Lister SR3 starter motor

[glitterhotdog]

Hello hello lovely people, and a happy bonfire night to all! ==

 

As is often the case I have spent many an hour scouring the internet and googling like mad over these past few weeks, and I've found some conflicting information, and wondered if any of you kind folks could shed a little light on the matter.

 

I'm trying to get the Lister SR3 going on my 70s Narrowboat, with the assistance of my dad (who is much more au-fait with engine things than me, though his experience is with motorbike and car engines). He's established that the starter motor is knackered, but we're having trouble identifying it. We've taken it to a Lucas-recommended servicing and parts place (SAS motorfactors, Bradford) and they couldn't identify it or get parts to fix it, and we've taken it to Puffer Parts too, with no luck. Collecting it tomorrow.

 

The number on the starter motor is rubbed off at the end so that's no help, but it looks a bit like the Lucas LRS555. So when I finally get round to it...my questions are; is there more than one kind of lister sr3? I have seen some information that suggests LRS555 is suitable for Lister SR3, and some that suggest not. Does anyone have any advice on figuring out what my compatible starter motor options are here, and whether it's anticlock or clockwise?

 

(Ps. Does anyone know where I can find a service manual as all I have is an operation manual? )

 

Many thanks for bearing with my rambly ill-informed queries. ==

[RLWP]

Talk to RCR, they supply reconditioned SR starter motors

 

Richard

[glitterhotdog]

Talk to RCR, they supply reconditioned SR starter motors

Richard

May be a daft question, but... this rcr (http://shop.rivercanalrescue.co.uk/shop/default.aspx)?

[Chris-B]

There are three types

how many holes are there in the bell housing ?

is there a spacer fitted between the starter and the housing ? if so how thick is it

[by'eck]

You can download or view a manual that covers Lister LRM & SRM (marine) 1/2/3 cylinder models here

[glitterhotdog]

You can download or view a manual that covers Lister LRM & SRM (marine) 1/2/3 cylinder models here

 

Hey there,

Thank you very much for this, much appreciated, but this is the Operation Manual (what I meant by instruction manual) rather than the service manual.

 

Does anyone know where I might be able to get hold of the service manual pretty please?

Edited November 6, 2014 by glitterhotdog

[bizzard]

What are the symptoms of the starter motor? Does it do anything at all, like click, screech or groan.

[glitterhotdog]

There are three types

how many holes are there in the bell housing ?

is there a spacer fitted between the starter and the housing ? if so how thick is it

Uhhmmm I can go check, thank you! Engine number is Lister 9870SR20 does that mean anything to anybody?

 

Judging by this: http://www.stationary-engine.co.uk/EngineDating/Dating5.htm I'm guessing

 

9870 = serial number within that year

SR = model number

20 = year of manufacture + 1950, so 1970?

 

So it's a Lister SR3 from 1970?

Edited November 6, 2014 by glitterhotdog

[glitterhotdog]

What are the symptoms of the starter motor? Does it do anything at all, like click, screech or groan.

 

It was turning over a bit, but sounded thoroughly displeased, then the solenoid stopped working and the whatsit wasn't actually moving that piston that engages the teeth. (apologies for probably entirely unintelligible explanation) My dad has had a bit of a play with it and reckons that it sounded like the whole thing was in need of reconditioning or replacing. Tis very old. The engine is still in lovely nick despite a sinking and some neglect, but the electrics are a bit sad looking.

[bizzard]

It might be old but starter motors on boats don't get anything like the use of say that a cars gets. The SR starters are huge for the engine size and capacity and never really under stress.

Firstly I'd eliminate all the battery connections to it by jumping onto it direct with good quality jump leads from a known, good charged up battery.

Secondly there should be a brush gear inspection band at the rear end of the motor which by slackening off the clamp screw can be slid clear to reveal the brush gear. Check the gear by making sure the brushes have a decent amount of carbon brush left and that they are all free to move up and down in their holders, are in contact with the commutator and that non of their little snail springs are misplaced rusted and broken and that the commutator is clean and shiny copper. A good blow out with compressed air is good if you have access to it. Try that for a start.

Edited November 6, 2014 by bizzard

[glitterhotdog]

Correction:

 

Serial: 1431 SR3 23

HP: 19.5 B.S. 649

RPM: 2000

[by'eck]

Correction:

 

Serial: 1431 SR3 23

HP: 19.5 B.S. 649

RPM: 2000

Yes, 1973 SR3 the 1431'st built that year.

 

Regarding the manual, it does cover removing/replacing heads, pistons, con rods mains etc. Not sure how much deeper you can get.

[Alf Roberts]

Hey there,

Thank you very much for this, much appreciated, but this is the Operation Manual (what I meant by instruction manual) rather than the service manual.

 

Does anyone know where I might be able to get hold of the service manual pretty please?

A manual that tells you how to service the crankshaft and has the parts list is about as "service" as it gets, I assume the manual in the post up there is the same as this;

http://www.bluemoment.com/manuals/lister_man.pdf

[bizzard]

I have that manual, well 1029/766. 1966 10/-. Very very little about the electrics for LR' and SR's. just a couple of very basic engine wiring diagrams. The only mention of starter motors is the Prestolite ones. No repair or data for them whatsoever apart from old Lister part no's for them as follows;-- Standard rotation 201-225 or 202-17010. Reverse rotation- 201-15121 or 201-17011.

[glitterhotdog]

This is the starter motor...got some burnt out wires, three places now have failed to identify it or be able to repair, so I've reverted to trying to find out what would be an appropriate replacement.

 

https://www.dropbox.com/sc/tb3c0lb8v7lk7du/AABJFo6jIJFVnFOQAYwbMNbAa

[bizzard]

This is the starter motor...got some burnt out wires, three places now have failed to identify it or be able to repair, so I've reverted to trying to find out what would be an appropriate replacement.

 

https://www.dropbox.com/sc/tb3c0lb8v7lk7du/AABJFo6jIJFVnFOQAYwbMNbAa

Lucas. You shouldn't have any trouble getting someone to recondition it. The only problem they might come up against is the ''pinion-clutch'' unit. If your engine is marine reverse rotation the standard one will not work on it and visa-versa. If the wrong one for your engine is fitted to the starter it will just not engage its clutch and just whizz around without turning the engine. But if your old pinion-clutch unit on your starter is ok and can be used again you should be able to get it reconditioned at any good reconditioner. Visit a vehicle repair garage, motor factors or car spares shop, they should be able to recommend a good starter motor- alternator reconditioner nearby.

Lucy your starter motor does have the brush inspection band on it. I'd slide it away and check it out.

[martyn 1]

Well looking at your pics its a CAV/Lucas M45 type starter motor. which variant and rotation I don't know. But I would go with if your engine is anti-clock rotating it would be a LRS2206 or a LRS555 if its clockwise.

 

LRS2206 here http://www.startermotor-alternator-store.co.uk/lister-petter--3kw-starter-motor--fits-various-plant--agricultural-s2206-4901-p.asp

 

LRS555 here http://www.startermotor-alternator-store.co.uk/lister-david-brown-starter-motor-new-s555-9672-p.asp

 

Both the same starters but opposite rotations. You will need to check the number of teeth on the pinion to make sure they match your existing.

 

Also as bizzard has mentioned these are not hard to get reconditioned so not sure why your having issues.

[Roadsteam]

I would use Autolec services at Rugby myself to recon that.

[Sir Nibble]

I wish I were closer, I'd fix it for you!

It looks like the motor connection on the solenoid is cooked, that is quite likely all that is wrong with it. The numbers you highlight are part numbers for individual components. The number you need should be stamped into the main body of the machine. Look for auto electricians in your area, forget motor factors or garages.

[glitterhotdog]

Lucas. You shouldn't have any trouble getting someone to recondition it. The only problem they might come up against is the ''pinion-clutch'' unit. If your engine is marine reverse rotation the standard one will not work on it and visa-versa. If the wrong one for your engine is fitted to the starter it will just not engage its clutch and just whizz around without turning the engine. But if your old pinion-clutch unit on your starter is ok and can be used again you should be able to get it reconditioned at any good reconditioner. Visit a vehicle repair garage, motor factors or car spares shop, they should be able to recommend a good starter motor- alternator reconditioner nearby.

Lucy your starter motor does have the brush inspection band on it. I'd slide it away and check it out.

Heading back to Boatie now, have printed off yer instructions and going to give it a go. Spoken two motor factors places and a couple of chandleries that supposedly do this sort of thing, but will try looking for a local reconditioner, ta!

 

 

Well looking at your pics its a CAV/Lucas M45 type starter motor. which variant and rotation I don't know. But I would go with if your engine is anti-clock rotating it would be a LRS2206 or a LRS555 if its clockwise.

 

LRS2206 here http://www.startermotor-alternator-store.co.uk/lister-petter--3kw-starter-motor--fits-various-plant--agricultural-s2206-4901-p.asp

 

LRS555 here http://www.startermotor-alternator-store.co.uk/lister-david-brown-starter-motor-new-s555-9672-p.asp

 

Both the same starters but opposite rotations. You will need to check the number of teeth on the pinion to make sure they match your existing.

 

Also as bizzard has mentioned these are not hard to get reconditioned so not sure why your having issues.

Spoken to a bloke at ICS Online LTD about it and he's offered me a new one(same model) for £150 inc delivery, with part ex of old one. Good idea, or is it like giving him an almost-working one for free and buying a working one off him at full price? http://stores.ebay.co.uk/icsonlineltd?_trksid=p2047675.l2563

 

I would use Autolec services at Rugby myself to recon that.

I'm based in West Yorks, bit of a trek. I doubt they'd fancy picking it up, and it'd cost a bomb to post. Anyone know anywhere local?

 

I wish I were closer, I'd fix it for you!

It looks like the motor connection on the solenoid is cooked, that is quite likely all that is wrong with it. The numbers you highlight are part numbers for individual components. The number you need should be stamped into the main body of the machine. Look for auto electricians in your area, forget motor factors or garages.

 

Naww that's a kind thought anyhow! Will give finding an auto electrician another bash before I go down the route of getting a reconditioned one from ICS.

 

Many thanks all for your wonderful advice.

[Timleech]

 

I'm based in West Yorks, bit of a trek. I doubt they'd fancy picking it up, and it'd cost a bomb to post. Anyone know anywhere local?

 

 

 

Not local, but nearer than Rugby -

G E Middleton & Co

City Road

Manchester

 

Tim

[martyn 1]

Spoken to a bloke at ICS Online LTD about it and he's offered me a new one(same model) for £150 inc delivery, with part ex of old one. Good idea, or is it like giving him an almost-working one for free and buying a working one off him at full price? http://stores.ebay.co.uk/icsonlineltd?_trksid=p2047675.l2563

Well considering that both of the links I sent you were for new outright, and from your engine number there is no indication it is reverse rotatation and therefore is the LRS2206 I would say you can do better than that deal as the one I suggested is £165 all in with no exchange and postage included so if you did decide to buy a new one at some point you could get the old one repaired and have a spare.

 

Or the even cheaper option is to find an auto electrician to sort the old one out.