Three month narrowboat hire or buy?

[GILow]

Well thank you all again, I will contact the suggested hire firms, some do look promising, but it does seem my idea of buying makes more sense than I first thought.

 

Good point about the bigger boat being easier to sell later too.

 

Overall, I suspect we will need to buy simply to have the flexibility to travel where we want to, when we want to. I don't want to appear a wimp, but the thought of winter on the Canals does not entirely appeal. We came over in Spring last time and it was terrific. Plenty of water in the canals, which I gather can be a problem in summer, and not too many boats under way at once, which I could imagine would make things less relaxing.

 

Finally, one thought has struck me from a comment made early on: There might be people looking to do some kind of swap deal, which could work well for all parties. The boat owner gets a holiday by the beach in Australia with a blue water sailing boat included and we get a holiday on the canals in the UK. Not sure if that is against the rules but I assume if no money changed hands and the insurance issues could all be sorted out it would work?

 

Matt

I think you could probably get other shared boat owners to agree to 3 consecutive weeks but not 7 or 8 which would virtually wipe out the use of the boat during a popular cruising time for the other owners - spring, summer and autumn. Now, if you want your 7 weeks in winter, it might be more achievable..

 

haggis

Sorry, I just have to say, great login name, our last boat was called Haggis.

[haggis]

Well thank you all again, I will contact the suggested hire firms, some do look promising, but it does seem my idea of buying makes more sense than I first thought.

 

Good point about the bigger boat being easier to sell later too.

 

Overall, I suspect we will need to buy simply to have the flexibility to travel where we want to, when we want to. I don't want to appear a wimp, but the thought of winter on the Canals does not entirely appeal. We came over in Spring last time and it was terrific. Plenty of water in the canals, which I gather can be a problem in summer, and not too many boats under way at once, which I could imagine would make things less relaxing.

 

Finally, one thought has struck me from a comment made early on: There might be people looking to do some kind of swap deal, which could work well for all parties. The boat owner gets a holiday by the beach in Australia with a blue water sailing boat included and we get a holiday on the canals in the UK. Not sure if that is against the rules but I assume if no money changed hands and the insurance issues could all be sorted out it would work?

 

Matt

Sorry, I just have to say, great login name, our last boat was called Haggis.

I adopted haggis as my internet name when chat rooms started as it was non gender specific. I had been "targetted" when using my real name and this made me wary. Haggis has somehow stuck!

 

haggis!

[RichardH]

Not sure anyone on here has used ETRR. They operate on a 'buy a very small share therefore you are not a hirer' afaik

 

I tend to agree that most hire companies simply couldn't arrange a 3 month hire to meet most expectations.

 

A good season is 25+ weeks out of the 32 week season. An average is closer to 20-22 weeks hired. But even that will be a mix of discounted and full price weeks. If we were hiring still I would be looking at a price of 9-10k for a 57ft 4 berth for 12 weeks to meet usual expected levels of income without the potential hassle of a call out from London etc.

 

Selling at a 50% discount is unsustainable in the long term and merely a way of helping cover their fixed costs rather than the boat being tied up out of use.

 

I do also happen to know of a nice 40ft 2 berther for sale in the region of 30k........

[Pykebird]

My neighbour has just bought a 1999 trad at 50 foot. Including the survey, blacking, anodes and a new floor inside it stands him in under 12 k!

Yes it was shit filthy and looked in a real bad state, but with a tidy up of the paint work it would probably be worth over 20k(according to the surveyor).

Not a bad return for less than a couple of weeks work!

[OldGoat]

Well thank you all again, I will contact the suggested hire firms, some do look promising, but it does seem my idea of buying makes more sense than I first thought.

 

Good point about the bigger boat being easier to sell later too.

 

Overall, I suspect we will need to buy simply to have the flexibility to travel where we want to, when we want to. I don't want to appear a wimp, but the thought of winter on the Canals does not entirely appeal. We came over in Spring last time and it was terrific. Plenty of water in the canals, which I gather can be a problem in summer, and not too many boats under way at once, which I could imagine would make things less relaxing.

 

Finally, one thought has struck me from a comment made early on: There might be people looking to do some kind of swap deal, which could work well for all parties. The boat owner gets a holiday by the beach in Australia with a blue water sailing boat included and we get a holiday on the canals in the UK. Not sure if that is against the rules but I assume if no money changed hands and the insurance issues could all be sorted out it would work?

 

Matt

 

Peak season over here is last two weeks in July and most of August. - Avoid.

 

Summer is five days in August.

 

The canals become habitable May to July - except for the year you come over......

So Spring onwards is best as you infer.

 

A swap sounds attractive but folks over here are not as laid back as you are. Given the nature of our waters and their usage is that there aren't a large number of folks who are competent with both methods of boating - especially of you're a Rag 'n Stick merchant.

 

I can foresee challenges on either side - 'we' might trash your boat and vice versa....

[Loafer]

Hmm. Email every boat hire company with your request. One in 10 would probably be interested in a deal with one of their older boats they were considering recycling.

 

I'd have been interested in swapping boats, since I'm an RYA 'Coastal Skipper' and 'Certificate of Competence' holder with around 6000nm experience, in 5 years living aboard, from Western Scotland down to Southern Brittany. Trouble is, I'm dog-disadvantaged and Mrs Loafer has too many dodgy parents now, to want to commit for that long.

 

Shurely there must be other ex-sailors that would be willing to swap? Dunno how you'd get to trust them. One of them might prefer your yacht and never return. You can't do that on our inland waterways, 'cos you're only doing walking speed and lots of peeps will see you.

 

If you DO buy to sell, then drive a hard bargain. I 'lost' a dream boat because it was £75,000. It sold for £50,000 a year later. I didn't have the heart to make such a silly offer. Be HARD!

[GILow]

Hmmm, must be an Aussie perspective thing... but I can't imagine anyone trying to pinch our boat. Most of the yacht clubs have absolutely token security, there's practically nothing to stop you walking aboard a boat of your choice and sailing away, except for the fact that there's nowhere to hide once you are under way.

 

But interesting point about people's concerns about boat swapping. Funnily enough, from our perspective I would have thought the sailing boat was a much more daunting proposition than a canal boat. After all, we got a five minute introduction to the canal hire boat, just explaining where the various bits of plumbing were, how to tell if the toilet tank needed emptying and how to clear the propeller. Mind you, some of the rental boats were being driven into the sides of the locks, and into each other... so maybe I can understand the concern for the boat owners. I certainly would worry about renting mine out if I owned one.

 

Matt

[Loafer]

Hmmm, must be an Aussie perspective thing... but I can't imagine anyone trying to pinch our boat. Most of the yacht clubs have absolutely token security, there's practically nothing to stop you walking aboard a boat of your choice and sailing away, except for the fact that there's nowhere to hide once you are under way.

 

But interesting point about people's concerns about boat swapping. Funnily enough, from our perspective I would have thought the sailing boat was a much more daunting proposition than a canal boat. After all, we got a five minute introduction to the canal hire boat, just explaining where the various bits of plumbing were, how to tell if the toilet tank needed emptying and how to clear the propeller. Mind you, some of the rental boats were being driven into the sides of the locks, and into each other... so maybe I can understand the concern for the boat owners. I certainly would worry about renting mine out if I owned one.

 

Matt

I'd be less worried about letting a Narrowboat than a yacht. Most nbs are steel, most yachts are GRP, of varying thicknesses of course.

 

Where is your yacht based, and what are your local cruising waters like, for sea conditions, shelter, anchorages, water provision, laundries, boozers etc?

 

PM me if you don't want to give much away. As a retired senior military officer with credentials, I'm a man of my word. But I repeat - I'm not able to be VERY interested because of present circumstances. But my handle says it all. I spend my retirement loafing about, and could consider the 'right swap', especially back to the sea for a while. Mrs Loafer is also highly qualified, in sea survival, radio licence, radar, AIS and 30 years' sailing in UK waters.

 

There MUST be narrowboaters like us, with a bit more freedom.

 

How would I trust YOU to look after my home?

 

Just some thoughts.

[GILow]

Just mixing it up a little more, my wife asks the sensible question... what if we kept the boat for a year or two and had multiple holidays? Then family in the UK could use it while we are back in Oz and we could get a bit more use from the boat for the effort involved in buying and selling...

 

I will look at the costs associated with storing the boat when not in use, bound to be some pointers on this forum.

 

Matt

[Loafer]

Just mixing it up a little more, my wife asks the sensible question... what if we kept the boat for a year or two and had multiple holidays? Then family in the UK could use it while we are back in Oz and we could get a bit more use from the boat for the effort involved in buying and selling...

 

I will look at the costs associated with storing the boat when not in use, bound to be some pointers on this forum.

 

Matt

I think a year is a better period for considering a purchase rather than a loan or swap. But DRIVE A HARD BARGAIN and avoid being soft, or sympathetic, like I was. That way, your boat should re-sell at a good price. Possibly even the same price.

 

Over to those with black cats!

[GILow]

I think a year is a better period for considering a purchase rather than a loan or swap. But DRIVE A HARD BARGAIN and avoid being soft, or sympathetic, like I was. That way, your boat should re-sell at a good price. Possibly even the same price.

 

Over to those with black cats!

RIGHT, if we buy, I'll be tough... er.. at least I'll try. To be honest, I reckon I am crap at negotiations. Shouldn't play poker, just don't have the unreadable demeanour.

 

If it is anything like buying boats in Oz, usually the eventual purchase price ends up around two thirds of the advertised price... but I don't seriously expect anyone to confirm or deny that one.

 

Matt

Matt

[Loafer]

PM awaits your attention.

 

Notwithstanding my PM, there is surprisingly little red tape involved in buying a Narrowboat here. Other than a licence, insurance and some beer money, you don't need much else, in your case. (Maintenance, keeping stuff going etc)

 

Keep us posted on how things pan out, dude!

 

If you buy one, there's also very little protection from you buying a pig. Buyer beware.

[Peter Reed]

RIGHT, if we buy, I'll be tough... er.. at least I'll try. To be honest, I reckon I am crap at negotiations. Shouldn't play poker, just don't have the unreadable demeanour.

 

If it is anything like buying boats in Oz, usually the eventual purchase price ends up around two thirds of the advertised price... but I don't seriously expect anyone to confirm or deny that one.

 

Matt

Matt

Matt

Matt, welcome to CWDF. Perhaps you should ask the same questions about six months before your intended

visit, laws,regulations,exchange rates and individuals circumstances/knowledge might have changed by then. Hope this helps.

[Grace and Favour]

Matt,

 

A suggestion for your consideration.

 

There are a number of well-respected and most knowledgable chaps on CWDF, any one of whom you could possibly discuss your ideal boat requirements with, and they could act as an agent on your behalf, providong a completely impartial shortlist of likely craft for your consideration, and even hard-driving the bargain for you, maybe.

 

It may just make the whole exercise of choice and pre-purchase an whole lote easier and time-efficient for you?

[Loafer]

Matt,

 

A suggestion for your consideration.

 

There are a number of well-respected and most knowledgable chaps on CWDF, any one of whom you could possibly discuss your ideal boat requirements with, and they could act as an agent on your behalf, providong a completely impartial shortlist of likely craft for your consideration, and even hard-driving the bargain for you, maybe.

 

It may just make the whole exercise of choice and pre-purchase an whole lote easier and time-efficient for you?

What he said.

[GILow]

Matt,

 

A suggestion for your consideration.

 

There are a number of well-respected and most knowledgable chaps on CWDF, any one of whom you could possibly discuss your ideal boat requirements with, and they could act as an agent on your behalf, providong a completely impartial shortlist of likely craft for your consideration, and even hard-driving the bargain for you, maybe.

 

It may just make the whole exercise of choice and pre-purchase an whole lote easier and time-efficient for you?

 

Matt,

 

A suggestion for your consideration.

 

There are a number of well-respected and most knowledgable chaps on CWDF, any one of whom you could possibly discuss your ideal boat requirements with, and they could act as an agent on your behalf, providong a completely impartial shortlist of likely craft for your consideration, and even hard-driving the bargain for you, maybe.

 

It may just make the whole exercise of choice and pre-purchase an whole lote easier and time-efficient for you?

Sorry, newbie parlance question here... CWDF... Canal World Forum...?

 

Are you saying members here would be willing/able to act as a spotters?

 

Matt

 

 

 

Summer is five days in August.

 

Ha ha, I just read this carefully! That made me smile. After nearly 30 days over 40 degrees this summer at home, that sounds quite attractive to us.

 

Matt

[alan_fincher]

CWDF = CanalWorld Discussion Forum.

 

(See top of this screen!).

Edited March 24, 2014 by alan_fincher

[GILow]

CWDF = CanalWorld Discussion Forum.

 

(See top of this screen!).

Oops, I feel silly.

[Burgiesburnin]

Just mixing it up a little more, my wife asks the sensible question... what if we kept the boat for a year or two and had multiple holidays? Then family in the UK could use it while we are back in Oz and we could get a bit more use from the boat for the effort involved in buying and selling...

 

I will look at the costs associated with storing the boat when not in use, bound to be some pointers on this forum.

 

Matt

 

I could look at some sort of shared ownership. It would be better though if there was another person that was at least a bit closer to the boat though to attend to unexpected but likely inevitable issues that may arise.

[GILow]

I could look at some sort of shared ownership. It would be better though if there was another person that was at least a bit closer to the boat though to attend to unexpected but likely inevitable issues that may arise.

Yes, I sure can relate to that, I am often dashing down to the marina when the strong winds hit to see if I still have a boat.

[Grace and Favour]

 

Sorry, newbie parlance question here... CWDF... Canal World Forum...?

 

Are you saying members here would be willing/able to act as a spotters?

 

Matt

 

Ha ha, I just read this carefully! That made me smile. After nearly 30 days over 40 degrees this summer at home, that sounds quite attractive to us.

 

Matt

I'm suggesting that there are a few members with substantial experience (for example, some are professional boat safety examiners) and spend their life working with boats, whom may be prepared to sort out an arrangement with you - - it is a random thought on my part, and not anything I've discussed with anyone at all (merely published it on this thread)

[harleyj]

 

Ha ha, I just read this carefully! That made me smile. After nearly 30 days over 40 degrees this summer at home, that sounds quite attractive to us.

 

Matt

You must live in the Pilbara to get that sort of heat!!

[OldGoat]

Just mixing it up a little more, my wife asks the sensible question... what if we kept the boat for a year or two and had multiple holidays? Then family in the UK could use it while we are back in Oz and we could get a bit more use from the boat for the effort involved in buying and selling...

 

I will look at the costs associated with storing the boat when not in use, bound to be some pointers on this forum.

 

Matt

 

 

Hmm - that makes the venture a lot more sensible, spreads the cost and the joy as well as keeping the pommie relatives happy.

There are boatyards that would manage the boat for you - and possibly hire boat companies too, if you bought one of their retirees.

 

Worth seeing if there's any mileage in that approach.

[GILow]

Let's see if I have this right...

 

It seems the smartest option is to start looking at boats in the sub 47 foot range (to keep our travel options open), but closer to that end of the scale in size (mainly to make resale easier, but also to have a bit more living space), and plan to keep the boat for two years at the maximum, probably more like one year and a half (which equates to one initial three month visit, plus another return visit a year later), plus whatever it takes in time to sell the boat.

 

I will certainly follow up the various suggestions on purchasing ex hire boats etc, and come back to check my assumptions over time.

 

Taking this logic I will now start looking harder at all of the lovely charts/books we purchased on our last trip (or are they called maps when dealing with canals?) to see if we can make a sensible plan with options for a minor circumnavigation (correct term?). One thing we learned from the last trip was that a loop would have been nicer than returning along the same path. We had originally planned a small loop but flooding had closed one section of the proposed route, (near Stratford Upon Avon) so that option had to be abandoned.

 

I assume we will end up with the boat some significant distance from where we started after the first three month instalment, and clearly where we start will be, at least in part, dictated by the location of the boat when we buy it, so I will start the route planning with this in mind.

 

Thank you all for your advice, it feels a lot less daunting knowing people are so willing to share their experience and wisdom when tackling a project like this.

 

Matt

[Grace and Favour]

Let's see if I have this right...

 

It seems the smartest option is to start looking at boats in the sub 57 foot range (to keep our travel options open), but closer to that end of the scale in size (mainly to make resale easier, but also to have a bit more living space), and plan to keep the boat for two years at the maximum, probably more like one year and a half (which equates to one initial three month visit, plus another return visit a year later), plus whatever it takes in time to sell the boat.

 

I will certainly follow up the various suggestions on purchasing ex hire boats etc, and come back to check my assumptions over time.

 

Taking this logic I will now start looking harder at all of the lovely charts/books we purchased on our last trip (or are they called maps when dealing with canals?) to see if we can make a sensible plan with options for a minor circumnavigation (correct term?). One thing we learned from the last trip was that a loop would have been nicer than returning along the same path. We had originally planned a small loop but flooding had closed one section of the proposed route, (near Stratford Upon Avon) so that option had to be abandoned.

 

I assume we will end up with the boat some significant distance from where we started after the first three month instalment, and clearly where we start will be, at least in part, dictated by the location of the boat when we buy it, so I will start the route planning with this in mind.

 

Thank you all for your advice, it feels a lot less daunting knowing people are so willing to share their experience and wisdom when tackling a project like this.

 

Matt