, and using a process that gives the Arts Trust very little time to respond to it. The Planning Committee meets on 11th March, and the Arts Trust have to submit any comments by 4th March. That is why their Facebook page asks people to respond by Monday. that is unlikely to be the final decision as the freeholder will still need to apply for planning permission. For that reason, I understand the petition is likely to continue running beyond 2nd March.

 

There are Councillors involved with Clapton Arts Trust. Unfortunately, none of them are on the Planning Committee. And it seems none of them are available to attend the meeting on 11th March because of prior commitments. So much of this has been left in the hands of people who have little or no experience of dealing with planning matters but who have invested a lot of time and effort in a project that now risks being lost.

[Laurence Hogg]

There seems a fundamental couple of errors here.

NBTA use the term "Bargee" which in real waterway terms was and is a derogatory term used by non waterway persons do describe people that lived principly on narrow boats or the former wider beam London area equivalent narrow boat styled craft (12ft ish beam).

 

They are boaters not "Bargees"

 

People who worked the lighters, the day rubbish boats (some Sabey craft etc) lived on the land and were often termed "Bargees", they were also looked down on by the proper boating families and communiuty.

 

NBTA needs to do its homework!

 

The 38 degrees site is captioned "Boaters schoolhouse" but then uses the term "Bargees children"!!

 

It doesn't matter what the building becomes as long as it retains its outward appearance and gets a plaque explaining what it was used for in the past. Often campaigning to keep buildings within the scope of the original use backfires, a really good example is the BCN weighing dock at Tipton, still derelict now and being maintained at the council's expense because one organisation protested so much the developer walked away.

Edited March 1, 2015 by Laurence Hogg

[Guest]

There seems a fundamental couple of errors here.

NBTA use the term "Bargee" which in real waterway terms was and is a derogatory term used by non waterway persons do describe people that lived principly on narrow boats or the former wider beam London area equivalent narrow boat styled craft (12ft ish beam).

 

They are boaters not "Bargees"

 

People who worked the lighters, the day rubbish boats (some Sabey craft etc) lived on the land and were often termed "Bargees", they were also looked down on by the proper boating families and communiuty.

 

NBTA needs to do its homework!

 

The 38 degrees site is captioned "Boaters schoolhouse" but then uses the term "Bargees children"!!

 

It doesn't matter what the building becomes as long as it retains its outward appearance and gets a plaque explaining what it was used for in the past. Often campaigning to keep buildings within the scope of the original use backfires, a really good example is the BCN weighing dock at Tipton, still derelict now and being maintained at the council's expense because one organisation protested so much the developer walked away.

Well it hasn't happened a lot lately but that is something we CAN agree on

[baz gimson]

Tipton is still for sale

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/commercial-property-for-sale/property-46365404.html

[Laurence Hogg]

Tipton is still for sale

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/commercial-property-for-sale/property-46365404.html

Oh yes and discreetly in the description is this: " Technical Information:

 

A ground investigation study is available on request."

 

What that will tell you is there is massive cyanide pollution in and around the gauging house (it was used as a plating factory and you can smell the almond essence in side). Clearance of that will produce a real expensive problem, the original developer was aware of it but other prospective buyers may not be so keen.

[MaryP]

I take your point. Information is in rather short supply at the moment because this has all happened at very short notice.

 

The schoolhouse is the last remaining original building on a plot of land that has been turned into flats. It was a condition of the planning permission for the rest of the site that this building should be retained as a heritage arts centre, but it seems the freeholder is trying to circumvent that and build flats in its place.

 

The local arts trust has secured funding from the Heritage Lottery Fund in connection with a project to reopen the building as a significant heritage link to the boating people.

 

It's not as if this building doesn't have a future - we believe it has a greater value to the community than it does as a space for yet more flats.

 

And there are an enormous number of flats within a couple of hundred yards already. An old wharf has recently been transformed along with old warehouses and factories. This is one of the very few older buildings left - off the Lea Bridge Road next to the River Lea.

[NBTA London]

There seems a fundamental couple of errors here.

NBTA use the term "Bargee" which in real waterway terms was and is a derogatory term used by non waterway persons do describe people that lived principly on narrow boats or the former wider beam London area equivalent narrow boat styled craft (12ft ish beam).

 

They are boaters not "Bargees"

 

People who worked the lighters, the day rubbish boats (some Sabey craft etc) lived on the land and were often termed "Bargees", they were also looked down on by the proper boating families and communiuty.

 

NBTA needs to do its homework!

 

The 38 degrees site is captioned "Boaters schoolhouse" but then uses the term "Bargees children"!!

 

It doesn't matter what the building becomes as long as it retains its outward appearance and gets a plaque explaining what it was used for in the past. Often campaigning to keep buildings within the scope of the original use backfires, a really good example is the BCN weighing dock at Tipton, still derelict now and being maintained at the council's expense because one organisation protested so much the developer walked away.

It's always incredibly difficult posting anything on CanalWorld as NBTA London. Regardless of the subject, there will always be people who just want to argue about the name of the organisation. I didn't choose it. And, for what it's worth, I didn't write the petition either.

 

I don't know what the Shippy People were called by the Housey Folk and I don't really see why it is fundamental to anything. It seems like pointless irrelevant pedantry to me.

 

If it doesn't matter to you what the building becomes, the answer is simple, don't sign the petition. Some people will care, and I think it would be nice if they could sign it.