Do I need a VHF radio on the tidal Trent

[Tony Dunkley]

Oh get real.....I've used it many times on this summers trip alone to talk to other vessels....locks....VTS controls.....etc etc. Each one of those calls helped make the passage quicker, easier and safer.

 

As it happens when I met Inland Navigator it was on a sharp bend....without VHF I wouldn't have know it was there until we met on the apex of the bend...but knowing the river like you do you would know that wouldn't you.....

 

As I said you can think what you like but please don't tell people that are asking advice that VHF on the larger rivers isn't needed...your own safety is one thing...giving poor advice to others could possibly end with a fatality.

 

Cheers

 

Gareth

 

If you take a little time to go back and read what I have said so far, you will see that at no time have I said that "VHF on the larger rivers isn't needed" . . . they are your words, not mine. What I have said is that the present absence of commercial traffic from Besthorpe means not having a VHF on the Trent between Cromwell and Keadby doesn't present any real problem, or risk. There are no loaded vessels heading North from Besthorpe to be met by pleasure boats heading South with the flood (as you always will be if you leave Keadby, Stockwith or Torksey at the time you will have been advised to) so there is no problem, or risk. The danger of collisions had used to arise when loaded barges leaving Besthorpe late on a tide grounded while still South of Gainsborough. After getting underway again on the next tide there was a very real possibility of meeting pleasure boats on some of the 'blind' bights from just South of Gainsborough to around Jenny Hurn or Kelfield. The possibility, or danger no longer exists.

 

You seem to derive some kind of peculiar pleasure from talking about poor advice and fatalities, but posting ill informed opinions based on lack of experience and knowledge isn't helpful to anyone. How about either sticking to a subject you know and understand, or doing everyone a favour by keeping quiet instead?

 

PS. You haven't yet said why you passed Inland Navigator to the wrong side near Muskham . . . could it be that you were too busy playing with the VHF instead of thinking about what you should have been doing, or maybe that you just don't know any better?

Edited September 20, 2014 by tony dunkley

[frangar]

If you take a little time to go back and read what I have said so far, you will see that at no time have I said that "VHF on the larger rivers isn't needed" . . . they are your words, not mine. What I have said is that the present absence of commercial traffic from Besthorpe means not having a VHF on the Trent between Cromwell and Keadby doesn't present any real problem, or risk. There are no loaded vessels heading North from Besthorpe to be met by pleasure boats heading South with the flood (as you always will be if you leave Keadby, Stockwith or Torksey at the time you will have been advised to) so there is no problem, or risk. The danger of collisions had used to arise when loaded barges leaving Besthorpe late on a tide grounded while still South of Gainsborough. After getting underway again on the next tide there was a very real possibility of meeting pleasure boats on some of the 'blind' bights from just South of Gainsborough to around Jenny Hurn or Kelfield. The possibility, or danger no longer exists.

 

You seem to derive some kind peculiar pleasure from talking about poor advice and fatalities, but posting ill informed opinions based on lack of experience and knowledge isn't helpful to anyone. How about either sticking to a subject you know and understand, or doing everyone a favour by keeping quiet instead?

Blimey you do get irate when people stand up to you don't you?

 

I'm not getting into a willy waving argument....however if boating for the last 20 odd years and holding professional skippers qualifications means I have a lack of experience and knowledge then so be it....maybe you should take your own advice at some point?

 

Cheers

 

Gareth

[bassplayer]

 

If you take a little time to go back and read what I have said so far, you will see that at no time have I said that "VHF on the larger rivers isn't needed" . . . they are your words, not mine. What I have said is that the present absence of commercial traffic from Besthorpe means not having a VHF on the Trent between Cromwell and Keadby doesn't present any real problem, or risk. There are no loaded vessels heading North from Besthorpe to be met by pleasure boats heading South with the flood (as you always will be if you leave Keadby, Stockwith or Torksey at the time you will have been advised to) so there is no problem, or risk. The danger of collisions had used to arise when loaded barges leaving Besthorpe late on a tide grounded while still South of Gainsborough. After getting underway again on the next tide there was a very real possibility of meeting pleasure boats on some of the 'blind' bights from just South of Gainsborough to around Jenny Hurn or Kelfield. The possibility, or danger no longer exists.

 

You seem to derive some kind peculiar pleasure from talking about poor advice and fatalities, but posting ill informed opinions based on lack of experience and knowledge isn't helpful to anyone. How about either sticking to a subject you know and understand, or doing everyone a favour by keeping quiet instead?

When the big vessels used to work above Keadby, was it protocol to regularly use VHF to report their position? Especially approaching tight bends? Or did they just use horn signals? Being higher up I guess they can see around bends easier and approaching vessels might be able to see them.

 

I remember passing some pretty big stuff in the 80'a when I took a hire boat from Keadby to Cromwell (in one gio). I don't remember the lockies then saying anyting about VHF, they just wanted to make sure we had a chart. We had a 'mobile' phone in the form of a brick but I'm not sure if that would have helped or not!

 

Perhaps H&S has become more of an issue now. I hear arguments whether it's gone too far or not on a weekly basis.

[bassplayer]

...I wonder if ones insurance would be invalidated if an accident occurs on the stretch between Trent Falls and Gainsborough and VHF was not on board ...maybe that's a consideration in this debate..

[frangar]

...I wonder if ones insurance would be invalidated if an accident occurs on the stretch between Trent Falls and Gainsborough and VHF was not on board ...maybe that's a consideration in this debate..

Technically I suspect it might be....I was always taught when I was doing my boating qualifications that when I was stood in front of a board of inquiry would I be happy with the actions I had taken?....hence why I advocate having VHF and other safety kit....then if the worst happens you know you have done everything you can to minimise risk.

 

I agree that everything used to be more carefree...unfortunately now it's not the case....insurance companies love an excuse....I feel it's prudent to take some responsibility yourself before even more rules and regs are forced on us. Sadly I feel if there was a serious incident on ABP waters involving a poorly equipped pleasure craft it may be that they insist on a pilot or similar....I know this would be total overreaction but sadly it seems to be the way of things nowadays.

 

Cheers

 

Gareth

[Tony Dunkley]

Blimey you do get irate when people stand up to you don't you?

 

I'm not getting into a willy waving argument....however if boating for the last 20 odd years and holding professional skippers qualifications means I have a lack of experience and knowledge then so be it....maybe you should take your own advice at some point?

 

Cheers

 

Gareth

 

It's fairly obvious that you don't have any experience or knowledge of the Trent, isn't it . . . willy waving might be a different story altogether.

Edited September 20, 2014 by tony dunkley

[frangar]

It's fairly obvious that you don't have any experience or knowledge of the Trent, isn't it.

As an experienced skipper I'm well aware that as it was my first trip up the Trent this year it was all the more reason to have VHF, Charts etc so that I was aware of hazards both moving and fixed...I tend to find that if you are complacent it's when accidents happen.

 

Cheers

 

Gareth

[john6767]

 

You can do it from the comfort of your own boat - online.

 

http://www.seavoice-training.co.uk/course_details.asp?course_id=24

 

Do you have a licence for the boat ?

Your boat needs to be licenced for having a radio, or if its a hand-held it needs to be licenced to 'you'. (Its free & done online)

 

http://licensing.ofcom.org.uk/radiocommunication-licences/ships-radio/

Whilst the course is online, you still need to attend your chosen training centre for the exam, which is more extensive the previously, as the practical testing was just part of the course before. I think most of the training centres at least do the preparatory work online, so the you can complete the course and take the exam in a single day. It seems bit more involved than is was last year, which was just a day course with a 30 min multi-choice exam at the end, we can blame the EU for that I think. I enjoyed the course, and found it an entertaining day.

[frangar]

Whilst the course is online, you still need to attend your chosen training centre for the exam, which is more extensive the previously, as the practical testing was just part of the course before. I think most of the training centres at least do the preparatory work online, so the you can complete the course and take the exam in a single day. It seems bit more involved than is was last year, which was just a day course with a 30 min multi-choice exam at the end, we can blame the EU for that I think. I enjoyed the course, and found it an entertaining day.

Like most courses it was good to share the experiences of other participants and get the viewpoints of how different vessels used VHF...my course had professional skippers...RIB owners....kayakers....Sailing enthusiasts etc. I think it is more involved now and perhaps more expensive....I would recommend doing some background reading first such as learning phonetic alphabet etc.....one of the first things we were expected to do was introduce ourselves by spelling our name phonetically!

 

Cheers

 

Gareth

[Tony Dunkley]

As an experienced skipper I'm well aware that as it was my first trip up the Trent this year it was all the more reason to have VHF, Charts etc so that I was aware of hazards both moving and fixed...I tend to find that if you are complacent it's when accidents happen.

 

Cheers

 

Gareth

 

That's very true, but it's equally possible for complacency to creep up on folks who begin to think they're not going to suffer any mishaps because they have every possible piece of safety equipment with them. Just think about that in the context of approaching some 'blind' bight in the river and assuming that just because you haven't heard any broadcast from anything coming the other way that you're not going to meet something. VHF is like any other safety aid, used correctly and with a good helping of common sense it can be very useful, sometimes essential, but it's presence can in some circumstances give a false sense of security. So, whether you have VHF or not, it's still best to work on the assumption that when approaching a 'blind' bight you're going to meet something right in it. Sod's Law, and a healthy respect for it, is one of the most useful of all things to have with you.

Edited September 20, 2014 by tony dunkley

[peterboat]

The debate started because the OP was only going as far down as Keadby but everyone agrees VHF is a good thing to have on board anyway.

 

I've got a VHF rig but need to get the licence. Anyone know somewhere I can do this in the Herts/Beds/Bucks area?

The problem is Keadby is below Gainsborough so therefore you are supposed to have VHF at Keadby, However as I said in my first post I have been using the Trent for years even when their was commercial traffic on the Trent, and never knew that I needed VHF and to make it worse no lock keeper ever asked if I had it they just took my mobile number

 

Peter

[Naughty Cal]

The problem is Keadby is below Gainsborough so therefore you are supposed to have VHF at Keadby, However as I said in my first post I have been using the Trent for years even when their was commercial traffic on the Trent, and never knew that I needed VHF and to make it worse no lock keeper ever asked if I had it they just took my mobile number

 

Peter

It isn't the lockies responsibility to ask you if you are aware of what equipment you should have on waterways under another authorities jurisdiction.

[bassplayer]

It isn't the lockies responsibility to ask you if you are aware of what equipment you should have on waterways under another authorities jurisdiction.

...maybe that's convenient for the risk takers but inconvenient for those who want maximum safety and compliance with insurance then...

 

There is a fine balance between risk and safety. I think life was more fun back in the 70s and 80s we could learn from making mistakes but of course that put us under more risk from others mistakes...I suppose we are all different...

[Naughty Cal]

...maybe that's convenient for the risk takers but inconvenient for those who want maximum safety and compliance with insurance then...

 

There is a fine balance between risk and safety. I think life was more fun back in the 70s and 80s we could learn from making mistakes but of course that put us under more risk from others mistakes...I suppose we are all different...

The lockies don't get paid enough to be checking boats equipment and potentially getting into a confrontational situation if a boat isn't carrying the necessary equipment.

 

Why should CRT employees have anything to do with checking for compliance with ABP requirements?

[John V]

There is one thing I cannot find and that is dimensions for ABP requirements. I would not have thought they would be able to enforce a dimension below SOLAS requirements and any way it would be idiotic in the extreme if taken much below that size

[bassplayer]

The lockies don't get paid enough to be checking boats equipment and potentially getting into a confrontational situation if a boat isn't carrying the necessary equipment.

 

Why should CRT employees have anything to do with checking for compliance with ABP requirements?

....I like to believe most people have joined up thinking and care about the big picture as much as themselves...

[Tony Dunkley]

When the big vessels used to work above Keadby, was it protocol to regularly use VHF to report their position? Especially approaching tight bends? Or did they just use horn signals? Being higher up I guess they can see around bends easier and approaching vessels might be able to see them.

 

I remember passing some pretty big stuff in the 80'a when I took a hire boat from Keadby to Cromwell (in one gio). I don't remember the lockies then saying anyting about VHF, they just wanted to make sure we had a chart. We had a 'mobile' phone in the form of a brick but I'm not sure if that would have helped or not!

 

Perhaps H&S has become more of an issue now. I hear arguments whether it's gone too far or not on a weekly basis.

 

Yes it was standard practice, but in the days before VHF it was usual to blow approaching 'blind' bights, particularly if trees and bushes or the height of the land on the ness side prevented seeing the mast or steaming light(s) of something coming the other way. Collisions did happen, those between barges usually resulting in not much more than the odd new dent or two, but the collisions just below Gainsborough between barges coming upriver on the flood and coasters leaving downriver as soon as there was water to float them could be much more serious. The need to get away from Gainsborough as early on the tide as possible in order to have water enough to get back down the Humber on the same tide resulted in the ships having very little depth under them for the first few miles, making steering difficult with a tendency to take violent and uncontrollable shears to one side or the other. In the pile ups that were caused by this the barges generally came off worse, with some of them sinking. While all this was going on there was also the regular scramble of up to about twenty barges (gravellers) leaving Hull and coming upriver on the first of the flood, all pretty well keeping pace with each other and racing to get to either Girton or (old) Besthorpe to load.

Just imagine what some modern day Health & Safety pain in the arse would have to say about it all now . . . . of course we may not have to imagine for very long.

Edited September 20, 2014 by tony dunkley

[peterboat]

It isn't the lockies responsibility to ask you if you are aware of what equipment you should have on waterways under another authorities jurisdiction.

When i first went on the Trent before I was allowed to pass trough they checked we had lifejackets for us all and 2 mobile phones

 

peter

[ditchcrawler]

 

Unlike a phone, VHF is not calling just one person, who may be in a bad reception area, but broadcasts in every direction.

Its a guess - but I reckon the majority of boats on the Trent have VHF so your call being received is much more likely.

 

We have a 15" mag mount aerial on the NB roof - we can transmit and receive about 10 miles radius (so covering 20 miles of river) from anywhere on the river.

Some time ago I was talking to one of the Lifeboat crew at Gt Yarmouth and he was concerned about people relying on phones when coastal cruising, not because the risk of bad phone signals, but once they dialed 999 and got the coastguard they couldn't talk to others to aid their rescue like the boat that was only a mile away etc, Even after the Coastguard did a radio call others could not offer assistance etc.

Edited September 20, 2014 by ditchcrawler