Deciding between two boats....

[Jen_P]

Trying to decide between various options for boat purchase, moorings and so on and am hoping to have made a decision by this weekend and to be on board in a couple of weeks! Finally! Hurrah!

Anyway, just wondering which you'd plump for given a choice...

 

There are two boats, same length, both lovely inside in different ways.

 

One is fairly new - about ten years old. The other is 24 years old.

 

They are similar prices. The one that is 24 years old has had the hull treated with epoxy (see my previous thread). The other seems to have been well-maintained too (but I'm an amateur - what do I know?)

Any thoughts?

They both have what I need really. The older boat is more homely ... but then I'd still want to do things to it to make it mine. The way you do with a house.

[Machpoint005]

Not enough information to help you decide, as there are so many unknowns. However, you would have a job persuading me that I should buy a 24 year old boat when I could get an apparently comparable ten year old boat for the same money. The hull treatment system is a very minor point.

[Southern Star]

I'm sure I've read that boats were built using better quality steel in the 1980s than in the 1990's?

 

My own boat is 27 years old and sailed through the survey on hull and mechanicals, it's early days yet but after 70 engine hours of cruising I haven't found anything wrong which could be said to be age-related.

 

While common sense must play a large part in choosing your boat, there is room for gut reaction too, so I'd suggest you go for whichever one floats your boat, as it were.

[Proper Job]

Only a survey will tell

[Machpoint005]

I'm sure I've read that boats were built using better quality steel in the 1980s than in the 1990's?

 

 

Maybe some truth in that, but I doubt that it was a step change. Good regular maintenance is the key, though, whatever the steel quality. And there is any number of other considerations besides the hull...

As PJ says ...

[Richard Fairhurst]

Who are the builders of each boat?

[bottle]

 

and to be on board in a couple of weeks!

 

Sorry to put the mockers on this but I doubt very much that you will be able to arrange a lift out and survey in that time.

 

You are having an independent survey, aren't you.

[peterboat]

Hi do you have links or names for the 2 boats and where they are for sale? If its Yorkshire and not to far away I could have a look or maybe one of the other members will have a look for you I have 9 years on boats and do my own work so do have a clue what I am looking at others on here do it for a living so give it a whirl

 

Peter

[cherswud]

As well as a survey, get a marine electrician and a marine engineer to check the electrics and the engine, respectively. (And not the ones working at the yard selling the boat.) Reason for the electrician and engineer: A surveyor tells you what is on the boat but not necessarily about the condition of what's there, and if they cannot see it they report what they are told. Surveyors are generally most thorough about the hull though.

[OldGoat]

I find it very frustrating when all manner of folks come on here, putting the barebones of the basis for a question (not unreasonably).

There are so many variables it's virtually impossible to give a definitive answer.

 

Used boats are not like used cars.

Boat building is a craft industry (or was) each one is different, not only that, but new entrants to boating expect the product to be like buying a house or flat.

It isn't.

There aren't any rules.

 

Without knowing anything about either boat, I can only suggest that the older boat may have been built with better care and quality, because life and business was softer then.

 

Later boats generally are built down to a price and perhaps - minimally in features / good practice.

A survey can point out poor quality / bad practice/ hull condition, but not a lot else. A really, really good surveyor could say "it's okay, but I wouldn't do it that way (like the Irish traveller). Everything nowadays has to be sooo PC that you're unlikely to get that sort of advice.

 

I've run out of steam; come back with some detail

• Make
• mechanical details
• what you want the boat to do (even if a static liveaboard)
• what's important to you
• and perhaps, a lot more

A boat is not like buying a piece of furniture / telly...

 

 

 

 

[Southern Star]

^^^ Very sound advice.

 

Perhaps if the OP has internet links to these boats, folk can look at them and say what the good and bad points are for each.

 

I wouldn't personally say that buying a newer boat would always be preferable to buying an older boat, any more than I would say it would be better to buy a house built in 1975 than one built in 1935.

 

But this post does need fleshing out a bit if the OP wants any type of useful help.

Edited October 13, 2014 by Southern Star

[Jen_P]

Hi do you have links or names for the 2 boats and where they are for sale? If its Yorkshire and not to far away I could have a look or maybe one of the other members will have a look for you I have 9 years on boats and do my own work so do have a clue what I am looking at others on here do it for a living so give it a whirl

 

Peter

Thank you, Peter, that's really kind! And your reply reinforces one of the main reasons why I want to buy a narrowboat - it seems like a wonderful community! I've actually moved house to London now so the boats are near there, not in Yorkshire.

 

Sorry if my lack of detail has frustrated some of you!

 

Can't work out how to add links from my phone but one potential boat is Bilbo Baggins at Musk Marine sales in Harefield. it's on Apollo duck. The other boats isn't on there but I'll try to find the spec and post more details.

 

I also like the look of (but haven't seen in person) a boat called Suzanne that's also 50 foot and is being sold by Mercia Marina in Droitwich (typing this from memory as if I flick back to the webpage to check, everything I've typed so far disappears!)

 

What puts me off Suzanne is that she's been on the market for a couple of months. a lot of boats seem to get snapped up straight away. That leaves the beginners like me looking at boats that haven't been snapped up wondering if there's an issue we haven't spotted.

 

I do have a bit of a gut instinct about one of the boats. I know it's different from buying property but when I've done that in the past and followed my gut instinct, it's worked out better. In fact, when I saw one of the boats , I felt like I'd fallen in love! In fact, feel almost afraid to post details on here in case someone else then snaps the boat up from under my nose!

[Black Country Lee]

Linkys...

 

Bilbo Baggins

 

Suzanne

 

HTH

 

Lee.

[Alan de Enfield]

Suzanne will (externally) age much quicker than Bilbo.

 

Red is a terrible colour for bleaching in the sunlight - the surface gets all chalky/white and vey soon you wind up with a 'pink' boat.

 

Photos of red cars or boats can easily be 'fiddled' by giving it a wipe over with baby oil, or even a squirt of water beforehand.

 

Look at it in 'person' before commiting.

[Jen_P]

Ok, thank you. Hadn't thought of that. Red is my favourite colour so I did kind of want a red boat but you've changed my mind.

Other possibility is built by Budge Marine and has a Beta Isuzu 3 cylinder 21hp engine. Even though I'm a girl, I know 4 cylinders would be better.

 

Old Goat asked what did I want to do? And what was important to me?

Initially, I've always thought I just wanted to be in a nice marina with a nice community and that I wouldn't use the boat to cruise much. The closer I get to actually having a boat, the more I realise that although I still want to be in the marina most of the time, I would like to be able to take trips in the boat. I suppose this will depend on my confidence of handling it!

What's important to me is :

 

1. Lots of light - a boat with just portholes wouldn't work! I think I get that seasonal affective disorder thing in winter!

2. A clean boat - a friend and I went to one marina and looked at several of their boats that were for sale and they were filthy and they stank! My friend worked for the council a few years back and had visited flats where people had died and the bodies lain undiscovered for days and even weeks. He said those boats reminded him of those flats! I know I'll clean a boat when I get it (the way you'd clean a house) but I think it's a bad sign if the inside of a boat is so uncared for that it smells and looks dirty. That's surely a sign that the rest of the boat isn't maintained either!
3. Good storage - I like clothes and books. I have already started selling things on ebay and amazon and giving loads to the charity shop so I am downsizing a lot but I would like to have some stuff around me!

4. A nice kitchen. I love cooking and baking. I'd also like room for a freezer too as I like cooking batches of things and freezing them.

5. Being warm!

6. I'd like free-standing furniture - a comfy sofa! I don't particularly like those fitted banquette things or fitted tables although I know they save space. However, I can use a screwdriver so could remove things!

 

In general, I am hoping this move onto a boat will give me a feeling of being "home" and a sense of community.

[RLWP]

Not sure why even a girl would think four cylinders would be 'better' - whatever that means

 

There are a lot of three cylinder engines out there, and two and one cylinder too. All, and the four cylinder ones, are more than adequate for moving the boat. There are advantages to be had from an engine with less cylinders because they don't take up so much room, perhaps leading to a shorter engine bay and more space in the boat

 

Don't let the number of cylinders be a ruling factor in making your choice - otherwise you might end up with a highly inappropriate six or eight cylinder engine

 

Richard

[Jen_P]

Not sure why even a girl would think four cylinders would be 'better' - whatever that means

 

Clearly I've been misinformed by a male!!!!

(That's just a joke by the way - don't all shoot me down!)

[Alan de Enfield]

I seem to remember from a previous thread that you are loking to stay in 'London' - apologies if I am mistaken in this and ignore the following.

 

You are planning to liveboard, you plan to liveaboard in London, you plan to live in a Marina - non of this is impossible - just difficult (and you are doing the 'right thing' by doing it 'legally'.

 

Some years ago, when moorings were hard to find. it was always adivised to find and pay for a moring before you get a boat - times change and there are now many, many marinas with excess capacity (empty berths), but Residential berths are still very hard to find

 

EXCEPT IN LONDON - where they are almost impossible to find.

 

It depends on your definition of 'London' - are we talking Central or 'within the M25' but you will have a difficult job to find moorings the nearer you get towards the centre.

 

In conjunction with your boat search spend as much time loking for a Residential Mooring and hope you find one before you get the boat.

 

I to, doubt you will be living on your boat within 2 weeks

[Jen_P]

I seem to have sorted the mooring issue! But then, I don't want to be in central London.

A couple of marinas have said that I can do pied-a-terre moorings because I will still have a place in Yorkshire and I will be returning regularly due to commitments up here. They also said that if that changes, I might be able to change my pied-a-terre mooring to a residential one.

The boat seems to be the bigger issue for me really - I am anxious to buy the right one and not to get duped into buying a dud! Although is that likely, given that I'll be buying from a marina / brokerage?

[RLWP]

 

Although is that likely, given that I'll be buying from a marina / brokerage?

 

No guarantee I'm afraid - caveat emptor still applies

 

A couple of things.

 

You have some safety nets available to you - getting a survey done on the boat to ensure it's not going to sink and asking advice here. I'm sure someone would come and have a look at a boat with you if you wanted and give a dispassionate view (much easier when you are not buying a boat)

 

And, buying a boat needs a good input of heart, perhaps more than head. For example you could draw up a spreadsheet of criteria with a scale of one to ten, score all the boats you could find on that scale, rate them in the spreadsheet, find there is only one boat that meets all the criteria - and hate that particular boat! You'll be better of having a rough idea of what you want and then going to visit boats - lots of them! That way you'll find what you like and don't like and probably change your mind. This is a Good Thing

 

Richard

[Alan de Enfield]

 

The boat seems to be the bigger issue for me really - I am anxious to buy the right one and not to get duped into buying a dud! Although is that likely, given that I'll be buying from a marina / brokerage?

 

Please dont think that gives you any 'guarantee'

 

Under Section 14 of the Sale Of Goods Act a broker / marina has no responsibilty for the 'merchantability', or 'fit for purpose' criteria that a business selling a boat, which is owned by them, must adhere to.

 

Brokers DONT own the boat (generally) and are only acting as an introductory agency between seller and buyer. You buy the boat at your own risk

 

Caveat Emptor

[Jen_P]

I will definitely get a survey.

If anyone is available on Thursday to come and view 3 boats with me, I'd be very grateful! Two are fairly near Uxbridge and one is a little bit away near Kingston upon Thames. I have a car so will be driving.

But in the meantime, any thoughts from anyone having looked at Susanna and Bilbo Baggins on the web links above?

[RLWP]

But in the meantime, any thoughts from anyone having looked at Susanna and Bilbo Baggins on the web links above?

 

Yes - you are not ready to buy a boat!

 

I have no idea how to objectively separate a Calcutt cruiser stern boat from an Acorn trad stern boat

 

Which one do you like the most?

 

Richard

[OldGoat]

Jennifer, (if I may make so bold), I thought I'd make an effort for you as you are making a sensible effort...

 

I'm not an expert - as are many on here - but on a gut feel I would prefer Susanna because the interior looks nicer but more importantly was built (?) as a private boat, whereas like, and probably is an ex-hire boat. Of itself that should not be a problem, but Calcutt are at the umm- less expensive end of the market, so their vessels are built accordingly. Being on the Thames we use the Oxford canal a lot and Calcutt's boats always seem a bit tired. (I apologise for being less than complimentary especially as that company is well respected in the industry).

 

Having said that some hire companies have well designed and long lasting hulls and often are very good value - if you don't mind a bland interior. As you want to have moveable furniture - that shouldn't be a problem.

 

Might I suggest you contact Teddesley Boat Company, from whom we hired before I built my boat and who have some of their fleet for sale? One of which is a 50 footer with a hull by Les Allen, one of the most respected builders in his time. Clicky here:-

 

http://www.narrowboats.co.uk/index2.htm

 

Not near London, perhaps a bit nearer GOC tha' nows, but worth a conversation at least.

 

Whatever you do - please do a lot of research, take photos of what you like and don't like, so that you can refine your likes and dislikes.

 

Feel free to shoot me down - after all it's my opinion and experience and not authoritative

 

 

 

[Jen_P]

 

Feel free to shoot me down - after all it's my opinion and experience and not authoritative

 

 

 

Why would I shoot you down? That's really kind and useful advice.

I have been looking for absolutely ages and have talked to loads of friends who live aboard and been on their boats. Only recently dared to post on the forum to ask opinions.

I have liked the look of Susanna since I first spotted it (or should you say her?) But the fact that it's been on the market so long, puts me off a bit!