Battery Charging

[William Martin]

A quick question -

 

I recently noticed a boat opposite me charging its batteries by running the engine - I presume that is what it was doing because it has been there for a while and there is no mains supply there. What puzzled me was that it was left in gear - driving against the moorings and throwing a spout into the cut (if not sucking a hole in the bank)

 

Why would it be left in gear like this?

[NB Phoenix]

A quick question -

 

I recently noticed a boat opposite me charging its batteries by running the engine - I presume that is what it was doing because it has been there for a while and there is no mains supply there. What puzzled me was that it was left in gear - driving against the moorings and throwing a spout into the cut (if not sucking a hole in the bank)

 

Why would it be left in gear like this?

 

It puts a load on the engine, diesels work better under load.

 

 

Edit to add.......... I Think.

Edited December 20, 2006 by NB Phoenix

[chris w]

Because if you run a diesel engine on light load regularly (ie: out of gear), the engine never gets up to its proper working temperature and this can lead to glazing of the cylinder bores and consequent problems.

Using an API CC oil is supposed to counter this, but I checked with Isuzu (who specify API CC) oil and they told me only to run it out of gear to charge the battery as a final measure.

 

BW (and most of us) frown upon anyone running their engine in gear whilst moored as it churns up the bank and disturbs other boats.

 

Chris

[alan_fincher]

This thread will run and run!.....

 

I look forward to the techical experts theories and calculations on this one !

[NB Phoenix]

Because if you run a diesel engine on light load regularly (ie: out of gear), the engine never gets up to its proper working temperature and this can lead to glazing of the cylinder bores and consequent problems.

Using an API CC oil is supposed to counter this, but I checked with Isuzu (who specify API CC) oil and they told me only to run it out of gear to charge the battery as a final measure.

 

BW (and most of us) frown upon anyone running their engine in gear whilst moored as it churns up the bank and disturbs other boats.

 

Chris

 

 

Thats what I intended to say..........he he he

 

Hi Chris

[chris w]

Sorry NB Phoenix, our posts crossed. didn't mean to slice across you

[NB Phoenix]

Sorry NB Phoenix, our posts crossed. didn't mean to slice across you

 

No probs Chris.

 

 

And anybody looking at our avatars..... No we are not twins or share the same suit.

[chris w]

Don't fib bruv

[Theo]

I would guess that it is not too bad just occasionally to run your engine for an hour or so to charge the batteries so I do this from time to time but with normal cruising in between. Running the engine in gear when moored will waste lots of diesel and do the damage to banks already commented upon.

 

Nick

[NB Phoenix]

Don't fib bruv

 

OK........ Lend us a tenner...

 

 

 

Now lets see whos telling the truth

[chris w]

OK........ Lend us a tenner...

Which one: Carreras, Domingo, or Pavarotti? I can only afford one.

[NB Alnwick]

I would guess that it is not too bad just occasionally to run your engine for an hour or so to charge the batteries so I do this from time to time but with normal cruising in between. Running the engine in gear when moored will waste lots of diesel and do the damage to banks already commented upon.

 

We occasionally have to do this - after starting the engine we run it slowly astern until it warms up (this usually takes an hour) then we run it much faster at about 300 rpm until we have 28v or thereabouts showing on the voltmeter ('Alnwick' is a 24v boat) - that is usually sufficient to provide a couple of days TV viewing and all the other things we expect our electricity to do. We can achieve the same results with the portable genny but it is noisier and needs to run for much longer to achieve the same result. We usually run the main engine whilst moored against pilings to minimise any effect on the bank but, even so, I am sure that our prop running at 150 RPM astern does a lot less damage than some of the boats that come charging past with a wash sufficient to flood the tow path, yank our mooring lines and knock our coffee cups over.

[david and julie]

I suppose all engines are different, but Beta have said there is nothing to be gained from running their engines in gear. They say the extra load generated is minimal and just causes needless wear to other parts.

[howardang]

We usually run the main engine whilst moored against pilings to minimise any effect on the bank but, even so, I am sure that our prop running at 150 RPM astern does a lot less damage than some of the boats that come charging past with a wash sufficient to flood the tow path, yank our mooring lines and knock our coffee cups over.

 

 

Running the engine in gear while moored is actually against BW bye laws, and it's a myth that doing so while alongside pilings minimises damage, especially when running astern. The wash is trapped between the hull and the bank and actually undermines the piles. Even running in ahead can cause a problem. The damage caused is unseen until the piles eventually fail and is expensive to repair.

 

Howard Anguish

[NB Alnwick]

Running the engine in gear while moored is actually against BW bye laws

 

Then we shall need to change the way we charge our batteries - perhaps a bigger alternator will give the engine sufficient load to prevent the bores from glazing? We were thinking of that possibility today but most modern alternators are designed to run at speeds of up to 15,000 RPM - we need one that will charge 28v+ at between 750 to 3500 RPM

[DHutch]

May i just briefly point out that regardless of any other reasons/thoughts that may be given below this practic is actaully a breach of BW waterways code.

http://www.britishwaterways.co.uk/images/W..._tcm6-71610.pdf

- And also that certain boats, such as ours, physicaly cannot run there engines without spinning the prop.

- And that this has been coved about 50 times before on here.

 

 

Daniel

 

[edit] Post crossed with both Howard's and nbAlnwick's

[alan_fincher]

May i just briefly point out that regardless of any other reasons/thoughts that may be given below this practic is actaully a breach of BW waterways code.

http://www.britishwaterways.co.uk/images/W..._tcm6-71610.pdf

- And also that certain boats, such as ours, physicaly cannot run there engines without spinning the prop.

- And that this has been coved about 50 times before on here.

Daniel

 

[edit] Post crossed with both Howard's and nbAlnwick's

Dan,

 

I agree with you it's not a good idea.

 

There may indeed be a bye-law prohibiting it. (I've certainly heard that before Howard's comments, above...)

 

But I can't see anything in the 2 page Waterways Code leaflet you have attached that specifically mentions running an engine in gear whilst moored.

 

Sure it says "Don't damage the vegetation or banks", but I'm sure there are many who follow this practice who would argue that if it's well piled and deep enough, that it's NOT damaging them. (Note: I'm NOT saying that though!....)

 

Does anyone know of anything published that SPECIFICALLY forbids you from doing it ?

[Keeping Up]

Does anyone know of anything published that SPECIFICALLY forbids you from doing it ?

Yes, The BW licence conditions (Page 5 paragraph 4)

[DHutch]

But I can't see anything in the 2 page Waterways Code leaflet you have attached that specifically mentions running an engine in gear whilst moored.

Eh?

- Its the first thing under "boats with engines"

 

I quote:

Avoid creating a breaking wash, and dont run your propeller while moored

 

I know its only a 2-side flyer, but its just the first thing i came to link to at 20 to midnight!

[Gary Peacock]

This comes under the do you paint the inside with "Waxoyl" and I have a copy of a really good book on how to build a Narrowboats published in the 1970's theory!

 

You don't want polished bores you know! Which becomes very boring after been told it by someone who wouldn't know a bore if someone told him he was one!

[Sir Nibble]

we need one that will charge 28v+ at between 750 to 3500 RPM

One like Dan has on Emily Anne then.

[magnetman]

A quick question -

 

I recently noticed a boat opposite me charging its batteries by running the engine - I presume that is what it was doing because it has been there for a while and there is no mains supply there. What puzzled me was that it was left in gear - driving against the moorings and throwing a spout into the cut (if not sucking a hole in the bank)

 

Why would it be left in gear like this?

 

This story apparently goes back to advice from LISTER concerning their air cooled engines which tend to run too cold if not given sufficient loading. This causes 'piston slap' and glazing of the bores. They therefore advised canal boat owners to run in gear if using the engine for battery charging.

 

Modern water cooled engines have a bypass thermostat system which will allow them to reach correct operating temperature at any engine speed which means they DO NOT NEED TO BE RUN IN GEAR EXCEPT FOR MOVING THE BOAT.

Running in gear while moored up has severe undermining effects on piling, particularly the old concrete type and this practice is more than likely to be the cause of breaches. While BW do 'ask' people not to do this it is not a legally enforceable reglation as shown in the license conditions 'bold' and 'normal' typefaces.

 

When it comes to direct drive steam or Bolinders engines, I doubt they use the engine for charging/hot water while moored- running in gear waiting for a lock is not going to be for long enough to cause damage.

[WJM]

"- And also that certain boats, such as ours, physicaly cannot run there engines without spinning the prop"

 

Are you sure!!!!!! - how do you sit still while waiting for a lock?

 

 

 

 

To suggest you cant get the engine hot without a load sounds like nonsense to me - sure at tick over it might struggle - but lift the revs and it will get hot. This sounds like an old wives tale - and sucking the puddle clay out of the bank seems irresponsible to me.

[Hairy-Neil]

Are you sure!!!!!! - how do you sit still while waiting for a lock?

 

You turn off the steam supply to the engine

[Keeping Up]

Some road-going equivalents make interesting thinking.

 

"Sorry officer but I have to do 100 mph to get enough volts for the headlights to work"

"No I can't park the car, I'll just keep driving around this roundabout until the battery is charged"

 

And so on. Actually here in Milton Keynes that second one doesn't look so silly ...

 

Allan