Some new boater questions :)

[John V]

Hi Harry........regarding toilets, whatever type you decide on it is good practice to use shoreside ones as much as possible

(Work, Pubs, cafes libraries...whatever as long as it is not filling up your own!)

[Phil Ambrose]

They are doing something wrong then!

 

Our duvet has never been damp and we are only onboard for 4 or 5 nights a week.

Have to agree, damp was never an issue in all the 10 years we lived on a GRP cruiser.

Phil

[consideringharry]

Wow, lots of answers, thanks ever so much (especially to Athy / Lady Muck - very comprehensive)

Ok, so I'd definitely go for a marina berth and not CC - I don't mind hard work - but I want some electricity / loos / security / internet etc! Might have to be quite far from London realistically, but I'm to and fro from Rugby a lot and you pass tonnes of marinas on the WCML train and you're near Daventry, Braunston, Crick, etc. Being static wouldn't necessarily be a problem to begin with. Those mooring auctions are interesting - not many residential ones though :/ and not many would fit a 70ft boat!!

Have been looking on boatshop24 / boatshed / apollo duck a bit and slightly overwhelmed! I do quite like the idea of a project - as an architect that can't afford a house it'd be good to do a bit of design hence why that wooden butty looked interesting - but I hear the comments about wooden hulls...still appealing tho

One other thing, and maybe not for you canal people I guess- Is a river cruiser on a coastal / river mooring less liveable?! They seem to be a good bit cheaper than narrowboats and a little wider - and they're kinda pretty! And I assume GRP hulls don't give much bother? Things like Bayliners, Sea rays, Princesses etc,. etc. I guess they're less house-like but do you spend a fortune on mechanical maintenance with outdrives, big motors, etc? Am I being influenced by all those millionaires sipping champagne in St Kats!?

[Naughty Cal]

Wow, lots of answers, thanks ever so much (especially to Athy / Lady Muck - very comprehensive)

 

Ok, so I'd definitely go for a marina berth and not CC - I don't mind hard work - but I want some electricity / loos / security / internet etc! Might have to be quite far from London realistically, but I'm to and fro from Rugby a lot and you pass tonnes of marinas on the WCML train and you're near Daventry, Braunston, Crick, etc. Being static wouldn't necessarily be a problem to begin with. Those mooring auctions are interesting - not many residential ones though :/ and not many would fit a 70ft boat!!

 

Have been looking on boatshop24 / boatshed / apollo duck a bit and slightly overwhelmed! I do quite like the idea of a project - as an architect that can't afford a house it'd be good to do a bit of design hence why that wooden butty looked interesting - but I hear the comments about wooden hulls...still appealing tho

 

One other thing, and maybe not for you canal people I guess- Is a river cruiser on a coastal / river mooring less liveable?! They seem to be a good bit cheaper than narrowboats and a little wider - and they're kinda pretty! And I assume GRP hulls don't give much bother? Things like Bayliners, Sea rays, Princesses etc,. etc. I guess they're less house-like but do you spend a fortune on mechanical maintenance with outdrives, big motors, etc? Am I being influenced by all those millionaires sipping champagne in St Kats!?

 

 

 

 

 

 

We dont live full time on our coastal cruiser but it is expensive to keep it in top condition.

 

We have her ashore every winter for between 4-8 weeks to service the drive and polish the hull and apply fresh antifoul paint. On top of that the engine wants servicing every 100 hours or at least annually.

 

That said we find the acomodation onboard very comfortable, we stay onboard most weeks for 4 or 5 nights. Plus you open up a whole range of varied cruising along the UK coastline.

[Dekazer]

Hello all!

 

Well i've had an enjoyable evening having a poke around this forum - what a find!...I'm now giving very serious thought into getting a boat partly to avoid paying an annoyingly high percentage of my wages to rent in London, and also as (virtually) a young architect architect I fancy having a project as given the house price situation in this country I won't be buying one of those anytime soon...not that i'm bitter or anything...also if I boat-it for a few years, i have something saleable at the end, if I go back to land!!

 

I know London moorings are gold dust and pricey when they come up so won't enquire about that - my plan is maybe moor close-ish to London and commute in (i'd have mail sent to the midlands - as I go back weekly for work anyway)- I work remotely and with some flexibility so it should suit. Anyway I have a few questions which are probably covered elsewhere a thousand times but hey...

 

Check out Engineers Wharf, Willow Wren Wharf, Packet Boat Marina, Willowtree marina and High Line Yachting. All within the M25. All have fully residential moorings. Invest in a cheap old bicycle that you don't mind leaving outside the station all day, and commute into London. The benefit of starting off in a marina are numerous. You will have shoreline power, which is a lot easier to manage, and to use power tools for DIY. You may well have a shower/toilet block, which is convenient if you need to repaint a water tank or re-do your plumbing etc. You will have a legitimate address, which will be beneficial for your credit rating in years to come. You will have more security than on the cut, as well as neighbours who may be generous with knowledge and kit. Once you've got the hang of boating (and boating in London) you may choose to move out on the cut, but living on a mooring will give you time to sort out your boat and develop knowledge.

 

- Assume paying for a proper mooring is a whole lot more secure and convenient than 'continuously cruising' - with those costs and power, insurance, licence and maintenance how much reasonably can one expect to pay over the cost of the boat? - assume this is a rough per ft measure? I think i'd worry about security, going on holiday if it was just moored on the canal - I'm generally out in the daytime. How do people find CCing in London - can you find a space!?!

Residential moorings on the outskirts of London will cost you around £5k-£6k per year. Probably less than a flat. I think the consensus on this forum (and certainly my opinion) is that now is not the time to start CCing in London. You'd have better luck cruising between, say, Cowley and Watford and beyond.

 

- Are wooden boats a big no-no? I keep seeing rather charming (often very looooooong) old boats for sale for what seems like reasonable amounts? Do they need taking out the water mega-often? Are GRP boats nasty to live in (I'd also considered something like a bayliner as an option).

I wouldn't advise a newbie to go wooden.

 

- How much is a survey? assume this is a must when buying a boat?

Look to pay a few hundred pounds. If you're not knowledgable, I'd strongly recommend a survey. Choose and commission your own surveyor. We can all advise on good people round the country.

 

- Is a 70ft boat a more pleasant thing to live on than the little ones? Do costs shoot up for the longer boats?

Depends what you like really. My husband and I lived on a 46' narrowboat very happily for 5 years. We always lived on moorings, and usually had some on-shore storage available.

 

- Would 20ish grand get a serviceable boat? I'd have to part finance and assume a bank loan (not marine mortgage) is the easiest option?

Yes, definitely. And put in a low offer when you find a boat you want. If your budget is £20k, look at boats priced up to £25k or more, and make offers, especially as we come into winter, and on boats that have been for sale for a while. In London particularly people are seriously overpricing boats.

 

- Is condensation / cold a problem with living aboard? Any other big issues, assume toilets are one!

Some people get cold and condensation, others don't. If you do things 'properly' you'll be fine. None of us liveaboards abandon ship for the winter because we get chilly However, you must expect to have to work hard and put time and effort into your boat. People who don't are the ones that don't last a season.

 

- I see the odd boat for sale without an engine - are they expensive to install if I wanted to cruise the canals? Can you just bolt an outboard on? As an old car enthusiast I do quite like an engine, I assume all the nice v8 mercruisers are for river and coastal boats and canal boats make do with little teeny things?!

Yes, expensive and difficult. Don't bother, the saving won't be worth it.

Sorry about the essay, any advice would be ace! - thanks for reading

 

Cheers,

 

Harry.

 

 

 

All the above comments are my opinion only, but based on nearly 6 years of living aboard in London. Also, you might like to join the London Boaters facebook group to get a picture of what things are like. You might also look into renting a boat from Black Prince in West London and spending some time cruising East or West to get to know the area. Good luck

[consideringharry]

All very informative and helpful - thanks for taking the trouble this place is very friendly and useful I must say...

[Athy]

All very informative and helpful - thanks for taking the trouble this place is very friendly and useful I must say...

I'm sure I'm not the only one to be pleased that you feel that way - a few people have felt that we can be harsh on newomers and unwelcoming.

 

So, could we have that in writing? Oh, it already is. Ta.

[Ray T]

I'm sure I'm not the only one to be pleased that you feel that way - a few people have felt that we can be harsh on newomers and unwelcoming.

 

So, could we have that in writing? Oh, it already is. Ta.

 

Athy, I too am encouraged with this thread.

 

I feel the difference to others is that the OP showed he had done research before asking questions which may have been asked many times before.

He gave clear statements as to his wants / needs, not leading to any half guessing on subsequent contributors part.

Also he was grateful for any answers and did not cross examine the answer as to its validity or the contributor because it did not fit with preconceived ideas, as some so often do.

 

Constructive all round

Edited September 22, 2014 by Ray T

[Lady Muck]

They are doing something wrong then!

 

Our duvet has never been damp and we are only onboard for 4 or 5 nights a week.

Your cruiser is a world apart from the cruisers I am referring to!

[Phil Ambrose]

Your cruiser is a world apart from the cruisers I am referring to!

Ahem, what about my Broads Tub?

Phil

[consideringharry]

On the subject of cruisers - as it seems a few of you have / have had them - how do they compare from a liveability point of view? Hope no one will raise eyebrows for a non-narrow boat question. They seem cheaper to me and not so narrow also won't you better value off a berthing if they're charged per foot?

Thinking along the lines of:

http://princess.apolloduck.co.uk/feature.phtml?id=367288

or

 

http://searay.apolloduck.co.uk/feature.phtml?id=333870 (i do think Searays of a certain vintage are lovely looking things)

So many things to consider :/ am I better sticking to canals, or could rivers / coasts work too?! Maybe as a stop-gap? AGGGHHH

Though whereas once I was tremendously excited about 5.7 / 7.4 ltrs of petrol engine, I'm now a little terrified they'll go bang.

Edited September 22, 2014 by consideringharry

[John V]

nowt wrong with living on salty water....there are quite a few of us who do

A lot of the same problems apply, finding moorings, type of loos, generating power etc etc

residential moorings are not terribly easy to find on salt water but they are there

BSS and licences are not required which cuts some overheads but insurance is normally required and regular full surveys are the norm

Generally, but by no means universally, diesel is preferred at sea, for inboard engined boats for economy and reliability (high voltage ignition systems are prone to problems from salt and damp) and generally larger engines are required for sea and coastal use

maintenance costs are probably slightly higher and there will be more equipment required than for most canal boats

 

 

eta.........there is probably an even wider variety of vessels used as liveaboards and some can be very large

Edited September 22, 2014 by John V

[consideringharry]

Hmm, thanks - John interesting! So not to be dismissed straight away then, though I guess if it's primarily to live on, it would be a bit wasteful spending so much on the servicing of mechanicals and equipment. It was some kind of cruiser / yacht in Albert Dock that first made me think about boats for living on a few years' back actually - a lovely, lovely thing now for sale, too much for me though http://london.boatshed.com/super_haringvliet_1325-boat-176241.html

Narrow boats look more homely and liveable and more receptive to personalisation, and I presume they're better insulated and easier to heat, etc. Guess I need to research / have a look at both!

[muddywaters]

Harry, to get an idea of what you could expect to get for your money, type "Apollo Duck Narrowboat" into your search engine. This is the largest second-hand narrowboat web site in Britain. You can apply filters, including price. Please note that many, perhaps most, s/h narrowboats sell for less than their asking price, so if you have £20,000 to spend, you could reasonably look at boats up to three thousand pounds more than that.

 

But don't forget that your start-up costs will include a survey (maybe £300, plus charges for pulling the boat out of the water and pushing her back in unless she is on hard-standing), licence (say £600 per year), insurance (probably cheaper than car insurance), mooring fees (file under "piece of string: length of").

 

Go to a marina which has boats for sale (brokerage, we jargoneers call it). In the Midlands, Whilton Marina has the biggest selection, and it's right by the A5. They will allow you to go on board the boats so you can get an idea of what you'll get for a certain price.

 

Boat hunting is FUN!

And time consuming.

And frustrating.

But still fun.

And even more fun if you don't drive, Boy did I have fun getting to Kings Bromley Marina lol

[Athy]

And even more fun if you don't drive, Boy did I have fun getting to Kings Bromley Marina lol

I don't drive either. I recall having much fun getting from East Anglia to Harral Brokerage and back in a day.

[rubblequeen]

Hi Harry

take a look at the Slough Arm the Marina there, near Slough, is right opposite the railway station. A tadge outside the M25 ring o steel but plenty do commute into London from there.. I think it's called Hi Line Marina but not too sure.

Good luck

[Athy]

Perhaps you refer to High Line Marina at Iver - but note that the nearby station is Langley, not Iver.

[consideringharry]

Ah cool - thanks, is that the one kinda near Uxbridge?

[Athy]

It sure kinda is.

[Peter X]

Given everything you and others have said so far, I think a narrowboat based in a marina on the west side of London is for you, to keep your travelling time down and boat costs within your budget. Probably a short-ish one of about 40-45', because many costs rise as the boat gets longer and it sounds as if you can store much of your stuff elsewhere. Also bear in mind, depending on how interested you are in exploring the system, that once you go beyond about 57' you start to exclude certain canals where the locks can't take longer boats.

 

Being based around Rugby, west London is pretty accessible down the M1 or on a train to Watford, and then it's a matter of being able to commute from the marina to wherever you need to get to in London. If you have to work at Canary Wharf for example then that marina that was mentioned in Essex might be a better option, to reduce travelling time. The TFL website is your friend.

 

Whereas if you go for a GRP boat it's either got to be low and narrow enough to fit into the canals, which means you won't get a lot of living space, or you have to moor it on the Thames (not cheap?) or somewhere like the Medway or Essex (cheaper I think, but a long journey from Rugby).

 

This may not be entirely within the rules, but you might be able to get away with having a leisure (i.e. not officially residential) mooring in a marina, especially if your postal address is in Rugby, and you're often away in Rugby and/or the marina owners turn a blind eye. Alternatively, if you're prepared to regularly move the boat every week or two, slowly shuffling up and down the lower GU from perhaps Brentford to Watford, you could maybe CC without suffering as much from overcrowding as the boaters who for various reasons decide to stay in the much sought after Paddington to Hackney area. I should stress this opinion is only based on having read a lot on this forum, there will be others who've done a lot of actual boating in West London who can give more reliable advice.

[Lady Muck]

The only places I've heard where people get hassle for living on Leisure moorings near London is out near Bishops Stortford on the Stort, don't think the local council up there like liveaboards and people have been evicted, other places you 'should' be ok, BUT and this is a big but, you have to understand you will have no security of tenure and can be evicted at any time. So don't plan to remain on a certain leisure mooring as if your life depends on it. You may get moved or asked to leave.

[consideringharry]

Peter X / Lady Muck thanks! Very useful. The comments on location are along what I'd been thinking. It seems pretty rare that suitable boats on suitable moorings come up - I have been looking a little over the months, but not so much in anger as lately! I guess that's why the 70ft butty on mooring was intriguing to me - but I think I've been sufficiently scared off wooden boats (assume that applies to ANY boat and not just canal boats?!), though I do still like it Maybe boat on a leisure mooring in the interim wouldn't be the end of the world. And I can dream of being near Little Venice or in Limehouse in the years to come...