Smartgauge " stuck "' at 76

[nicknorman]

Thankyou Nick ,

Just to clarify - the readings i referred to as 12.75 / 80 are the voltage . It was flickering between the two .

Very well , what i shall tomorrow before setting off is to disconnect it by removing both fuses & then replace them . As you say , once reconnected , the gauge should read 75 and i remember this is what happened when i originally installed it . This was explained as its " default " reading whilst it synchronises itself over several discharge / recharge cycles .

So , when i set off it will read 75 & then i ll cruise back to my mooring . This will take around 3 hours .

I expect that it will read 75 for several days .

You are correct to say that there are instructions for resetting the factory settings & i will try that afterwards if necessary .

Thanks again to you all for your assistance . I 'll report back here with the results - good or bad ,

cheers

eta : apologies Cariad , i was typing when you posted . The second pair of hands may be a prob ! I 'll disconnect it & reconnect firstly to see what happens & as i say i ' ll try resetting if that fails .

cheers again

If you turn it off and on again, as we have said it will then read 75%. If you then go cruising for 3 hrs and presuming the alternator is working correctly (battery voltage around 14.4v or more) then I would expect the SoC reading to slowly increase and be at least in the 90s by the end of the 3 hrs. It will only synchronise either when both the gauge and the batteries reach 100% SoC, or during discharge when the actual SoC passes the indicated SoC (which may remain "frozen" during discharge if the batteries are actually at a higher SoC than the gauge is reading, until the actual SoC passes the indicated SoC)

[Detling]

I get the E03 code whenever I use a motor device ie a drill, or vacuum cleaner etc. I think it is due to spikes when you turn the drill off. A bit like a car coil,the back EMF from the motor windings cause a spike over 15V on the 12 Volt supply into the inverter and thus the E03. No harm seems to be done so I just ignore it.

[chubby]

Cheers again Nick

 

No worries . I 'll disconnect , reconnect & then set off . It takes 3 hours or so to get back to my mooring & if the gauge is climbing up into the 80s or 90 s then i ll just carry on going till i get it up to 100 . ... hopefully .

I 'll report the results once i m moored up ,

 

cheers again for all the help

 

ETA : sorry Detling i must ve been typing when u posted . The eo3 error codes a strange one as it seems that folk aren t concerned . When i saw i was " oh for **** s sake , what nooowwww ? so i m glad to hear its nothing to concern myself about ,

 

cheers

Edited December 14, 2014 by chubby

[chubby]

Today i disconnected the smartgauge by removing both the fuses . After a few minutes i replaced them .

It then read C 74 . My cabin batts read 12.7 / 12.8 , flickering between the two . Engine battery read 12.8 .

Four hours cruising today . Checked smartgauge after two hours with engine running . Cabin batts 13.3 . Engine 14.4 .

SOC : 74 . No movement at all . After 12 hours engine running the gauge is now stuck at 74 .

I ve called Merlin 6 times today . No answer & no option to leave a voice message . I m not surprised at this though i am disappointed . I read several smartgauge threads yesterday & at least one , from July this year i think said they don t answer .

Very disappointing really as im now left with a gauge i cant interpret & have real idea of my batteries condition . I m going disconnect it again shortly .

My understanding was that it would return , once disconnected , to SOC 75 so why its suddenly chosen 74 & 76 is beyond me .

[nicknorman]

Today i disconnected the smartgauge by removing both the fuses . After a few minutes i replaced them .

It then read C 74 . My cabin batts read 12.7 / 12.8 , flickering between the two . Engine battery read 12.8 .

Four hours cruising today . Checked smartgauge after two hours with engine running . Cabin batts 13.3 . Engine 14.4 .

SOC : 74 . No movement at all . After 12 hours engine running the gauge is now stuck at 74 .

I ve called Merlin 6 times today . No answer & no option to leave a voice message . I m not surprised at this though i am disappointed . I read several smartgauge threads yesterday & at least one , from July this year i think said they don t answer .

Very disappointing really as im now left with a gauge i cant interpret & have real idea of my batteries condition . I m going disconnect it again shortly .

My understanding was that it would return , once disconnected , to SOC 75 so why its suddenly chosen 74 & 76 is beyond me .

It does seem strange that it went to 74% and I think you only remaining option is to factory reset as we discussed earlier.

 

However can I pick you up on your reported voltage measurements? When you say cabin batteries 13.3 and engine battery 14.4, was this with the engine running, or after you had stopped it? Whilst 14.4 for the engine battery suggests the engine was still running, 13.3v for cabin batteries with the engine running seems very low. If indeed the cabin batteries are only being charged at 13.3v that barely represents any charge and so perhaps not surprising that the SG indication wasn't climbing. Please check that the cabin batteries are in fact being charged properly from the engine. It wouldn't be the first time that the SG has been blamed for what is in fact a fault with the electrical system.

 

Edited to add: do you have a fancy alternator controller device that might decide to switch to a float voltage when the batteries are full?

Edited December 15, 2014 by nicknorman

[chubby]

Cheers Nick .

 

I m not blaming smartgauge of anything really . Its just that im baffled by it & frustrated due my own lack of understanding .

To a div like me it may appear faulty but i actually don t think its faulty but haven t the technical knowledge to ascertain why it hasn t climbed in SOC .? Therefore i m very grateful to all who offer thier knowledge & assistance .

What i ll do right now is start the engine again & recheck the voltages on both banks & i ll put them up here in a short while .

 

cheers again

 

ps . The voltmeter was indicating just past 14 v . Its not a digital gauge so difficult to say accurately

.

cheers

[chubby]

Ok

 

The results :

With engine running but stationary :

Engine battery :14.4

Cabin bank :12.8

 

Voltmeter , as before - needle just past 14 .

 

Now , i m not the sharpest knife in the box it would be fair to say with matters electrical . But Nick says that this voltage reading on the cabin batts is not going to be sufficient & i must be looking at an electrical issue . In my ignorance i thought that 13 + V over approx 12 hours was a decent charge , but its not the case .

Should therefore the same voltage as the starter battery (14.4V ) be the reading on smartgauge for the cabin bank too .

It now would seem that the cabin bank is not receiving sufficient voltage from my electrics & i m guessing that my altenator is where i need to begin .

Fan belt , amount of play , amount of wear . Replace ?

Any suggestions on my next move or what i need to check next .

 

Im not aware of any fancy charging kit lurking beneath my engine covers but im off to have a mooch to see if i can fathom whats down there

 

cheers

[chubby]

Ok

 

Had a mooch around my engine . There are two alternators . One belt . The larger ( physically ) is mounted above the smaller .

When i start engine , within a few seconds the engine battery reading climbs up to 14.4 .

There is no alteration whatsoever on the donestic bank reading .

 

This makes me think that it cannot be a fan belt issue as there is only one & the starter battery is getting 14 + V .

 

Any recommended further checks that i can make

 

Cheers again

[nicknorman]

If you have two alternators:

 

it points to the cabin battery alternator being faulty or possibly some connection issue. But first, rev the engine to say 1200 rpm in neutral just to be sure there is sufficient rpm for the alternator, and check the cabin voltage at that rpm.

 

If the same at 12.8v then there is definitely a charging issue so: what is the behaviour of the the alternator warning lights? They should be on before start with the ignition on, and go out after start. If for example the bulb is blown on the cabin alternator warning light, it will never start charging.

 

With the engine running check the voltage actually at the cabin alternator terminal as well as the batteries, obviously the two voltages should be pretty similar.

 

Ed due to crossed posts

Edited December 15, 2014 by nicknorman

[chubby]

Cheers Nick

 

To be honest i don t know which of the two alternators is for the cabin batts . I ll get out the engine manual to see .

 

I checked what you mention about the light . When i turn the key there is a buzzing sound . A small round orange lamp with a picture of a battery comes on , located next to the ignition ( barrus shire engine & instrument panel ) . On the voltmeter there is on the left hand side , a red bulb . This does not come on when the key is turned & the buzzer is sounding .

When the engine starts the orange circular light with the battery symbol goes out .

The only lights present when the engines running are those that illuminate the dials .

 

i m digging out the engine manuals now ,

 

cheers again

 

ETA : forgot to write . I did as you suggest - started engine. , in neutral & 1200 + revs . Reading was unchanged at 12.8

cteers

Edited December 15, 2014 by chubby

[nicknorman]

The large alternator will be for the cabin batteries. I would expect there to be two alternator warning lights but maybe it depends on which panel you have. Getting out the manual is a good idea.

[chubby]

Cheers Nick .

 

Ive looked thru the manual . I doubt very much that anythings changed with alternators since the boat was built in 2001 . If thats the case then the larger alternator is an 80 amp one for the cabin batts & the smaller is 50 amp for the engine start .

 

The panel has a temp gauge an oil pressure /gauge & a voltmeter . Each gauge has one red bulb located on the left side of each .

 

So the larger alternator is for the cabin batts . Now i m lost as theres wires coming out of it & it all looks very involved .

 

Cup of tea at this point i think

 

cheers

[Tony Brooks]

Chubby, your profile says "south" so can you give us a rough idea of where the boat is. If its close enough to Reading I will happily pop over and take a look for you.

[chubby]

Hello Tony

 

Thats a very kind offer . Very much appreciated . Alas not near Reading im in Uxbridge , but thankyou very much indeed .

 

i think i need to put my scruffs on , roll up my sleeves & dust off my spanners & multimeter & get it fixed . But its all a bit daunting down there & i m lost as to what to check next & how .

Is there a step by step process of elimination ?

 

Whatevers gone wrong , its a recent fault . I check smartgauge each morning & it slowly decreases its SOC reading . Very slowly infact as im very cautious with my power usage . Then every fortnight i go for a cruise for either one long day or for two shorter ones to recharge the batts & because its enjoyable ! Each time i return to my mooring the gauge reads 100 . This is first time its failed to recharge . Its a concern really now as i ve tried to look after the batteries but currently have no way of getting a charge into them ( no 240 v shore line ) until my charging fault has been solved .

 

Cheers again for the offer , i m grateful to you sir

Edited December 15, 2014 by chubby

[nicknorman]

Cuppa - good idea!

 

Normally there are 3 terminals on an alternator, but possibly more than one wire on a terminal. A photo of the back of the cabin alternator would help us to know the type, but in the interim here are some pointers:

 

Normally there is a big terminal with a thick wire which takes the 80A at 14v or so, to the batteries. There may be a second thick wire which is the negative, but more normally the negative return is via the casing. Don't forget to check the voltage on this big terminal with the engine running just to be sure that the problem is with the alternator and not the wiring.

 

The smaller connectors may be marked W and D+ on the casing. The W terminal is connected to the tachometer on the panel. The D+ terminal is connected to the warning lamp and this is the one of interest since if the bulb is blown or the wire disconnected, the alternator won't start to work and yet it is an easy fix.

 

So, with the ignition turned on but engine not running, check the voltage on this terminal. It should be just a few volts, perhaps 2 or 3. If it is zero, the alternator won't start working since this small voltage is required to start the whole process off. If there is a few volts in this terminal and yet the alternator main +ve terminal remains at 12.8v or so when running, the alternator is definitely faulty.

[chubby]

Cheers Nick ,

 

i m going to re read your last post but wanted to mention this .

 

The tacho doesn t work . Is this relevant ?

 

As i say , i ll read again your last post & then head out back with my torch to try and work out whats what ,

 

cheers again for your help

[nicknorman]

Just as a follow up and hoping not to confuse too much, if there definitely is only one alternator warning light for two alternators, these may both be connected to the light via diodes buried somewhere in the back of the panel. That means there will still be one wire for each alternator coming out of the panel, and then routing via a multiway connector that connects all the various bits and pieces on the engine, to the panel.

 

The point of that is that these multiway connectors can be prone to corrosion and thus bad connections, especially if you have a cruiser or semi-trad stern with corresponding relatively damp engine 'ole. Therefore try to locate this multi-way connector, in the vicinity of the engine, and give it a damn good wiggle and poke.

Cheers Nick ,

i m going to re read your last post but wanted to mention this .

The tacho doesn t work . Is this relevant ?

As i say , i ll read again your last post & then head out back with my torch to try and work out whats what ,

cheers again for your help

The tacho is normally fed from the W terminal of the alternator, but which alternator? Normally the engine alternator, but not necessarily I suppose. If the tacho is faulty, that won't bring the alternator down but if the alternator is not working, the tacho won't work either. The pertinent question is at what point did the tacho stop working? Recently, or long before the electrics started playing up?

[chubby]

Cheers Nick

 

Don t worry about confusing me . Im so inept i find it all totally baffling . i expect once i get in there and start checking it might make more sense .

 

So ,

 

The thick wire on the alternator carries 14 + V to the cabin batts . This i test with a multimeter with engine running.

 

The other 2 wires ( i forget what they are for ) i check for a small voltage with the ignition key turned but not with engine running .

 

These are what i shall try to check first .....

cheers

 

ETA : when my engine was serviced in May the mechanic told me it had stopped working but i hadn t noticed so cannot say when it failed .

Edited December 15, 2014 by chubby

[chubby]

Ok

 

I ve had a look . What i see is a mess of wires .

 

There is a very thick red cable . This is connected to the back of the alternator & clamped in place with a bolt . This connection is beneath a black rubber housing . This red cable runs to the + on the battery bank where all other +ive connection are . There is a black cable of equal thickness that is cable tied to the red one . It connects to the -ve side & is connected to the metalwork of the the engine bay adjacent to the alternator .

 

Is this the one i need to test with engine running ? If yes do i just put the red probe on the nut that clamps it to the alternator ? in other words i do not need to undo the nut etc. just expose it from beneath the black rubber protector , connect the red probe & read the multimeter . The black probe i connect to ?? the -ve equivalent where its bolted to the engine housing .

 

The rest is a mess ;

 

Next to where the large red cable bolts onto the alternator are a yellow & white cable , much thinner . These go nowhere . The two wires are tied together & taped up . Thats it . They appear to have no purpose .

 

Then there are two plastic " housings " . One is grey plastic with a clip that you have to push in to release it from the altenator .

 

The other is black plastic with 3 wires exiting it . It is fitted onto the bar thats used to adjust belt tension .

 

Im a bit lost to say the least . Its pretty non sensical unless you know what youre looking at .

 

I don t like to beaten !!!

 

Any of this make sense ?

 

cheers

[nicknorman]

Yes check the voltage between the thick red wire and the thick black wire at the alternator, with the engine running. Don't undo any nuts, just get the meter probes onto the nuts (under the protector for the +).

 

As to the rest, sorry but insufficient info to be much help, however you could try measuring the voltage between each of the smaller wires coming out of the alternator, and -ve. You should be able to do this by poking the red meter probe into the back of the plastic connector where the wires exit, whilst holding the black probe on the big black cable's nut.

 

All this is really to try to prove whether or not the alternator is faulty, or whether it is just a wiring issue. If all the 3 small wires are at zero volts with the ignition on, there is a wiring issue.

Edited December 15, 2014 by nicknorman

[chubby]

Cheers Nick

 

i did think the info was insufficient but couldn t really find a better description .

i shall test the thick cable with engine running. Might be best i try again looking tomorrow but will try to test the thick cable tonight

 

cheers

[Arthur Brown]

As you know that the engine alternator works and charges it's battery to 100% you could fit a jump lead -just one from one battery positive to the other (house to starter) then next cruise the engine alternator would charge both batteries.

 

Before then look for dirty connections and damaged wires.

[chubby]

Ok

so ive turned engine on . Put probes on both those big cables , red & black .

 

Multimeter reads - 12.6 v .

 

so am i to infer that therefore there is insufficient voltage exiting the alternator , though it is functioning ( just not as it should be ) ?

 

Is this the problem or do i need to test other wires ?

 

Am i right to presume that the belt is working as it should because the engine battery alternator is delivering 14 .4 V ?

 

I have a spare new belt . Should i just fit it anyway or will this not worthwhile ?

 

so , i ve got just 12.6 coming out of the alternator to the cabin battery bank . Any recommendations as to the next step as i think that this low reading suggests the alternator is at fault , not wiring etc.?

 

Thanks yet again ,

 

I ve the cuppa . I think a medicinal bacon sandwich now

 

ETA : Sorry Arthur , i must ve been typing when you posted . So i fit a jump lead pos to pos & if i go for a cruise it should recharge my cabin batts .

I feel that regardless of what the eventual problem & solution turn out to be , i need to get charge back into the cabin batts asap really to prevent any further deterioration .

 

Thanks again

Edited December 15, 2014 by chubby

[nicknorman]

Ok

so ive turned engine on . Put probes on both those big cables , red & black .

Multimeter reads - 12.6 v .

so am i to infer that therefore there is insufficient voltage exiting the alternator , though it is functioning ( just not as it should be ) ?

Is this the problem or do i need to test other wires ?

Am i right to presume that the belt is working as it should because the engine battery alternator is delivering 14 .4 V ?

I have a spare new belt . Should i just fit it anyway or will this not worthwhile ?

so , i ve got just 12.6 coming out of the alternator to the cabin battery bank . Any recommendations as to the next step as i think that this low reading suggests the alternator is at fault , not wiring etc.?

Thanks yet again ,

I ve the cuppa . I think a medicinal bacon sandwich now

ETA : Sorry Arthur , i must ve been typing when you posted . So i fit a jump lead pos to pos & if i go for a cruise it should recharge my cabin batts .

I feel that regardless of what the eventual problem & solution turn out to be , i need to get charge back into the cabin batts asap really to prevent any further deterioration .

Thanks again

The 12.6v you are seeing is coming from the cabin batteries, not the alternator. So the alternator is not functioning at all, but the question is why? Internal fault, or wiring issue meaning it's not being initially excited? Hence the need to check the voltage on the small wires with the ignition on.

 

Yes, connecting a jump lead between the positives of the two banks will allow the engine alternator to charge the domestics, albeit on the slow side. Be careful though, if the lead comes off one of the positives and touches the hull, a lot of damage can ensue including a fire. Your batteries seem reasonably well charged at the moment - 12.6v - so I wouldn't rush to charge them.

 

If and when the batteries' SoC drops below 74%, you will probably find the SG reading starts to decrease.

Edited December 15, 2014 by nicknorman

[matty40s]

If it's any consolation, my twin alternator system has worked immaculately forever until the day a few weeks ago when I took my red alternator sparking light out to prove that the Finchers system was potentially working, but not sparking. It proved a point, and the Finchers continued to a mooring where they can do some serious work on the lovely boat.

However,sticking the light back in has not worked, it will not illuminate and I have had to excite the alternator by crossing the wires.

Unfortunately, I have not had time to investigate further.