Landline Socket

[David]

Hi

At the mooring over the weekend one of the other moorer's who has a Travel Power, Iverter Charger and mostly 230v eqipment was telling me he had inadvertantly found the cause of intermitant problems he had been having with the, His words "the Travel power failing or the Inverter failing and when he had them checked (removed and taken somewere) nothing wrong with them".

What he found by accident was the cap which is pushed up over the landline socket which is the standard downward facing type mounted on the outside rear bulkhead, full of water. Since he has let the socket dry out he has had no problem.

As we have no shorepower at the moorings the cap had not been off for many, many months possibly years so maybe worth checking if you have intermitant mystery faults on 230v system.

david

[bottle]

Hi David

 

suggestion for your fellow moorer, ensure the plug is dry and then coat the inside with vaseline.

 

The cap should have a 'seal' perhaps this has failed, also water may be entering via the back of the plug check that the rear is water tight.

 

 

Note: being pedantic 'plugs' have pins, 'sockets' have holes.

 

Hope I am not trying to tell you how to suck eggs.

Edited January 30, 2007 by bottle

[Purple Fairie]

That's good to know, thanks chaps

We don't have a shoreline on our moorings either so the cap hasn't been off since new.

I'll be checking as soon as i get home

 

Sam

[David]

Hi David

 

Note: being pedantic 'plugs' have pins, 'sockets' have holes.

 

Hope I am not trying to tell you how to suck eggs.

 

Hi Bottle

I can only appologise, wrote in a hurry, as we know "Bulbs grow and Lamps glow" etc.

[ChrisPy]

yes, I reported the same problem in my build blog a while ago.

when I complained, the chandler who sold me the 'plug' told me they were intended for caravan use and should be in a locker on the outside of the caravan, and should not be exposed to water. but there was no information on his packaging, and it is a marine chandler.

actually when you inspect them you may conclude they would be safer used upside down - pointing up in the air! The cap actually collects water.

I will use a 4" black drain elbow from B&Q to make a weather cover for mine.

Edited January 30, 2007 by chris polley

[John Orentas]

You can get plugs and sockets suitable for outdoor use. The standard is IP66. Better with some short of shelter though.

[CLIVE AND JUDY]

We had the same problem over Christmas. Solved by making a cover using a 2pint plastic milk

bottle. Just cut off the top and sculpt to fit. We then unscrewed the fitting from the bulkhead a bit and, after putting the new bespoke cover on, did the screws up again.

Result - no interruption to power supply. Cost - zero!

 

We had the same problem over Christmas. Solved by making a cover using a 2pint plastic milk

bottle. Just cut off the top and sculpt to fit. We then unscrewed the fitting from the bulkhead a bit and, after putting the new bespoke cover on, did the screws up again.

Result - no interruption to power supply. Cost - zero!

Oops - forgot to say "turn the milk bottle upside down" but I hope that's obvious.

[DHutch]

I presume your all talking about theses:

http://www.midlandchandlers.co.uk/contenti...ntID~52639.aspx

 

 

What we do, is simply leave the cover off.

- Infact, i never even new they came with a cover till i saw this thread and went to look for a photo.

- Give it an upwards spray of wd40 every 3years and its right as rain. Well, its done the first 15years fine...

 

You do also get as i think john mentioned, ones which screw/lock together, with foam sealing rings.

- The (basicaly) fully compatable with the standard ceeforms, but offer much inproved weather resistance.

 

This is actually a 125amp one, but there are avalaable in 16amp, just very hard to find.

 

 

Daniel

[ChrisPy]

What we do, is simply leave the cover off.

- Infact, i never even new they came with a cover till i saw this thread and went to look for a photo.

- Give it an upwards spray of wd40 every 3years and its right as rain. Well, its done the first 15years fine...

 

Daniel

yes, but it still collects water when the landline is connected ... no?

[magnetman]

How about one of these, like generator sockets with a hinged lid rather than a bowl to collect water:

 

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/WALL-MOUNT-SKT-16A-2...1QQcmdZViewItem

 

edit: IP44 is a bit of a rubbish rating thinking about it. They do one with pins as well as one with holes...

Edited January 30, 2007 by magnetman

[DHutch]

yes, but it still collects water when the landline is connected ... no?

True. However, the like OP, we usally dont have a shoreline pluged in. If you do, the fully waterproof ones are proberbly your best bet.

 

 

How about one of these, like generator sockets with a hinged lid rather than a bowl to collect water:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/WALL-MOUNT-SKT-16A-2...1QQcmdZViewItem

 

edit: IP44 is a bit of a rubbish rating thinking about it. They do one with pins as well as one with holes...

Ive never seen a wall mounted plug (ie, with pins) with a fliptop lid, do you have a link to one?

- And just to doubly state, you COULD NOT not and SHOULD NOT use a socket (as forsale above) for the shoreline input. Very dangerous indeed, but sometimes done.

 

Also, our sockert is actually located under the turned over edge of our "dutch style" stern, and now also covered my the new curtain.

 

Photos:

 

 

Daniel

[Guest]

Drill a 6mm hole in the "cap" at the lowest point.

[alan_fincher]

I'm with Chris on everything I have ever seen about these, (or at least the type that seem to be sold 95% of the time).

 

To me, if you have something like this, (fitted pointing "downwards")....

 

 

then push something like this into it, (or that should probably be ON to it), upwards.....

 

 

there is always a potential problem.

 

Because the outermost part of the socket always goes OVER the plug, and is pointing upwards, it has always seemed to me that most have the potential to fill up with rainwater from the top.

 

As Chris says, when this type is in actual use out of doors, it really does look like they would work a great deal better upside down . I can only assume that the explanation that they are really only meant to be used in a covered location is the correct one.

 

But this is what chandlers invariably seem to sell, and most people seem to put them directly on the back of their boat with no additional weather protection.

 

If there is a version that is completely weathertight, both when you are hooked up, but also when the wall mounted plug needs covering out of use, perhaps some kind soul can post a link to details ?

 

Alan

Edited January 30, 2007 by alan_fincher

[magnetman]

edited

Edited January 30, 2007 by magnetman

[Gary Peacock]

These are what we use HERE

 

You have a bit more work fitting but they don't leak!

[David]

Glad to see everyone seems in agreement on this one that the type of plug (see i can do Bottle) sold most commonly does get water in if not located in a protected place (mine is inside the engine room, and if I conect to it the line comes in through the pidgeon box).

I had just not seen it anywhere as being the cause of problems when trying to use power from a Travel power or inverter on the same circuit and thought it worth a mention.

david

[bottle]

Glad to see everyone seems in agreement on this one that the type of plug (see i can do Bottle) sold most commonly does get water in if not located in a protected place (mine is inside the engine room, and if I conect to it the line comes in through the pidgeon box).

I had just not seen it anywhere as being the cause of problems when trying to use power from a Travel power or inverter on the same circuit and thought it worth a mention.

david

 

Hi David

 

Yes it was worth a mention and I knew you knew the difference, hence the smilies.

 

I only mentioned it in case a 'newbie' saw it and then decided to fit the wrong one.

 

[alan_fincher]

I had just not seen it anywhere as being the cause of problems when trying to use power from a Travel power or inverter on the same circuit and thought it worth a mention.

david

Nobody else has mentioned it, so I'll risk it!....

 

I may be misunderstanding, but if the boat in question has the ability to either run it's 240 volts via a landline, (using the external connector plug in question) OR via an inverter or travelpower, then shouldn't there be some kind of "either/or" switch in there somewhere ?

 

I may be missing something, but if the boat's 240 volt supply is coming from the inverter or travelpower, then I'd have thought that the boats 240 volt electrics shouldn't at the same time be connected to the external plug ?

 

If it were, isn't there the danger of feeding mains from a landline back up the outlet of the inverter ?

 

Perhaps I'm just not understanding the set up. I'm happy to be told I'm talking c**p, if I am!

[Guest]

Nobody else has mentioned it, so I'll risk it!....

 

I may be misunderstanding, but if the boat in question has the ability to either run it's 240 volts via a landline, (using the external connector plug in question) OR via an inverter or travelpower, then shouldn't there be some kind of "either/or" switch in there somewhere ?

 

I may be missing something, but if the boat's 240 volt supply is coming from the inverter or travelpower, then I'd have thought that the boats 240 volt electrics shouldn't at the same time be connected to the external plug ?

 

If it were, isn't there the danger of feeding mains from a landline back up the outlet of the inverter ?

 

Perhaps I'm just not understanding the set up. I'm happy to be told I'm talking c**p, if I am!

While the live pin should certainly be disconnected, the neutral may not be, so you could get a netral earth fault, which will trip an RCD.

[chris w]

While the live pin should certainly be disconnected, the neutral may not be, so you could get a netral earth fault, which will trip an RCD.

 

The incoming neutral will be bonded to earth at the sub-station and the neutral on the boat will be (ought to be!) connected to the hull. An inverter's neutral and earth are usually bonded together too. However, some generators will not tolerate an earth/neutral bond as they have a tapped centre output and can be badly damaged if this happens.

 

Ergo, any mains source selection switching really should switch both the live and the neutral wires (ie: double pole switching).

 

Chris

[Guest]

The incoming neutral will be bonded to earth at the sub-station and the neutral on the boat will be (ought to be!) connected to the hull. An inverter's neutral and earth are usually bonded together too. However, some generators will not tolerate an earth/neutral bond as they have a tapped centre output and can be badly damaged if this happens.

 

Ergo, any mains source selection switching really should switch both the live and the neutral wires (ie: double pole switching).Chris

Definitely, but so often not done unfortunately.

[DHutch]

Nobody else has mentioned it, so I'll risk it!....

 

I may be misunderstanding, but if the boat in question has the ability to either run it's 240 volts via a landline, (using the external connector plug in question) OR via an inverter or travelpower, then shouldn't there be some kind of "either/or" switch in there somewhere ?

Yes, i was going to get into that, but in may haste (should be revising, i forgot, and then the topic was side tracked)

- But it may well be the case that it was an earth/neutral fault, with only live being switch. As the others have mentioned.

- HOWEVER, it could also just be complete and utter fluke, the OP did not rule this out as being other than a vaiable option.

 

 

Daniel

[Keeping Up]

... the neutral on the boat will be (ought to be!) connected to the hull. ...

 

Are you sure this is right?

 

On-board generator neutral to earth and hull - where the generator allows it - I recognise

On-board inverter neutral to earth and hull - where the inverter allows it - I recognise

 

But boat neutral, or shore-line neutral, to earth and hull at the boat, I don't

 

Allan

[chris w]

Whoops, you're quite correct. Thanks for spotting that. I meant the earth should be (ought to be) bonded to the hull (at the risk of starting WWIII). The neutral will be bonded to the hull on an Isolation Transformer set-up and in a conventional shore set-up the neutral is effectively bonded to the hull because the earth and neutral are bonded together at the sub-station or marina source.

 

If someone uses single pole switching of the shore live of course, then the neutral will be directly bonded to the hull through the earth/neutral bond on the inverter and/or generator where these exist. Probably most inverters are wired like this.

 

Chris

Edited January 30, 2007 by chris w

[ChrisPy]

I may be misunderstanding, but if the boat in question has the ability to either run it's 240 volts via a landline, (using the external connector plug in question) OR via an inverter or travelpower, then shouldn't there be some kind of "either/or" switch in there somewhere ?

 

I may be missing something, but if the boat's 240 volt supply is coming from the inverter or travelpower, then I'd have thought that the boats 240 volt electrics shouldn't at the same time be connected to the external plug ?

 

If it were, isn't there the danger of feeding mains from a landline back up the outlet of the inverter ?

haven't tested it yet, but I expect my inverter to do all that for me automatically. Mains supply into the inverter (via an RCBO of course) and 240V out, from inverter or mains, depending on what is connected.