Cruiser vs Trad

[Hairy-Neil]

Tiller strings! - WAY TOO MUCH HASSAL!

 

Not sure how you can go wrong with tiller strings, working boatmen mastered them and managed with nothing more for decades, if not centurys. Please explain your issues.

[WJM]

Choice;

 

1) Spend time setting up tiller strings to prevent tiller snagging

 

or

 

2) Forget about the tiller completely because it will hinge clear of a snag

 

 

Simple enough even for me

 

Remember Murphy's Law - Whatever can go wrong will go wrong

 

- the best systems are based on elegant simplicity

 

 

 

 

(working men never hung lines from the tiller either - at least they didnt after they realised it was just waiting to fall off into the prop)

Edited January 25, 2007 by WJM

[alan_fincher]

2) Forget about the tiller completely because it will hinge clear of a snag

Simple enough even for me

I can see from what I have seen of the design of those hinge things that if you were descending a lock, and the tiller caught something, then it might well hinge harmlessly out of the way.

 

But if you were going up ?

 

(I've seen a boat with a long tiller get it caught in the metal steps of the ladders that have been introduced into lock walls.)

[WJM]

i have never seen ascending as a risk to the tiller - my stern is always near the end of the lock - the ladders are usually centre (or far enough from the ends to pose no risk) - I have never managed to get to a ladder without walking along the roof

 

might be risk for short boats tho

Edited January 25, 2007 by WJM

[alan_fincher]

might be risk for short boats tho

Accepted!

 

In some Grand Union locks, when ascending, I can more or less step off the stern directly on to a ladder, (only if I've allowed the bow right forward up to the cill). But our boat is only 50 feet - I agree anything much more than this, then the tiller probably couldn't end up near most steps.

 

I'm not sure what criteria BW used when they added the ladders to these locks, as some have them positioned quite close to the middle, others with at least one ladder much closer to the lower gates. Most locks have had ladders added both sides, often at different positions, but some locks still have sides where no ladder was ever added, even though there are no obvious space reasons why not.

 

Incidentally, another unrelated hazard that can relate to some of these Grand Union lock ladders, is that at the top, at ground level, part of the construction is usually a cut away flat plate bolted to the ground, that forms the top of the ladder, but also supports the handrails. Quite a few of these base plates extend right to the edge of the coping stones, but the stones are often chamfered or rounded off below them. If a descending boat is being restrained by ropes, (yes I know you don't tie them tightly to a bollard!), it could be remarkably easy for these to get jammed in the tapered gap that exists between these plates and the coping stones. The effect could quite likely be that it got tightened in even harder, and couldn't easily be pulled out.

[WJM]

The Grand Union Locks are a pain! - the ladder tops are big, awkward and in the way - and there is never a bollard in the centre for the centre line - so yes, I always use the stupid ladder top as a makeshift centre bollard - I guess Number Ones never worked the GU after the 1930s modernisation - it is single-handed unfriendly!

[bigjohn]

I have had 2 trads and when I had to choose the stern for my third boat I went for a semi trad.

 

Cruisers are great for larger crews with children,dogs etc because of the space but you obviously lose internal living space so not best for liveaboards or extended cruising. When I was having my 2nd boat built I wanted a semi trad but was persuaded to have a trad with an extra large hatch. That was better but in my view did not solve the main problem with a trad which is lack of room at the stern. My wife was never happy with it and the dog teetered on the edge and went overboard on one occasion!

 

When I went for my next boat I chose a semi trad. It had a large hatch so that I could work in the engine compartment without banging my head and I preferred the extra working space there compared with the trad. We immediately noticed the considerable improvement in standing room when we were cruising as well and people could sit in comfort out of the wind!

 

Looking at the new shells arriving at the boatyard while I was fitting out I noticed more and more were changing to semi trad.

[WJM]

People suggest that a cruiser is great for families and I dont agree - having rented only cruisers for years I went semi-trad when I bought my own boat. If you have children a semi-trad is the only way to go. Being able to lock that back gate while you work a lock makes the whole process so much safer, they just cant get out. Going over the Pontcysyllte Aqueduct on a cruiser last winter was a bit scary - a totally unprotected 100 foot drop!

 

 

 

The other thing I like about the semi shape is that you have some shelter, obviously not as much as a pure trad, but if you plan to use your boat anytime outside of summer you might be glad of the shelter.

[honey ryder]

trad / semi trad/ cruiser....

 

when I was looking for a boat last year ( bearing in mind virtually all the boats ive ever used before were centre cockpit or flybridge cruisers or broads cruisers)

it was a bit of an education. I realised quickly that most liveaboards choose the trad stern because you get more living space, however to make the boat practical it depends on if you have a large front cratch area to give you an area where you can sit outside or hang wet clothes etc.

 

all the boats we chose to look at were trad stern, all basically the same layout with inlne bed at the back, living room at the front with a large cratch area as the main entrance.

 

I never liked the semi trad boats I happened to go and look at, but i think that was more down to layout than anything.

 

when we found the boat we have now, its one of the few cruiser sterns we looked at but because of the layout it really worked for us, having the kitchen at the back means you are never far from food and the back area is an excellent place to sit and eat.

The front cratch acts a bit like a balcony directly from the bedroom.

 

having a cruiser stern means we can sit out together on the back with the dog and steer the boat at the same time. the engine bay has a huge hatch opening which is also very practical but can be a bit drafty being outside. it also gives the dog an area out side he can get to easily and when we block off the small entrance area each side of the stern it means its quite safe to leave him there knowing he cant easily fall in.

 

I definitely didnt worry about the resale value of which kind of stern we ended up with because theres a boat out there for everyone, one mans meat is another mans sausage and all that.

[Bones]

The previous boat I had was a cruiser stern. I now have a trad. I prefer the trad because it isn't so sociable for sitting outside which means I can steer and enjoy the water/wildlife/occassion without having to worry about anyone else. It is also more pleasent to fiddle with the engine in the dry 'zone'. I have a shorter boat than before (its 54 ft rather than 63) and I can use the engine room as a mini workshop/creative zone... although BilgeBoy will know that isn't quite going to happen just yet as its full of wood at the moment! Good job I have long legs!

 

I did think about a semi trad and loved the style, but decided it was quite a waste of space for just me. I can see it would be great if you were sociable and had kids....

[Richard Fairhurst]

I must go back to using the WH Smith reading rooms, far better for the heart.

You could always subscribe.

 

Or alternatively, I usually leave a copy in the Rose & Crown in Charlbury, a much nicer atmosphere than Smiths.

[carlt]

You could always subscribe.

 

Or alternatively, I usually leave a copy in the Rose & Crown in Charlbury, a much nicer atmosphere than Smiths.

Sorry Richard, I can never forgive WW for their 'ten in a toob' article. The magazine has improved no end but the boycott is lifelong.

[Sam]

Trad all the way

[warlock]

I've got to admit to flying in the face of fashion. I want a cruiser, I'm prepared to lose a bit of living space to get a 'balcony'

[Sam]

I've got to admit to flying in the face of fashion. I want a cruiser, I'm prepared to lose a bit of living space to get a 'balcony'

 

I think it is just down to personal taste and needs. for me it is either semi trad and trad.

[Richard Fairhurst]

Sorry Richard, I can never forgive WW for their 'ten in a toob' article. The magazine has improved no end but the boycott is lifelong.

I'm afraid you've lost me there. Can you remind me what it was?

[Chris-B]

I'm afraid you've lost me there. Can you remind me what it was?

 

Ahh the WW goldfish surfaces for air

bloop bloop

[WJM]

Just getting back to the whole point of the thread - the originator was not much asking WHAT we all prefer but WHY we prefer what we do- ie: fortify your responses with useful information so they can learn - and we can all learn!

[Sam]

I like trads because it is going back to the original style of narrowboat.. plus you can escape and steer by yourself and enjoy the scenery and quiet etc.

 

Semi trads are great because they have the enclosed area where family can sit or you can have dogs etc.. without loosing the whole feel of a traditional style narrowboat.

[Hairy-Neil]

I'm not sure what criteria BW used when they added the ladders to these locks, as some have them positioned quite close to the middle,

 

The ladders are not intended for navigation purposes....... They were installed to satisfy health and safety authorities after drownings in locks when the victim had no means of escape.

 

 

Semi trads are great because they have the enclosed area where family can sit or you can have dogs etc.. without loosing the whole feel of a traditional style narrowboat.

 

The whole point of the trad is that you steer from the warmth and safety of the back cabin. To my mind with a semi-trad the feel is lost to all but the onlooker.

[Hairy-Neil]

Choice;

 

1) Spend time setting up tiller strings to prevent tiller snagging.....

 

Tiller strings take all of a second or two to apply. They'll also perhaps prevent the tiller swiping you off the counter....

 

All that said, most modern "trads" have the tiller bar too short to be able to utilise tiller strings....and for that matter, the facility to be able to steer from the safety of the cabin. They are trad in name only.

[tomsk]

MMMMmmm..... Trad

[Sam]

The ladders are not intended for navigation purposes....... They were installed to satisfy health and safety authorities after drownings in locks when the victim had no means of escape.

The whole point of the trad is that you steer from the warmth and safety of the back cabin. To my mind with a semi-trad the feel is lost to all but the onlooker.

 

Your quite right..

That is what I meant by a 'traditional' - because it still looks the same and you don't have a huge stern with railings at the back.

 

The heat and warmth is one of the reasons why I love the trads so much and I really hope our next share boat is one:)

[William Martin]

"The ladders are not intended for navigation purposes....."

 

Have you ever tried single-handing a deep lock without using the ladder provided?

 

 

 

"Tiller strings take all of a second or two to apply"

 

Another thing to remember, just something to go wrong!

Edited January 25, 2007 by William Martin

[Keeping Up]

The ladders are not intended for navigation purposes....... They were installed to satisfy health and safety authorities after drownings in locks when the victim had no means of escape.

True, but if there's a usable ladder where I need to climb up a ladder, then I'll use it. That's one of the great things about boating, you improvise and use whatever comes to hand all the time