Is the appeal a good idea?

[Mick and Maggie]

Thinking about what Cameron said in parliament in the debate on the floods. 'The money will be made available' etc. Should CaRT not get some money directly from the government for this national disaster. I'm of the mind that starting a national appeal might give Cameron the idea that the boaters can afford it. I'm sure that starting a collection will only encourage the government to exclude CaRT from whatever funding is made available. I can't see the EA launching an appeal any time soon.

 

 

[Guest]

Thinking about what Cameron said in parliament in the debate on the floods. 'The money will be made available' etc. Should CaRT not get some money directly from the government for this national disaster. I'm of the mind that starting a national appeal might give Cameron the idea that the boaters can afford it. I'm sure that starting a collection will only encourage the government to exclude CaRT from whatever funding is made available. I can't see the EA launching an appeal any time soon.

 

 

 

As far as I am aware the EA couldn't launch an appeal in the same way CRT has because they are not a registered charity.

 

Because of that yes I do think the appeal is a good idea because you are correct I do think that because CRT potentially has access to donations it may indeed sway the govt. towards reducing any contingency funding it may have given to the Trust.

 

The problem is that thus far the appeal has only raised £4.5K and I suspect that isn't going to go very far in the big scheme of things, so yes they need every penny they can get as I see it.

 

It would however also be one good time to not only ask for peoples money but also their time to help with the clear up work. I am sure a lot of people who would not be willing or cannot afford to give money would be happy to give their time.

[David Schweizer]

 

As far as I am aware the EA couldn't launch an appeal in the same way CRT has because they are not a registered charity.

 

Because of that yes I do think the appeal is a good idea because you are correct I do think that because CRT potentially has access to donations it may indeed sway the govt. towards reducing any contingency funding it may have given to the Trust.

 

The problem is that thus far the appeal has only raised £4.5K and I suspect that isn't going to go very far in the big scheme of things, so yes they need every penny they can get as I see it.

 

It would however also be one good time to not only ask for peoples money but also their time to help with the clear up work. I am sure a lot of people who would not be willing or cannot afford to give money would be happy to give their time.

 

Am I the only one confused by your second sentence? You seem to be saying that the appeal is a good idea, but at the same time suggesting that CaRT may have it's grant cut if it is raises money.

[Jerra]

I think these floods are going to cost so much that appeal or not the government isn't going to give any extra to the CRT. They will help people who have homes or property damaged by the floods, but having to cut their coat according to their cloth they will take the attitude, it doesn't matter if the canals grind to a halt.

[Tuscan]

NABO council has today agreed to donate £250 to the CRT flood appeal and is asking its members to support the appeal if they can.

 

I have also donated personally and will be keen to check that Vince Moran does get the funds

Edited February 15, 2014 by Tuscan

[jenlyn]

I questioned Vince Moran at a recent meeting on getting extra funding from government. He saw it as a no goer, believing the government would absolutely not provide any more than they have agreed to.

 

Personally, I believe the appeal the trust has put out is justified, and I will be donating. I believe as the main group of users, we should make an effort. Whether that involves giving cash or voluntary help.

[jelunga]

 

Am I the only one confused by your second sentence? You seem to be saying that the appeal is a good idea, but at the same time suggesting that CaRT may have it's grant cut if it is raises money.

Part of the conditions in the contract with the Government is to raise a certain sum of money through charitable activities(fund raising included),, increase the volunteer hours and achieve better maintenance figures. If theg do not achieve these figures then the payment and cintracts can be renegotiated. If they di achieve certain figures then the payments increase.

[Guest]

 

Am I the only one confused by your second sentence? You seem to be saying that the appeal is a good idea, but at the same time suggesting that CaRT may have it's grant cut if it is raises money.

 

Where did I mention anything about their grant?.

 

I was referring to any contingency (over and above funding) that they may be given to cope with the aftermath. I think it's almost inevitable that the govt.will take into account that CRT has the potential to raise it's own funding from other sources (ie donations) to cover exceptional events like this and indeed like the T&M breach. I believe they will in fact probably expect them to and make an adjustment accordingly, regardless of the final amount they actually do manage to raise.

[David Schweizer]

 

Where did I mention anything about their grant?.

 

I was referring to any contingency (over and above funding) that they may be given to cope with the aftermath. I think it's almost inevitable that the govt.will take into account that CRT has the potential to raise it's own funding from other sources (ie donations) to cover exceptional events like this and indeed like the T&M breach. I believe they will in fact probably expect them to and make an adjustment accordingly, regardless of the final amount they actually do manage to raise.

 

Understood, but If you had incorporated the words in parenthesis in your first post, I would not have assumed it was the contingency fund already included in the grant, (I assume they do actually have a contingency fund.)

Edited February 15, 2014 by David Schweizer

[Guest]

 

Understood, but If you had incorporated the words in parenthesis in your first post, I would not have assumed it was the contingency fund already included in the grant, (I assume they do actually have a contingency fund.)

 

I do understand they have a contingency fund but am not sure on the detail of your last point in that yes they get a 'grant' but it is for CRT to determine how much of that is set aside as contingency funding and it's not the govt. who say -

 

'This bit is for this, this other bit is for that and this last bit is your contingency funding' hence I posted in the way I did.

 

I accept I may be wrong though.

[David Schweizer]

Having thought about it a bit more, I am coming to the view that an increase in the annual Boat licence would be a far more efficient (and more guaranteed)way of raising additional revenue, rather than spending a lot of money to raise not much more money. It would also spread the load across all users rather than just the few who are willing to dip into their pockets from time to time.

 

If the figures I have available are correct a 5% increase would produce £1.25 millon, whilst most boaters would only pay an additional £40 to £50 more. Another funding possibility which has not been raised is whether the licence fee can be gift aided. All the other charities which I am involved with do this, or is the licence not considered to bne a donation but a fee, and therefore not elible. At the very least I hope that CaRT are asking people making donations to Gift Aid them, which will give them an addional 20% on the donation.

 

 

 

 

Edited February 15, 2014 by David Schweizer

[Guest]

 

Having thought about it a bit more, I am coming to the view that an increase in the annual Boat licence would be a far more efficient (and more guaranteed)way of raising additional revenue, rather than spending a lot of money to raise not much more money. It would also spread the load across all users rather than just the few who are willing to dip into their pockets from time to time.

 

If the figures I have available are correct a 5% increase would produce £1.25 millon, whilst most boaters would only pay an additional £40 to £50 more. Another funding possibility which has not been raised is whether the licence fee can be gift aided. All the other charities which I am involved with do this, or is the licence not considered to bne a donation but a fee, and therefore not elible. At the very least I hope that CaRT are asking people making donations to Gift Aid them, which will give them an addional 20% on the donation.

 

 

 

 

 

 

The problem with that approach is that boaters are not the only users of the system..

 

The advantage of an appeal is that non boaters can make a financial contribution towards something they too enjoy (though of course how many of them will or did when they appealed for funds for the T&M breach is open to debate)

 

CRT are always banging on about 'other' users of the system- the appeal gives them the chance to stump up a bit too.

 

CRT have also give an undertaking about the rate of increase on licence fees for their initial years at least so they would have to renege on that.

[cotswoldsman]

NABO council has today agreed to donate £250 to the CRT flood appeal and is asking its members to support the appeal if they can.

 

I have also donated personally and will be keen to check that Vince Moran does get the funds

Well done to NABO

[Jo_]

 

<snip> At the very least I hope that CaRT are asking people making donations to Gift Aid them, which will give them an addional 20% on the donation.

 

 

 

 

 

 

They do

[David Schweizer]

 

The problem with that approach is that boaters are not the only users of the system..

 

The advantage of an appeal is that non boaters can make a financial contribution towards something they too enjoy (though of course how many of them will or did when they appealed for funds for the T&M breach is open to debate)

 

CRT are always banging on about 'other' users of the system- the appeal gives them the chance to stump up a bit too.

 

CRT have also give an undertaking about the rate of increase on licence fees for their initial years at least so they would have to renege on that.

 

Yes, I understand that, but at the moment it would appear that by far the biggest audience for their fund raising efforts appears to be boaters, probaby beacause that is the biggest group for whom they have email addresses.

 

I have long wondered why there never seems to be much effort to seek any sort of financial contribution from the hordes of people who get in the way at places like Foxton and Stoke Bruerne, or from the armies of Dog Walkers and cyclists that frequent certain sections of the towpath, pehaps it is time for them to re-introduce the old Towpath Walking and Towpath Cycling Licences which were applied in the 1960's.

 

I have just thougt of another idea, perhaps CaRT could distribute cash collection tins which people moored at places like Braunston, Stoke Bruerne etc could shake at people looking at, and taking photos of their boats.

Edited February 15, 2014 by David Schweizer

[Guest]

 

They do

 

indeed they do - any charity that didn't do that deserves to go to the wall.

 

It's pretty basic I think and they wouldn't let that one go by.

[Mick and Maggie]

CaRT can get a 10% rise in a moment - cancel the early payment discount.

[Guest]

CaRT can get a 10% rise in a moment - cancel the early payment discount.

 

Can we wait until after the end of this month please....

[cotswoldsman]

 

Yes, I understand that, but at the moment it would appear that by far the biggest audience for their fund raising efforts appears to be boaters, probaby beacause that is the biggest group for whom they have email addresses.

 

I have long wondered why there never seems to be much effort to seek any sort of financial contribution from the hordes of people who get in the way at places like Foxton and Stoke Bruerne, or from the armies of Dog Walkers and cyclists that frequent certain sections of the towpath, pehaps it is time for them to re-introduce the old Towpath Walking and Towpath Cycling Licences which were applied in the 1960's.

 

I have just thougt of another idea, perhaps CaRT could distribute cash collection tins which people moored at places like Braunston, Stoke Bruerne etc could shake at people looking at, and taking photos of their boats.

Can't quite understand why spending money on licences for cyclists would help just more money spent

[David Schweizer]

Can't quite understand why spending money on licences for cyclists would help just more money spent

 

It was slightly tongue in cheek and it wouldn't work if Cyclist didn't buy them. I just recall back in the 1960's, and at least on the Southern GU, they issued Towpath Cycling Licences at ten shillings per annum, andTowpath Walking licences for half a crown. the towpath was patrolled on an old BSA bantam by a chap called John Williams who as far as I can remeber was an Officer of the now defunct London Waterways Division of the Transport Police. He would stop any walker or cyclist he did not recognise and ask to see their licence, if they didn't have one he would sell them one, or escort them off the towpath.

[FadeToScarlet]

It was slightly tongue in cheek and it wouldn't work if Cyclist didn't buy them. I just recall back in the 1960's, and at least on the Southern GU, they issued Towpath Cycling Licences at ten shillings per annum, andTowpath Walking licences for half a crown. the towpath was patrolled on an old BSA bantam by a chap called John Williams who as far as I can remeber was an Officer of the now defunct London Waterways Division of the Transport Police. He would stop any walker or cyclist he did not recognise and ask to see their licence, if they didn't have one he would sell them one, or escort them off the towpath.

He'd have his work cut out nowadays, with canal towpaths being seen as "green corridors" and nice ways to commute to work, being open to all, rather than being private property only recently opened to the public. I'd guess that, in the 60s, it wasn't seen in the same light, I can imagine a mother telling a young child "don't go near the canal or the dirty bargees will take you away" or something similar!

[Laurence Hogg]

 

 

 

 

Feb 14 at 5:41 PM

 

 

14 February 2014

 

 

**200 year old canal network feels the strain - National Flood Appeal launched**

 

 

The charity that looks after the nations historic canal and river network is appealing to friends and supporters for help in coping with the continuing extreme weather that is causing major challenges right across its 2,000 miles of waterways.

 

From Wales to Oxford, the canal and river network, which has been channelling water away from homes, farmland and businesses, is now deluged itself. 100s of trees have fallen across the network in the last 24 hours alone, sluices are constantly being cleared of debris, 200 year old humpback canal bridges damaged and there is extensive damage to large sections of embankment, towpath and canal-banks.

 

In Oxfordshire, 200 year old canal bridges on the Oxford Canal have been damaged and the towpath surfaces have washed away

In Somerset, the Bridgwater & Taunton Canal has been playing a significant role in efforts to relieve the flooded Somerset plains, but is now itself in flood and sections of towpath have been damaged

In Gloucestershire, the tidal Severn has scoured the embankment of the Gloucester & Sharpness Canal, the last line of defence for a large swathe of land

In Wiltshire and across the home counties, major floods on the Kennet & Avon and Grand Union Canals are causing hundreds of thousands of pounds of repair works

The River Severn has been in flood for some time and at record levels; many structures are submerged and damage is likely to be significant

And in Wales, the heavy rain has caused serious damage to two much-loved canals. Engineers are on site now assessing the impact to the Monmouthshire & Brecon Canal and the Llangollen Canal where embankments have slipped and are being urgently stabilised

 

Vince Moran, Canal & River Trust operations director, comments: I am hugely grateful to our staff, contractors and volunteers who have been braving the elements and working around the clock, clearing fallen trees and debris, keeping water moving away from the worst affected areas and making repairs wherever possible. Our resources are stretched and the situation continues to deteriorate day by day.

 

The full extent of the damage cannot yet be assessed. However, when waters recede we expect to see major damage to towpaths, locks and other canal heritage structures and features, which will affect millions of people and cost £millions to repair.

 

We are appealing for your help now to enable us to respond to this unprecedented crisis. Your support will help us fund the immediate and longer-term repairs that will be necessary to bring our towpaths and waterways back into use as quickly as possible. Every penny you give will be spent directly and entirely on repairing and protecting flood affected waterways.

 

To donate visit: canalrivertrust.org.uk/national-appeal

 

Ends

 

Interviewees are available over the weekend (Saturday 15 and Sunday 16 February).

 

For further information, contact, Jonathan Ludford, Canal & River Trust

Jonathan.ludford@canalrivertrust.org.uk

Tel: 07747 897783

Out of hours: 07887 545381

[David Schweizer]

He'd have his work cut out nowadays, with canal towpaths being seen as "green corridors" and nice ways to commute to work, being open to all, rather than being private property only recently opened to the public. I'd guess that, in the 60s, it wasn't seen in the same light, I can imagine a mother telling a young child "don't go near the canal or the dirty bargees will take you away" or something similar!

 

Contrary to popular belief, the towpaths are not "Public Rights of Way" but carry a status of "Permitted Access" which means the public are allowed to use them with the consent of the owners and conditional upon them meeting any requirements of the owner, presumably including payment. Back in the 1960's, when cycling to work was the norm, there were a lot of cyclists on the towpath around Uxbridge, Rickmansworth, and Watford, and probably more as you got closer to London.

 

Ironicly there were very few Cyclists in Birmingham where the BCN towpath was walled off from public access. Entrance could only be achived by renting a key from a canal office, which opened the 6ft high access doors adjacent to most of the road bridges.

Edited February 15, 2014 by David Schweizer

[Higgs]

Sooner or later, CRT are expecting to go solo. The EA get something from the government called - Flood Defence "Grant in Aid". This, from googling, is over 500 million pounds a year. If flood defence is part of the usefullness of the canal system, do CRT not have a reasonable claim to some "Grant in Aid"? It's all well and good having appeals, but doesn't look likely that the canals could expect any consideration for aid.

 

Maybe 50 million a year.

[Mick and Maggie]

The Canal and River Trust is taking donations at £25 a time to clean up the mess left by the floods. 38 degrees however will accept any amount of money and will put the donated money where its needed - in support of people in need. Immediate practical help for those who've been flooded out of their house and home.

Click Here to give