Winter Moorings 2014/5

[cotswoldsman]

Winter moorings gs just released looks much the same as last year

 

 

https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/boating/mooring/winter-moorings

[ditchcrawler]

Winter moorings gs just released looks much the same as last year

 

 

https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/boating/mooring/winter-moorings

What about the stoppage list, I thought that was also out but can't find it.

[magnetman]

They still have not realised that they are in fact not legally entitled to take the money

 

Still think i might pay for my cc boat to avoid tickets...

[cotswoldsman]

What about the stoppage list, I thought that was also out but can't find it.

It is out on stoppage page but you have to search each canal individually

They still have not realised that they are in fact not legally entitled to take the money

 

Still think i might pay for my cc boat to avoid tickets...

I must have missed that law or Judgement I guess you have a link to the case or Act of Parliament

[magnetman]

No it was NigelMoore wgo suggested it and he's a god afaics

[cotswoldsman]

No it was NigelMoore wgo suggested it and he's a god afaics

I respect Nigel's well reasoned posts and interpretation of the Law but that is all.they are. I have messaged Nigel myself to get an opinion but that is how I treated it as his opinion that is a long way from being able to say CRT can not charge for Winter Moorings because they are not legal

[magnetman]

Ok

 

Thanks - yes they are handy i have to admit and i am quite happy to pay for it along with the other £11,000 per year I pay to CRT because the canal system needs the money imo.

[cotswoldsman]

Ok

 

Thanks - yes they are handy i have to admit and i am quite happy to pay for it along with the other £11,000 per year I pay to CRT because the canal system needs the money imo.

I would say if you pay CRT £11,000 a year they could at least include you Winter Mooring

[magnetman]

Yes the main bit is a residential mooring in London but i also have a boat which is on a license where i have declardd no home mooring aka a cc license

[Tuscan]

It is out on stoppage page but you have to search each canal individually

I must have missed that law or Judgement I guess you have a link to the case or Act of Parliament

 

Roving Mooring Permits were found to be illegal so what's the difference.

 

Personally I think these are good idea and the only caveat I would have is that they should be restricted outside canal side property.

[cotswoldsman]

Roving Mooring Permits were found to be illegal so what's the difference.

 

Personally I think these are good idea and the only caveat I would have is that they should be restricted outside canal side property.

Roving Mooring Permits were limited to certain areas and only available to a limited number of boaters. To compare RMP to Winter Moorings shows a lack of understanding of RMP also RMP still required boat to move every 14 days WM does not I personally can see no similarity maybe you can tell what I am missing to compare RMP and WM Edited September 1, 2014 by cotswoldsman

[NigelMoore]

Personally I think these are good idea and the only caveat I would have is that they should be restricted outside canal side property.

 

Would I be right in thinking by “canal side property” you meant offside i.e. not towpath? Or do you mean property such as facilities? Or nearby private residences?

 

In cases where CaRT owned the offside, they would be fully entitled to grant and charge for winter mooring permits or any other sort. It is the public towpath that they have no entitlement to remove from public use for the benefit of individuals at a price.

 

Cotswoldsman is perfectly correct that anything I say is only opinion, of course. mayalld also has opinions which should be accorded respect and it is only fair to note that in areas such as this he strongly disagrees with me.

 

However [and the respect between cotswoldsman and I is mutual] the law he has missed is s.43(2) of the Transport Act 1962, which is the Act that governs CaRT’s charging regime. They are expressly NOT exempt “from any local enactment so far as it expressly provides for freedom from charges or otherwise prohibits the making of any charge.”

 

As numerous [previously cited] judgments have confirmed, prior to the ’62 Act, unless an enactment expressly provides for the making of any charge, it effectively “otherwise prohibits” the making of that charge. So unless an enactment somewhere grants any canal company a right to isolate a section of towpath for the exclusive use of only some of their customers, CaRT as their successor are prohibited under the ’62 Act from making a charge for that.

 

What they could be doing is issuing winter-time moratoriums on mooring restrictions, toll-free, for so long as that does not interfere with the visitor mooring needs of the winter cruisers.

 

I don’t wish to belabour the point, because as I have said with respect to both the RMP’s and WMP’s, if boaters are happy – as magnetman says he is - to pay for the freedom from worry, then so long as no-one else’s legitimate needs are compromised, why should they care? Not that anything prevents would-be financial supporters from volunteering funds anyway.

[Tuscan]

Roving Mooring Permits were limited to certain areas and only available to a limited number of boaters. To compare RMP to Winter Moorings shows a lack of understanding of RMP also RMP still required boat to move every 14 days WM does not I personally can see no similarity maybe you can tell what I am missing to compare RMP and WM

Both in my opinion are new versions of the the license that CRT are able to issue boaters either have a home mooring or they don't. On this I suspect we will have to agree to disagree.

Roving Mooring Permits were limited to certain areas and only available to a limited number of boaters. To compare RMP to Winter Moorings shows a lack of understanding of RMP also RMP still required boat to move every 14 days WM does not I personally can see no similarity maybe you can tell what I am missing to compare RMP and WM

Both in my opinion are new versions of the the license that CRT are able to issue boaters either have a home mooring or they don't. On this I suspect we will have to agree to disagree.

[cotswoldsman]

Both in my opinion are new versions of the the license that CRT are able to issue boaters either have a home mooring or they don't. On this I suspect we will have to agree to disagree.

 

Both in my opinion are new versions of the the license that CRT are able to issue boaters either have a home mooring or they don't. On this I suspect we will have to agree to disagree.

I guess we will did not realise a Winter Mooring was a licence or for that matter that a Roving Mooring Permit was a licence. Can you just humour me and explain why a Winter Mooring Permit is a licence. I will be using a Marina while I am in America for 2 months will that also be some new sort of licence, will CRT have to send me a new licence? I am very confused but I must be missing something

[Daiboy]

Having read the above topic replies, this brings me to a question I was going to ask CRT but will ask here first due to the vast experience and knowledge.

 

I am a CC'r with no home mooring and am registered with CRT as such and I have the 007 digits after my licence number. I do keep travelling "onward" during the spring and summer months (bona fide navigation) and have been clocked by numerous CRT gents with their electronic box, but like to spend the winter months in a marina, say October to April with all the amenities.

 

Question; is this against the "law" of CRT or am I ok to pay for the marina charges and be off the grid for those months?

[Tuscan]

I am sorry you are so confused , perhaps you can humour me and explain the legal basis of the winter mooring permit within the current license that CRT is empowered to grant.

[cotswoldsman]

I am sorry you are so confused , perhaps you can humour me and explain the legal basis of the winter mooring permit within the current license that CRT is empowered to grant.

Sorry I think in this instance for you to explain why they are not legal and why I am going to be breaking the law by taking a winter mooring and why those that take a towpath mooring will now have to have some new form of licence as you say a winter mooring is a licence. Could you also explain why a Winter mooring is a licence and not a mooring permit?

Having read the above topic replies, this brings me to a question I was going to ask CRT but will ask here first due to the vast experience and knowledge.

 

I am a CC'r with no home mooring and am registered with CRT as such and I have the 007 digits after my licence number. I do keep travelling "onward" during the spring and summer months (bona fide navigation) and have been clocked by numerous CRT gents with their electronic box, but like to spend the winter months in a marina, say October to April with all the amenities.

 

Question; is this against the "law" of CRT or am I ok to pay for the marina charges and be off the grid for those months?

You will be fine IMO but I am sure Tuscan will explain why it is illegal for a boat without a home mooring to take a mooring during the winter months as I was not aware it was not legal and required a different type of licence Edited September 1, 2014 by cotswoldsman

[jenlyn]

I am sorry you are so confused , perhaps you can humour me and explain the legal basis of the winter mooring permit within the current license that CRT is empowered to grant.

Personally, I don't particularly like the winter mooring permit.

However, given the popularity of them, I see no gain in making any legal issue over them.

Supply and demand and all that.

[Tuscan]

"Bona fide" navigation is required throughout the period of the license . However if CRT wish to relax their enforcement of this condition they can of course choose to do this , it's a shame that they do not do this for all continous cruisers during this period rather than a particular group.

[Daiboy]

"Bona fide" navigation is required throughout the period of the license . However if CRT wish to relax their enforcement of this condition they can of course choose to do this , it's a shame that they do not do this for all continous cruisers during this period rather than a particular group.

 

My apologies Tuscan if this may seem rude. I am not sure if your reply, above, is directed to my post or generally throughout this post. I picked up "bona fide" from my post as being the common denominator. Can you confirm the phrase "this period" as being the winter months and the "particular group" being those, like myself, who want to hide away during winter in a marina where at least one can get some home comforts if one can afford it.

 

If I am being obtuse in this discussion then please set me right, otherwise please direct your comments direct to me, if they actually involve me.

 

Cheers

 

D

[Tuscan]

My apologies Tuscan if this may seem rude. I am not sure if your reply, above, is directed to my post or generally throughout this post. I picked up "bona fide" from my post as being the common denominator. Can you confirm the phrase "this period" as being the winter months and the "particular group" being those, like myself, who want to hide away during winter in a marina where at least one can get some home comforts if one can afford it.

 

If I am being obtuse in this discussion then please set me right, otherwise please direct your comments direct to me, if they actually involve me.

 

Cheers

 

D

Apologies I was replying to Cotswoldsmans post .

 

As far as I'm aware if you book into a marina and notify CRT you cease to have the requirement to cruise "throughout the period of your license" as you now have a home mooring..

[Daiboy]

Many thanks. So now I should be ok for the winter coming. All this does get rather confusing eh!!

[NigelMoore]

Question; is this against the "law" of CRT or am I ok to pay for the marina charges and be off the grid for those months?

 

You are OK.

 

There is absolutely no legal requirement for a CC’er to refrain from taking up any legitimate mooring for any period at all. The only issue is whether the place you are mooring at is a legitimate mooring – if it is, you can stay as long as long as you like, and if, however long you stay there you regard it as only temporary, there is no obligation to temporarily declare it as a home mooring.

 

Especially as you suggest mooring offline in a marina, you will find that CaRT will have no qualms about the arrangement whatsoever.

[Ange]

Roll on 1st November We will happily pay the money and know exactly where we're going.

 

And before anyone starts shouting, it's a bit of towpath with no amenities that's rather pretty, with good parking and not too far from where I'm working and suited us last winter, when there's very little traffic on the canals. When the winter mooring ran out we moved into the marina we're currently inhabiting, but we've just found a reason to look forward to winter - on 1st November we can pay our dues to CRT, leave this rather scarily intimate environment and get ourselves back on the cut - with the bonus of knowing we're paying into CRT coffers rather than the private marina. Win win

 

I dearly hope that load of waffle made sense

 

ETA we have decided to again negotiate the scarey territory that is moving boat and working.

 

The Caldon awaits our visit - I need to check with Moomin Papa to find out where we definitely shouldn't moor but the basin isn't that far from where I work - we'll be there very soon because we were just not made for marina existence

 

Apologies again -- time for bed methinks

Edited September 1, 2014 by Ange

[cotswoldsman]

"Bona fide" navigation is required throughout the period of the license . However if CRT wish to relax their enforcement of this condition they can of course choose to do this , it's a shame that they do not do this for all continous cruisers during this period rather than a particular group.

No wonder I get so confused. As you seem to understand these things far better than I do could you explain what part of "bona fide" throughout the period of my licence I will be breaking? I have done a approx. 600 lock miles during the period of my licence this year. It would help me even more if you could explain to me what is meant by "bona fide" as I am sure that would help me understand why I feel I have complied by the conditions of my licence by doing 600 miles in a 12 month period.