maximum number of people

[Bones]

I have done a search but to no avail. I am trying to work out how many people my boat can hold, while moored, before it sinks. The drain holes from the foredeck are quite low and only a few inches from the water level.

 

I persume it is written down somewhere but I can't find it - perhaps I am just being blind. Perhaps there is a formula of length of boat, distribution of weight and position of drain holes......?????

[WJM]

The CE Plaque installed by the manufacturer on my boat says six - tho I am sure it could take more.

[ChrisPy]

you would be well advised not to take on any more people than is stated in your owner's manual or CE plaque, or Builder's Plate. If you did, and there was an incident, then your insurance company would have a quick exit strategy.

 

academically you could probably take on many more bodies than would fit in the space available before your engine space vents and front bulkhead door actually flooded, provided you didn't rock the boat and placed them all strategically. Possibly 5 tonnes of people = about 70 bodies.

[bottle]

Hi Bones

 

I cannot find it at the moment but this came up before, the actual number is not controled by the amount the boat could hold but the 'regulations'

 

The maximium that can be on a boat is twelve after that you need a 'Masters licence' and to have done the course/training.

 

Of course twelve people on a small boat may well be to many, just get eleven friends round and if you notice that you have wet feet, thats too many.

[DaveR]

OK irrespective of what the CE plate says or safety rules allow, best done in metric and in meters not centimeters.

 

Length of the boat x width of the boat x distance from existing waterline to the holes. So for a forty footer something like 12m x 2m x 0.10m

 

For the distance from the waterline to the holes, if trimmed by the stern take forward and aft measurements add together and divide by two, unless you have a measuring point amidships. If trimmed to one side take both measurements on both sides, add together and divide by four.

 

This (LxBxD) will give you the "block" shape of the boat that needs to be submerged, the shape of the bow and stern can be allowed for by multiplying the answer by 0.85. OK this is very approximate but . . . . .

 

As fresh water is 1,000kg per cubic meter then there's the answer, the weight needed to sink the boat to the holes.

 

Loads of proviso's :

 

Where are the people - evenly distributed throughout the length of the boat?

Are they BFB's like me at 100kg each or slim waifs like the ladies of this forum at **kg each ??

Is you boat on an even keel ??

Are you so drunk you don't care ??

Has Santa arrived with the entourage on the roof?

 

 

Time to lie down now

 

edited for clarity - must reeed words before posting )

Edited December 6, 2006 by DaveR

[Hairy-Neil]

The maximium that can be on a boat is twelve after that you need a 'Masters licence' and to have done the course/training.

 

Is that twelve passengers or twelve total including the crew?.......

 

There is no requirement as far as I'm aware to have attended/completed any form of recognised training. You just have to pass the test.

Edited December 6, 2006 by Hairy-Neil

[Bones]

I am more interested in regulations than anything else - I shall have a look on my CE plate... I'm sure I saw it once!

 

As for the calculations, I like that sort of thing - it always helps to know whether the weight will sink the boat!

[Hairy-Neil]

And does the master of a permanently moored bar/restaurant boat need a Boatmasters License if more than 12 customers are in?

[Keeping Up]

For a 70 foot boat you can assume 1" per ton of load (it's not exact but near enough), so if you assume the people to be no more than 13 stone each, that's about 12 people per ton. So if you've got 6 inches of freeboard you could carry 72 people in a full-length boat. Call it 1 person per foot of boat; so a 50 foot boat could take 50 people, etc.

 

Of course this assumes that the people are evenly distributed and that everybody keeps still. If one person got up to go to the toilet (now that you have one) it could tip the whole lot over.

 

The regulations are more to do with other things such as fire exits, ventilation, and so on. In particular I believe the limits placed by the CE plate are usually set by the numer of ventilators; common sense would say that you could have more people on board if you open a window, but rules are not usually related to common sense. But of course if your boat is old enough to not have a CE plate then this capacity limit is not relevant.

 

The limit of 12 people was, I think, originally set the same regardless of whether it was a boat, a minibus, or any other mode of transport, and is all about how many people you are allowed to kill without a licence. So the Masters certificate is more like a sort of hunting licence for people. I do wonder though, whether that limit applies if the boat is tied up in a private marina and is not underway.

 

I think the best is just to load a couple of dozen people on and see what happens. If nobody has to start bailing, you can add a few more.

 

Allan

Edited December 6, 2006 by Keeping Up
Edited to try and spell my own name right

[Gary Peacock]

The stability calculations have to be done by the builder by law and are quite complex. The details are on the CE plate. (That is if it was built after 16 June 1998)

If you exceed this and have a disaster then you will probably find your insurance company will dispute their liability and you will have to take full responsibility for liability yourself.

[Bones]

The stability calculations have to be done by the builder by law and are quite complex. The details are on the CE plate. (That is if it was built after 16 June 1998)

If you exceed this and have a disaster then you will probably find your insurance company will dispute their liability and you will have to take full responsibility for liability yourself.

 

 

My boat was build in the 1980s....

[Hairy-Neil]

The limit of 12 people was, I think, originally set the same regardless of whether it was a boat, a minibus, or any other mode of transport, and is all about how many people you are allowed to kill without a licence.

 

Pre c. 1990 most people with an ordinary car licence could drive a double decker bus full of people so long as they were not fair paying passengers. Groups like dance troups, brass bands, scouts and the like, even factories and some schools had an old bus in this manner. Then the rules changed so that I even needed a licence to take an empty bus for road test or MOT, though these were dished out freely to anyone who could prove they were driving such vehicles pre legislation.

 

Pre the Marchioness disaster in Aug 89 (so about the same time )there was no requirement for trip boat skippers to have a Boatmasters Certificate to carry more than 12 passengers. There was no "grandfather's rights" issue with these, though I've heard that some of the bulk examinations for existing steerers were little more than a formality.....

Edited December 6, 2006 by Hairy-Neil

[John Orentas]

My 50ft boat was built just before all the regulation began. The most important being the insurance stipulation which now seem to follow others including rules concerning mini-buses. My policy states maximum 12 passengers plus crew. Some years ago however I did a trip with 20 plus crew of 2 without problems.

 

My boat has a large front deck and with 6 or 7 people on there and with full water tank the scuppers will sometimes allow water to slightly flood the deck, this alarms a few folk but the step up the the front door is another 6 inches so not a problem. I must say though I would see 20 as a maximum, it did feel a bit wallowy when they all went for a beer at the same time.

 

A friend of mine had a new restaurtant boat built some years ago, the B o T inspector insisted on some stability tests, he emptied the 2 local pubs and with 30 or so big beery chaps on board he had them moving around as directed, the boat passed but I have always wondered what would have been the outcome had it rolled like a striken battleship.

 

The real danger is in allowing passengers on the roof of the boat, I have seen very hairy moments in my time. Some well publicised fatalities too over the years.

Edited December 6, 2006 by John Orentas

[Dr Bradley]

My policy states maximum 12 passengers plus crew. Some years ago however I did a trip with 20 plus crew of 2 without problems.

 

 

Does this mean I couldtake 10 passengers and 50crew?

[John Orentas]

Does this mean I couldtake 10 passengers and 50crew?

 

 

There is a concept in law about 'The reasonal man'.

[salmiron]

 

The real danger is in allowing passengers on the roof of the boat, I have seen very hairy moments in my time. Some well publicised fatalities too over the years.

 

Are you thinking of the increased instability caused by passengers on the roof as opposed to on the deck, or the danger of them being hit by low flying bridges?

[John Orentas]

Are you thinking of the increased instability caused by passengers on the roof as opposed to on the deck, or the danger of them being hit by low flying bridges?

 

 

There was a case on the Severn a few years ago. Small day-boat with several large blokes on the roof, a tight turn with a predictable result. I think two or more drowned, the case kick-started much of the regulation we have today.

[Richard Lacy]

There was a case on the Severn a few years ago. Small day-boat with several large blokes on the roof, a tight turn with a predictable result. I think two or more drowned, the case kick-started much of the regulation we have today.

 

 

It was 7th September 2003 . A 20ft cruiser was returning to its moorings outside the marina after the River Regatta and capsized . There were 15 people on board and a woman drowned . Three people were arrested and the helmsman was later charged with manslaughter.

[elessina]

My policy states maximum 12 passengers plus crew.

I believe mine is the same, which is ok and acceptable for cruising purposes.

 

But I wonder where I stand if we were to have more than 12 people on board at our mooring. With our 60ft Dutch Barge there are times when we have come close to having more than 12 people on board, when on our mooring.

 

When on our mooring I could say we do not have any 'passengers', just visitors!!

 

Ian

Elessina

[PeterF]

Are you thinking of the increased instability caused by passengers on the roof as opposed to on the deck, or the danger of them being hit by low flying bridges?

 

Definitely the instability caused by having a large mass well above the centre of gravity (or equivalent boat location). Our CE plate states 8 people (55ft) but the RCD documentation from the builder states that at no point should more than 1/3rd of the people be on the roof and recommends less than this. This gives me the problem of which parts of my body I cut off before getting on the roof when my wife is the only other person on board.

[Bones]

Definitely the instability caused by having a large mass well above the centre of gravity (or equivalent boat location). Our CE plate states 8 people (55ft) but the RCD documentation from the builder states that at no point should more than 1/3rd of the people be on the roof and recommends less than this. This gives me the problem of which parts of my body I cut off before getting on the roof when my wife is the only other person on board.

 

Perhaps I should do an experiment... I can think of an ideal situation to try it when there may actually be enough people to test it.

[WJM]

My brother is a commercial pilot - he reckons my narrowboat is the same size as the fuelage of his aircraft and his total weight is the same as my NB. He can carry 42 people - does this help? :-)

[wrigglefingers]

My brother is a commercial pilot - he reckons my narrowboat is the same size as the fuelage of his aircraft and his total weight is the same as my NB. He can carry 42 people - does this help? :-)

 

Most narrowboats find it hard to get airborne with only the pilot ..............

[WJM]

thats probably because they dont have wings - ever pull the wings off an insect when you were a kid? that looks like a narrowboat trying to fly!

Edited December 6, 2006 by WJM

[David Schweizer]

There is no requirement as far as I'm aware to have attended/completed any form of recognised training. You just have to pass the test.

I am not absolutely sure that there is a legal requirement to attend a training Course, but having taken the examination, it is very unlikely that the average boater would pass the theory section without having undertaken some training. What you cannot avoid is the minimum number of operational hours under supervision, before taking the test.