Scammers!

[hannahlucy]

I have just been approached by what I can only describe as a scammer in regards to selling my narrowboat and wanted to make you all aware that this is happening!

 

I received an email with what appeared to be genuine questions regarding the boat and its condition etc from a gmail.com email account then the next email I received asked me to provide my paypal email address so they could send payment, they were then suggesting that they would arrange for their shipping company to arrange collection once I had received the money...

 

However paypal can freeze payments until a dispute is resolved and if its just your word against theirs you could easily find yourself VERY out of pocket...

 

Needless to say I will not be replying to anymore emails from this person...

 

Please all sellers but aware and vigilant when selling your boat on the internet!

 

 

[Grace and Favour]

This is noit an unknown scam, HannahLucy, but you have done the right thing in being suspicious.

 

On what websites were you advertising?

[Theo]

This is noit an unknown scam, HannahLucy, but you have done the right thing in being suspicious.

 

On what websites were you advertising?

'Twas unknown by me, so thanks for the warning.

 

N

[Athy]

Not necessarily a scam - but you had better stipulate payment by cheque , and await the cheque's clearance before handing over the keys and documents, just to be sure.

[kevinl]

I think when someone says they "would arrange for their shipping company to arrange collection" it's a bit of a give away it's a scam, has anyone ever sold a boat and the buyers shipping company collects?

K

[hannahlucy]

This is noit an unknown scam, HannahLucy, but you have done the right thing in being suspicious.

 

On what websites were you advertising?

 

Apollo duck, gumtree and preloved...

[hannahlucy]

This is noit an unknown scam, HannahLucy, but you have done the right thing in being suspicious.

 

On what websites were you advertising?

 

Apollo duck, gumtree and preloved...

 

I think when someone says they "would arrange for their shipping company to arrange collection" it's a bit of a give away it's a scam, has anyone ever sold a boat and the buyers shipping company collects?

K

 

Mmmm yes, it was a scam... I also said I would only accept bank transfer or bankers draft and they said they can only do paypal - scam everyday!

[Delta9]

It's also worth noting that this scam isn't specific to paypal. Cheques, Bank transfers, debit card transactions etc can all be reversed in the UK.

[Pete & Helen]

Same scam is run with cars, They say they will arrange their agent to collect the car then the agent asks for money up front and the buyer says they will add it later to their payment. Once you send your fee to the agent everyone disappears.

[Paul C]

Paypal --> send item using a tracked courier. Paypal is only suitable for distance trades, it is no use for face-to-face transactions because of the above scams illustrated.

[Delta9]

Paypal --> send item using a tracked courier. Paypal is only suitable for distance trades, it is no use for face-to-face transactions because of the above scams illustrated

Paypal is no use for distance trades either if you are the seller. They always favour the buyer and will perform chargebacks willy nilly.

[peterboat]

It's also worth noting that this scam isn't specific to paypal. Cheques, Bank transfers, debit card transactions etc can all be reversed in the UK.

Just spoke to my better half a bank manager they cant be reversed they have to be claimed back a very different kettle of fish

 

Peter

[John Holden]

Paypal is no use for distance trades either if you are the seller. They always favour the buyer and will perform chargebacks willy nilly.

 

Things might have changed but in the past it was possible for sellers to get acceptable proof of delivery for very little outlay. and keep the buyers money.

[Delta9]

Just spoke to my better half a bank manager they cant be reversed they have to be claimed back a very different kettle of fish

 

Peter

Maybe reversed is the wrong word, but if a cheque turns out to be stolen or fake it will be "reversed" or if the account a bank transfer comes from turns out to be hacked the transfer will be "reversed" (and if it's coming from a scammer it is likely to be fake/hacked). The point being that seeing the money in your account doesn't mean that you haven't been scammed, it could still be taken back out of your account.

[Paul C]

Paypal is no use for distance trades either if you are the seller. They always favour the buyer and will perform chargebacks willy nilly.

 

Not true.

[Pen n Ink]

Paypal is no use for distance trades either if you are the seller. They always favour the buyer and will perform chargebacks willy nilly.

 

Speaking as someone who uses PayPal on a daily basis as a seller accepting payments for my business, I can say that although their treatment of sellers can seem to be a little harsh sometimes, quite patently this statement cannot be true - if it were then businesses such as mine simply wouldn't use PayPal in the first place. We do, after all, have a very wide choice of "merchants" available to us.

 

I think the biggest disadvantage for most boat sellers using PayPal is much more likely to be that the seller would almost certainly run into the not-widely-known payment ceiling limiting the PayPal account; ordinary users are only allowed to put so much through their account in a year without stringent vetting.

[Delta9]

 

Speaking as someone who uses PayPal on a daily basis as a seller accepting payments for my business, I can say that although their treatment of sellers can seem to be a little harsh sometimes, quite patently this statement cannot be true - if it were then businesses such as mine simply wouldn't use PayPal in the first place. We do, after all, have a very wide choice of "merchants" available to us.

 

I think the biggest disadvantage for most boat sellers using PayPal is much more likely to be that the seller would almost certainly run into the not-widely-known payment ceiling limiting the PayPal account; ordinary users are only allowed to put so much through their account in a year without stringent vetting.

I think a lot of businesses only use it because there isn't a decent alternative at the moment. I stopped using them after having multiple problems and if you Google 'paypal problems' you will see that thousands of companies have had problems with them, including several high profile companies. There are multiple sites warning people against paypal, here is one http://www.paypalsucks.com/.%C2'> you are satisfied with their service you are one of the lucky few.

 

The "not widely known" payment ceiling is clearly mentioned on your account and can be removed by sending them a scan of a bank statement and some id. There is no "stringent vetting".

 

Not true.

Great rebuttal. You've convinced me...

[YamYam]

 

 

Great rebuttal. You've convinced me...

[/quote

 

:-) :-) :-)

[Paul C]

 

Great rebuttal. You've convinced me...

 

I don't need to convince you though. Its based on the fact that as an eBat seller, I've "won" a case where a buyer made a claim but I carefully followed the dispute resolution process. So, based on my own experience its not true. And, looking at some of the other posts, they reinforce this. Yes, its biased towards the buyer (the customer is always right.....is a good mantra to use when selling items on eBay) but not 100% in their favour. Possibly you've had a poor experience or have tried selling dodgy stuff on eBay and have lost out.

 

At the end of the day, its a requirement on eBay if you're selling stuff, to accept Paypal as a payment so the logical choice is to not use eBay at all (feel free to use its competitors......oh hang on, they kind of dominate the 'market') or to list everything as cash on collection and severely limit your audience.

[Delta9]

 

I don't need to convince you though. Its based on the fact that as an eBat seller, I've "won" a case where a buyer made a claim but I carefully followed the dispute resolution process. So, based on my own experience its not true. And, looking at some of the other posts, they reinforce this. Yes, its biased towards the buyer (the customer is always right.....is a good mantra to use when selling items on eBay) but not 100% in their favour. Possibly you've had a poor experience or have tried selling dodgy stuff on eBay and have lost out.

 

At the end of the day, its a requirement on eBay if you're selling stuff, to accept Paypal as a payment so the logical choice is to not use eBay at all (feel free to use its competitors......oh hang on, they kind of dominate the 'market') or to list everything as cash on collection and severely limit your audience.

It's great that you are satisfied with their service but plenty of people aren't. Unfortunately your one positive review does not cancel out the thousands of people that have been screwed by paypal.

[Pykebird]

I also had a case on ebay where a seller sent a clearly damaged phone. I went through all the procedures they insisted, including sending the phone back. Although it was sent registered, the post office "lost"it. The seller denied receiving it and eventually pay pal closed the case.

I then had to claim off the post office who eventually sent me cheque for over a £100 less than I had paid, great!

[Paul C]

It's great that you are satisfied with their service but plenty of people aren't. Unfortunately your one positive review does not cancel out the thousands of people that have been screwed by paypal.

 

2 points:

 

1) Its not 1-1000 ratio though. I dare say its not 50-50 but I'm confident its certainly not 1000/1 in favour of the buyer.

2) Its not paypal who "screw" people, they are merely an intermediary and whilst they can "hold" payments, they can't do it for ever (7 days max, I think?) and then once held, it either goes to the buyer or the seller. It would be more accurate to say that buyers can screw sellers via Paypal, but since there is a defined procedure for disputes, its hard to see how a buyer can take advantage of this in their favour unless the seller is either wrong, dim-witted, careless or lazy.

I also had a case on ebay where a seller sent a clearly damaged phone. I went through all the procedures they insisted, including sending the phone back. Although it was sent registered, the post office "lost"it. The seller denied receiving it and eventually pay pal closed the case.

I then had to claim off the post office who eventually sent me cheque for over a £100 less than I had paid, great!

 

eBay/Paypal disputes require tracked courier delivery. Post Office standard insurance amount for loss is quite low, but you can buy extra insurance if you can't afford to bear the loss of the difference.

[Delta9]

 

2 points:

 

1) Its not 1-1000 ratio though. I dare say its not 50-50 but I'm confident its certainly not 1000/1 in favour of the buyer.

2) Its not paypal who "screw" people, they are merely an intermediary and whilst they can "hold" payments, they can't do it for ever (7 days max, I think?) and then once held, it either goes to the buyer or the seller. It would be more accurate to say that buyers can screw sellers via Paypal, but since there is a defined procedure for disputes, its hard to see how a buyer can take advantage of this in their favour unless the seller is either wrong, dim-witted, careless or lazy.

 

 

1) Even if it's 50/50 or 25/75 they still have a huge amount of dissatisfied customers and regularly screw over honest businesses. Just google it and read all of the horror stories. In my view that doesn't make them very useful as there is a high chance you will have problems.

 

2) Paypal can and do regularly "freeze" accounts and make it virtually impossible for the owner to retrieve their funds. Again, just google it and you will see tons of horror stories.

[Paul C]

Ok I think we'll need to agree to disagree - you've had a bad experience, I've had a good experience with Paypal.

[MtB]

If as a selling business you use PayPal you need to view it dispassionately and accept that once in a while a buyer will screw you over. Most buyers are honest but not all.

 

Build it into your business plan and don't lose sleep over it.

 

 

MtB