Red Diesel & Petrol tax question

[Justme]

Hardly a sweeping statement. Just a simple statement of what the regulations say. Twin tank systems are not allowed for road going vehicles. As the device is powered via the vehicles engine/PTO the twin tank could be used whilst on the road. If it had its own engine & fuel system then that would be ok.

 

If you read Excise notice 75 you will see that they are not allowed.

 

Read section 4.2 & 4.3

[Alan de Enfield]

Hardly a sweeping statement. Just a simple statement of what the regulations say. Twin tank systems are not allowed for road going vehicles. As the device is powered via the vehicles engine/PTO the twin tank could be used whilst on the road. If it had its own engine & fuel system then that would be ok.

 

If you read Excise notice 75 you will see that they are not allowed.

 

Read section 4.2 & 4.3

 

But that only applies if those reading the thread actually read (and realise) that the compressor is powered by the Land Rover engine.

 

"a landrover with a compressor running off the pto"

 

Now - if he installs a secondary engine and connects the compressor to that, then he can rub a dual-tank system, however, whilst the Land Rover engine powers the compressor, a twin-tank system would be unlawful

Edited December 29, 2014 by Alan de Enfield

[bottle]

Hardly a sweeping statement. Just a simple statement of what the regulations say. Twin tank systems are not allowed for road going vehicles. As the device is powered via the vehicles engine/PTO the twin tank could be used whilst on the road. If it had its own engine & fuel system then that would be ok.

 

If you read Excise notice 75 you will see that they are not allowed.

 

Read section 4.2 & 4.3

As Alan mentions, I missed the PTO for the equipment.

 

Now you have qualified it. There is not a problem.

 

[Justme]

If it had its own engine it would not be a twin tank system

[craftycarper]

I,m sorry I can't add links etc and can only pass on the info I,m given my landy is 1975 and falls into several catagory,s ie its historic has been registered as an agricultural machine since new and in all honesty even the police don't seem to know what to say when I've been stopped in it, it is tax and mot exempt and costs about a hundred quid a year to insure as a road going vehicle, I have owned it for a long long time and when I first owned it was told it could legally travel on the road using red as long as I traveled less than 25 miles per day, I filled it up in a local garage that had a red diesel pump, filled out a form with my name, address and vehicle details on, until a year or so ago when I was told in the garage that I was no longer allowed to use red to propel mine or any other vehicle along a public highway, if I wished to run my compressor it had to have a separate tank that would switch from red to white when I went on the road,as I don't do many miles in it these days I just use white in it all the time now, there was a letter confirming what the garage guy had told me on the wall from the dvla so I took it as gospel and as I don't do a lot of miles in it never looked any further plus the eu seem intent on ending our use of red altogether anyway so that ended my use of red diesel

[Wanderer Vagabond]

Blimey, what would it be at 100% domestic?

58ppl when I filled up on the 15th December.

 

You have to navigate the delights of Gosty Hill tunnel though to get there and buy it!

 

MtB

Yes, true, but don't you just love a challenge?? As part of the deal I also agree to clear all of the rope,plastic bags,mattresses, etc that seem to accumulate in the tunnel on my way to Hawne .

As a totally irrelevant aside, is it Gosty or Gorsty Tunnel? Both names are on the tunnel entrance but the story I heard is that the hill was so called because it was once covered in Gorse, which may or may not be a fallacy.

[Paul C]

I,m sorry I can't add links etc and can only pass on the info I,m given my landy is 1975 and falls into several catagory,s ie its historic has been registered as an agricultural machine since new and in all honesty even the police don't seem to know what to say when I've been stopped in it, it is tax and mot exempt and costs about a hundred quid a year to insure as a road going vehicle, I have owned it for a long long time and when I first owned it was told it could legally travel on the road using red as long as I traveled less than 25 miles per day, I filled it up in a local garage that had a red diesel pump, filled out a form with my name, address and vehicle details on, until a year or so ago when I was told in the garage that I was no longer allowed to use red to propel mine or any other vehicle along a public highway, if I wished to run my compressor it had to have a separate tank that would switch from red to white when I went on the road,as I don't do many miles in it these days I just use white in it all the time now, there was a letter confirming what the garage guy had told me on the wall from the dvla so I took it as gospel and as I don't do a lot of miles in it never looked any further plus the eu seem intent on ending our use of red altogether anyway so that ended my use of red diesel

 

Sounds like you've been misled in the past by previous advice. Registration type is based on vehicle type approval, one of the conditions of registering as an agricultural vehicle (ie, tractor) is that it has a design speed of 25mph. If it were registered as a tractor, its a mistake.

 

Its quite possible it were registered as a "limited use" vehicle - see https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/360119/V355X1_140714.pdf section 13 for an explanation. Plenty of Land Rovers are registered like this. The main requirement/limitation is that the vehicle can only travel 1.5km on the public roads between parcels of land. I don't know where you got 25 miles/day from.

 

Its not possible it was registered as a historic vehicle - 1975 is too new for this.

[craftycarper]

Sounds like you've been misled in the past by previous advice. Registration type is based on vehicle type approval, one of the conditions of registering as an agricultural vehicle (ie, tractor) is that it has a design speed of 25mph. If it were registered as a tractor, its a mistake.

 

Its quite possible it were registered as a "limited use" vehicle - see https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/360119/V355X1_140714.pdf section 13 for an explanation. Plenty of Land Rovers are registered like this. The main requirement/limitation is that the vehicle can only travel 1.5km on the public roads between parcels of land. I don't know where you got 25 miles/day from.

 

Its not possible it was registered as a historic vehicle - 1975 is too new for this.

. The vehicle was first owned by bristol water at the time I think government owned, so if there are any mistakes in the registration of the vehicle then it would be a bit embarrassing for someone but not me,secondly the vehicle has been in several historic vehicle clubs and shows in the last ten years and always gets lots of interest from the landrover geaks as a bit of an oddity also to qualify for historic free road tax a vehicle now has to be forty years old but was previously 25 as does historic insurance,it is forty from this year and lastly the 25 miles was told to me in the local police station also, although never mot,d must be road worthy and never travel on the motorway, it's taxation class is an agricultural machine , I,m sorry I cant upload pages of legislation which is why I asked in the police station, so I,m rather at the mercy of second hand info but if you can't trust the police and the government guess I'm a bit shafted Edited December 29, 2014 by craftycarper

[Paul C]

. The vehicle was first owned by bristol water at the time I think government owned, so if there are any mistakes in the registration of the vehicle then it would be a bit embarrassing for someone but not me,secondly the vehicle has been in several historic vehicle clubs and shows in the last ten years and always gets lots of interest from the landrover geaks as a bit of an oddity also to qualify for historic free road tax a vehicle now has to be forty years old which it is from this year and lastly the 25 miles was told to me in the local police station also, although never mot,d must be road worthy and never travel on the motorway, I,m sorry I cant upload pages of legislation which is why I asked in the police station, so I,m rather at the mercy of second hand info but if you can't trust the police and the government guess I'm a bit shafted

 

Sounds interesting but a bit a distraction from the main thread, and a bit of an anomoly. Do you have an old tax disc from it, what does it say on that?

[craftycarper]

Sounds interesting but a bit a distraction from the main thread, and a bit of an anomoly. Do you have an old tax disc from it, what does it say on that?

I have every tax disc from new and they all say agricultural machine also miles off track of OP the old tax discs have just been made rather valuable by the new disc free tax system so if you have any hold on to them

[Paul C]

I have every tax disc from new and they all say agricultural machine also miles off track of OP the old tax discs have just been made rather valuable by the new disc free tax system so if you have any hold on to them

 

I'll have a look at what the tax discs for our tractors and telehandlers say tomorrow (if I remember!)

[Guest]

Only in relation to feeding one engine.

 

The system previously described involved a separate tank serving the compressor. Thus there was no connecting pipework to the propulsion engine.

 

George ex nb Alton retired

 

To be fair to HMG, why should I be you ask, many other countries obtain additional revenue from motorists by extensive toll motorway systems which, with one notable failed experiment, we do not do.

 

George ex nb Alton retired

True, but I still don't see why derv is dearer than petroleum in the UK, unlike most other European countries?

[furnessvale]

True, but I still don't see why derv is dearer than petroleum in the UK, unlike most other European countries?

Basically, the UK has a net shortage of diesel compared to continental Europe which has a net surplus.

 

Supply and demand says that they will have cheaper diesel than us, and we have to import refined diesel, at a cost, to make up our shortfall.

 

George ex nb Alton retired

[Guest]

Basically, the UK has a net shortage of diesel compared to continental Europe which has a net surplus.

 

Supply and demand says that they will have cheaper diesel than us, and we have to import refined diesel, at a cost, to make up our shortfall.

 

George ex nb Alton retired

Thanks George, makes more sense now

[Graham Davis]

Do we import much diesel, George?

I understood we produced over 90% of it here?

[furnessvale]

Do we import much diesel, George?

I understood we produced over 90% of it here?

In which case we produce, say, 91% of our requirements and need to import 9%.

 

For the sake of simplicity, a theoretical country that makes 109% of its requirements has a surplus of 9% which it exports to us.

 

Tax issues aside, supply and demand and transport cost says that diesel will be cheaper in the second country.

 

Again theoretical figures, from a mean price of 100, this could mean a price to them of 95 but a price to us of 105.

 

Incidentally, 9% of our demand is an awful lot of diesel.

 

George ex nb Alton retired