Southern softies heading North - Leeds & Liverpool advice, please.

[alan_fincher]

If that was you guys that came up Marple late on tonight, we're in the Ring O'Bells with George & Irene if you fancy a pint, but understand if you're a bit jaded!

No Brian, 'fraid not.

 

We are stopped just short of the aqueduct.

 

Given how long it took to come up the Ashton, there is no chance we were doing the flight today! (To be honest manchester to top of the flight is more than we would normally attempt in any circumstances - Southern wussies, you see!)

Edited August 17, 2014 by alan_fincher

[NB Alton]

No probs, we'll see you on the locks in the morning, George will be on the Tiller, but it's OK he's not a nob ;-)

[alan_fincher]

No probs, we'll see you on the locks in the morning, George will be on the Tiller, but it's OK he's not a nob ;-)

 

I wasn't going to ask!

[comfortably numb]

Thanks for the link and advice. As well as our 62' length, the boat is a cruiser stern so I will have to ensure all the drainage channels are clear and that the bilge pump is working properly. We have a decent cratch cover for the front so that should keep the majority of the cascading water out. We also have decent wet weather gear including trousers and boots so we shouldn't get too soaked.

 

Hopefully the planned forthcoming winter maintenance that some of you have mentioned will have addressed some of the leaks by the time we're on it next year, and also some of the paddles/winding gear may be easier. I can but hope, LOL.

[RichardH]

Can I suggest you would be far better off bookmarking this >>>http://www.penninewaterways.co.uk/ll/index.htm

 

The canal is not that busy at any time but that depends what part of the canal you are on at the time what length is your boat?

I was in the Garden most of yesterday (Sunday) on the summit of the canal (i.e. one of the most scenic bits) and saw 6 boats moving.

 

I think that rates as quiet

[fanshaft]

Thanks for the link and advice. As well as our 62' length, the boat is a cruiser stern so I will have to ensure all the drainage channels are clear and that the bilge pump is working properly. We have a decent cratch cover for the front so that should keep the majority of the cascading water out. We also have decent wet weather gear including trousers and boots so we shouldn't get too soaked.

 

Hopefully the planned forthcoming winter maintenance that some of you have mentioned will have addressed some of the leaks by the time we're on it next year, and also some of the paddles/winding gear may be easier. I can but hope, LOL.

I have worked and boated on the L&L canal for some 50 years. The lock gates always seemed to leak and maybe always will. I have never really understood why they leak so much more than similar gates on other wide waterways such as the GU - even the GU staircase locks don't leak to the same extent.

I recall I complained about a particularly bad leak on a gate to the now deceased but very knowledgeable Yorkshire foreman Harry Binns (whom I greatly respected) back in the 1970 s. He said 'it's nobbut a pisser'! He was a man of few words.

This is why until the 1980s it was the rule to empty single or staircase bottom locks in Yorkshire (at least) after passing through (by leaving a paddle up) and make sure the top gates go with a good thud because the bottom gates leaked so badly and top gates were not much better. Staircase locks were always left with a paddle open top lock and bottom lock so the lock was always ready for the next boat whichever way it was going. That rule was withdrawn because too many boaters didn't check the lock first and some ended up on the bottom or flooding the towpath.

Regards

David L

[Allan(nb Albert)]

I have worked and boated on the L&L canal for some 50 years. The lock gates always seemed to leak and maybe always will. I have never really understood why they leak so much more than similar gates on other wide waterways such as the GU - even the GU staircase locks don't leak to the same extent.

I recall I complained about a particularly bad leak on a gate to the now deceased but very knowledgeable Yorkshire foreman Harry Binns (whom I greatly respected) back in the 1970 s. He said 'it's nobbut a pisser'! He was a man of few words.

This is why until the 1980s it was the rule to empty single or staircase bottom locks in Yorkshire (at least) after passing through (by leaving a paddle up) and make sure the top gates go with a good thud because the bottom gates leaked so badly and top gates were not much better. Staircase locks were always left with a paddle open top lock and bottom lock so the lock was always ready for the next boat whichever way it was going. That rule was withdrawn because too many boaters didn't check the lock first and some ended up on the bottom or flooding the towpath.

Regards

David L

I remember a L&L trip in a hire boat in the early seventies being followed by a very large lockie on a Honda 50 padlocking gates behind us due to water shortage.

 

However, after a stop for lunch the engine failed to start. Lifting the deck boards (on our cruiser stern) we found the reason was that the batteries were under water. It seems L&L pissers have been around for many years!

 

Incidentally, the hire boat had no bilge pump with the company maintaining that they were not needed because the rear deck was self draining.

 

The word 'pisser' is still in use within CaRT but is generally used to describe leaking from lo ck walls rather than gates.

[Pluto]

I do think that L&LC locks are leaking more now than back in the 1970s, particularly on bottom gates where narrow boats rub against the mitre, though I boated more on the Lancashire, while David (fanshaft) boated in Yorkshire. In the 1970s, it was quite common for the carpenters to run a saw down the mitre to reface the joint, but I suspect health & safety regs now make this a much more difficult job to organise - it's still easy to do, though! The photo below was taken by Edward Paget-Tomlinson in 1959, and shows the leakage typical of L&LC locks at the time. One problem now is that the posts which the balance beam hit when the gates closed have been removed, for Health & Safety reasons. They were quite important for wide locks, ensuring that the mitre always fitted flush, face to face. Without them, the mitre can overlap, which results in rounding of the mitre edges and a shorter gate life and worse seal. The lock sides, off-hand I think the 6th from the top at Wigan, had also just been rebuilt because of subsidence problems. These can distort the lock sides and hence make the gates much harder to open and close, something which anyone using Wigan flight will know about. At one time the top lock had a fall of 15 feet 6 inches, making it the deepest in the country on smaller waterways. The falls on the Wigan locks were altered several times to cope with the variation in lock depth caused by subsidence, which drastically increased water usage.

 

[Guest]

I'm struggling to see what H&S risk those posts posed? Surely no more of a risk than the lock side bollards.

 

But then perhaps that doesn't mean a lot.

 

I'd worry more about impaling my foot with one of those daft retaining spikes on the Wigan flight.

[Pluto]

I'm struggling to see what H&S risk those posts posed? Surely no more of a risk than the lock side bollards.

 

But then perhaps that doesn't mean a lot.

 

I'd worry more about impaling my foot with one of those daft retaining spikes on the Wigan flight.

I believe someone got trapped between the post and beam as a gate slammed shut, with somewhat devastating results. On trip hazards around L&LC locks, I am worried that the few surviving 'starting pins', used for creating a double purchase on a horse's towline to help start boats out of a lock, are disappearing. The two on the lower Barrowford locks were cut off some years ago by someone who didn't understand their relevance, and the one below, at Blackburn, now partly cover with concrete, is the only surviving pin at the upper end of a lock. They only stand about 2 inches high and are on the off side of the lock. There are a couple on the lower ends of two of the locks at Johnsons Hillock. Almost all the others have disappeared, but you can usually see where they have been cut off, once you know where to look.