Big brother is watching you ....

[pelicanafloat]

....and you might as well get used to it!

 

 

Having read the CaRT document on tow path management I can't help but ask quite what everyone finds so much a problem.? To me the writing is quite clear, and the objectives not so extreme that give me great concern. I reckon it is only a matter of time before more restrictive actions will be placed before us unless we make an effort to abide by the rules. And it is no good blaming anyone else if your particular angst is one of selfish intent such as along the lines of "well, I don't need all this or that facility, I'm more than happy just to .... you fill in whatever selfish desire you happen to want"

 

The whole point is that we are using the system of canals (and rivers) either as a means of relaxation, or a place from which to live and or work in. In some respects the simplest observation is, if you don't move your boat then put it in a marina; if you wish to live and or work on board, then stick it in a marina, or pay a residential mooring online on the cut; if you just want to be a bona fide continuous cruiser, then fine, but why should you not expect to pay something for the privilege of being able to move around. At some point everyone will have to wake up to the basic concept that staying put is one thing, moving around is another, and those who do the moving are the ones who are a} providing some level of attraction to those others who use the system, and b} they are also the ones most likely to have an accident involving damage, and c} those who are moving around are making use of the provided facilities.... and these facilities need to be used with respect and left as one would wish to find them.

 

The point I'm trying to make is we have a choice. By unselfish open involvement with CaRT we can improve our existing facility, promote what we have, improve in a manner welcomed by all (not just boaters), and lastly, fine those whose only objective is to go round acting in a selfish or bullying way quite out of order with social harmony. And finally, if we act in an open manner in our discussions with authority, then they will in their communications with ourselves have to show the same level of openness and fairness that we all desire.

 

No doubt that will not be to everyone's liking :-)

 

And while we are on the subject of things not liked, you aught to get used to the idea that one day those who move around will need to do so with the correct authority to do so. Insurance will be involved, as will the proper use of facilities. You cannot expect that in today's level of communication that the use of mobile positioning won't be a prerequisite of anyone wishing to go CCing - it is not so much a disadvantage as one would expect. In fact if I was a betting person, I'd go off and put money on it!

 

Cheers!

 

Stewart

[MtB]

....and you might as well get used to it!

 

 

Having read the CaRT document on tow path management...

 

Do you have a link to this please?

 

Thanks.

 

 

MtB

[Paul's Nulife4-2]

Hi ya Stewart,

Well,this is going to be a good one !.

You can borrow my tin hat if you like.

[Guest]

 

Do you have a link to this please?

 

Thanks.

 

 

MtB

 

I presume he's referring to the document cotswoldsman linked to a few days back-

 

http://canalrivertrust.org.uk/media/library/5413.pdf

[junior]

CALLLING; NickNorman, The Dog House, Carlt, Blackrose and Dave Mayall....

 

Over to you!!

 

(Gets popcorn out)

[Stilllearning]

....and you might as well get used to it!

 

 

Having read the CaRT document on tow path management I can't help but ask quite what everyone finds so much a problem.? To me the writing is quite clear, and the objectives not so extreme that give me great concern. I reckon it is only a matter of time before more restrictive actions will be placed before us unless we make an effort to abide by the rules. And it is no good blaming anyone else if your particular angst is one of selfish intent such as along the lines of "well, I don't need all this or that facility, I'm more than happy just to .... you fill in whatever selfish desire you happen to want"

 

The whole point is that we are using the system of canals (and rivers) either as a means of relaxation, or a place from which to live and or work in. In some respects the simplest observation is, if you don't move your boat then put it in a marina; if you wish to live and or work on board, then stick it in a marina, or pay a residential mooring online on the cut; if you just want to be a bona fide continuous cruiser, then fine, but why should you not expect to pay something for the privilege of being able to move around. At some point everyone will have to wake up to the basic concept that staying put is one thing, moving around is another, and those who do the moving are the ones who are a} providing some level of attraction to those others who use the system, and b} they are also the ones most likely to have an accident involving damage, and c} those who are moving around are making use of the provided facilities.... and these facilities need to be used with respect and left as one would wish to find them.

 

The point I'm trying to make is we have a choice. By unselfish open involvement with CaRT we can improve our existing facility, promote what we have, improve in a manner welcomed by all (not just boaters), and lastly, fine those whose only objective is to go round acting in a selfish or bullying way quite out of order with social harmony. And finally, if we act in an open manner in our discussions with authority, then they will in their communications with ourselves have to show the same level of openness and fairness that we all desire.

 

No doubt that will not be to everyone's liking :-)

 

And while we are on the subject of things not liked, you aught to get used to the idea that one day those who move around will need to do so with the correct authority to do so. Insurance will be involved, as will the proper use of facilities. You cannot expect that in today's level of communication that the use of mobile positioning won't be a prerequisite of anyone wishing to go CCing - it is not so much a disadvantage as one would expect. In fact if I was a betting person, I'd go off and put money on it!

 

Cheers!

 

Stewart

Yup, can't see a lot to disagree with there.

[bottle]

.

 

 

 

 

 

This post is intentionally blank.

[Guest]

CALLLING; NickNorman, The Dog House, Carlt, Blackrose and Dave Mayall....

 

Over to you!!

 

(Gets popcorn out)

 

Don't drag me into it...

.

 

 

 

 

 

This post is intentionally blank.

 

[Bod]

.

 

 

 

 

 

This post is intentionally blank.

 

 

What can I say...

 

Bod

[pelicanafloat]

Well at least its better than the norm posting a load of pretentious yawns :-)

 

I just think it desirable to have proper debate and of course if you have nothing to say it an improvement over nothing

[MtB]

I didn't see anything difficult to understand or contentious in the document TDH kindly linked to.

 

But then I don't see any problem with the CC Guidelines either

 

 

MtB

[Higgs]

You cannot expect that in today's level of communication that the use of mobile positioning won't be a prerequisite of anyone wishing to go CCing - it is not so much a disadvantage as one would expect. In fact if I was a betting person, I'd go off and put money on it!

 

Cheers!

 

Stewart

 

I don't think CRT, for the sake of administration, have any right to know where I and the boat are at all times. I sincerely hope you will be out of pocket, with your bet.

[pelicanafloat]

I don't think CRT, for the sake of administration, have any right to know where I and the boat are at all times. I sincerely hope you will be out of pocket, with your bet.

I welcome the debate :-).

 

I happen to believe the opposite in so much that so much of what we are involved in is already noted by others. You can use your debit/credit card, be on the internet, be on CC TV, and other things quite out of our control yet we accept this intrusion as part of our lifestyle. But as soon as I suggest that the intrusion could be used as a positive benefit to those in authority, it considered in a bad light, why?

[Higgs]

I welcome the debate :-).

 

I happen to believe the opposite in so much that so much of what we are involved in is already noted by others. You can use your debit/credit card, be on the internet, be on CC TV, and other things quite out of our control yet we accept this intrusion as part of our lifestyle. But as soon as I suggest that the intrusion could be used as a positive benefit to those in authority, it considered in a bad light, why?

 

 

I don't think it's positive at all. It's no business of mine if you're loose with your identity. Get yourself fitted with an ASBO ankle strap. I don't accept any unnecessary intrusion and what you're suggesting is lazy admin for the admins benefit. I don't see having a licenced boat gives that kind of permission.

 

I think you have to understand, having a boat gives a degree of free movement and also the ability to remove oneself from the 'grime'. I would very much draw the line at tagging.

[kevinl]

I reckon it is only a matter of time before more restrictive actions will be placed before us unless we make an effort to abide by the rules.

 

All that's being said is that brand new CCer's from now on be aware that if they don't follow the CC rules in the first year they won't be allowed to have a CC licence next time, what's the problem with that. Go into the new to boating section or chat some nights and you'll see people openly say they are going to get a boat and break CC rules as they need to be in a specific area. One said they'd have to understand as she had kids in school so she'd get away with it, plenty seem to think they won't get noticed. I actually think the CC rules could be relaxed in the winter without any problem.

K

[DaveGood]

I welcome the debate :-).

 

I happen to believe the opposite in so much that so much of what we are involved in is already noted by others. You can use your debit/credit card, be on the internet, be on CC TV, and other things quite out of our control yet we accept this intrusion as part of our lifestyle. But as soon as I suggest that the intrusion could be used as a positive benefit to those in authority, it considered in a bad light, why?

 

Pelicanafloat, these intrusions are already, and always have been, a positive benefit to "those in authority", and them alone, which include global tax avoiding corporations that have far more impact on our government, and our laws, then any votes the people of this country may make in an election. I'm not really sure what your point is. That we're not spied on enough? That bueracrats and corporation drones are allowed to monitor our personal lives in extreme detail while we are not allowed to do the same to them?

 

And that this is somehow to our benefit?

 

DaveGood

Edited February 4, 2014 by DaveGood

[Higgs]

You could take the argument all the way to having everyone fitted with chips, like dogs.

[Barry]

I don't think anyone is going to get away with tagging a boat. That would be a massive invasion of privacy.

 

I can, however, see CRT investing more on monitoring moorings to see that people don't overstay.

[Stilllearning]

I don't think anyone is going to get away with tagging a boat. That would be a massive invasion of privacy.

 

I can, however, see CRT investing more on monitoring moorings to see that people don't overstay.

In the near future anyone with a car will be having electronic tax discs that will be almost tagging.

Using a mobile phone enables one to be monitored for position and what we say and who we talk to.

Similarly using credit/debit cards monitors what we spend and where.

CCTV everywhere informs "them" where we are.

What is there about having a tag on one's boat that actually does anything other than let CRT know when one overstays in a parking bay (which is what a mooring is).

There are rules attached to being involved in most aspects of modern life, including using the canals, so why should one be allowed to flout said rules?

[Higgs]

In the near future anyone with a car will be having electronic tax discs that will be almost tagging.

Using a mobile phone enables one to be monitored for position and what we say and who we talk to.

Similarly using credit/debit cards monitors what we spend and where.

CCTV everywhere informs "them" where we are.

What is there about having a tag on one's boat that actually does anything other than let CRT know when one overstays in a parking bay (which is what a mooring is).

There are rules attached to being involved in most aspects of modern life, including using the canals, so why should one be allowed to flout said rules?

 

 

Do you have curtains up at your windows?

Edited February 4, 2014 by Higgs

[Barry]

In the near future anyone with a car will be having electronic tax discs that will be almost tagging.

Using a mobile phone enables one to be monitored for position and what we say and who we talk to.

Similarly using credit/debit cards monitors what we spend and where.

CCTV everywhere informs "them" where we are.

What is there about having a tag on one's boat that actually does anything other than let CRT know when one overstays in a parking bay (which is what a mooring is).

There are rules attached to being involved in most aspects of modern life, including using the canals, so why should one be allowed to flout said rules?

 

I think its about who is doing what if you see what I mean. If CRT wish to put cctv on every bridge, for example, so that they can record what boat is where, and when, then that is entirely up to them.

 

However if CRT says "it is a condition of your license that your boat carries a gps position indicator and it must be switched on at all times" then my instinctive response will be "you can **** RIGHT off". I see that as an imposition that I am not prepared to accept

 

Now if I, as a fine upstanding citizen say to CRT "please provide me with a gps position indicator because I want to show you where I am at all times" then that is an entirely different matter - but not something I would volunteer for

[pelicanafloat]

Tis strange, but the idea of monitoring is not the old fashioned one of scalar vision that I'm being accused of championng. The whole point of effective and, as it happens latent monitoring, is that it doesn't enter the real world until a specific event triggers it. Then and only then is your circumstance noted. So by all means be a bit uncomfortable with the idea but don't just jump to the first negative conclusion that in your ignorance you ignore everything else.

 

I'll say it again, having on board some sort of mobile monitoring can be of positive benefit. Most of the time for all intent and purpose the system will be lying dormant. Of course, you could tell it never to wake up till you want it, but perhaps that will devalue its use. Perhaps that will be the way forward - insistance that monitoring be allowed but also tolerance to allow it to be switched off till it becomes accepted and the norm.

 

Nope, I feel that the confusion surrounding the supposed interference of one independence is a bit like the Emperor's paradox .... you can continue to feel you are invisible if that's what you want.

 

Edited to add, that this was not addressed to anyone in particular, just the reader :-)

Edited February 4, 2014 by pelicanafloat

[DaveGood]

Pelicanafloat,

 

Ok, obfuscation seems to be your forte. You make it clear enough that you know we are already under intense scrutiny by all sorts of "Authorities" from corporations who monitor our spending and online habits to better target how they can extract yet more money from us, to Governments and police worldwide watching our phones to log where we are and who we talk too.

 

Now you waffle on about some sort of "Voluntary" monitoring system we install ourselves and switch on.

 

What exactly is it you want to see done?

 

DaveGood

 

PS... and Why?

Edited February 4, 2014 by DaveGood

[Stilllearning]

Pelicanafloat,

 

Ok, obfuscation seems to be your forte. You make it clear enough that you know we are already under intense scrutiny by all sorts of "Authorities" from corporations who monitor our spending and online habits to better target how they can extract yet more money from us, to Governments and police worldwide watching our phones to log where we are and who we talk too.

 

Now you waffle on about some sort of "Voluntary" monitoring system we install ourselves and switch on.

 

What exactly is it you want to see done?

 

DaveGood

 

PS... and Why?

Perhaps he just would like it if boaters obeyed the existing rules, thereby avoiding the need for more precise monitoring of our movements.

[pelicanafloat]

Pelicanafloat,

 

Ok, obfuscation seems to be your forte. You make it clear enough that you know we are already under intense scrutiny by all sorts of "Authorities" from corporations who monitor our spending and online habits to better target how they can extract yet more money from us, to Governments and police worldwide watching our phones to log where we are and who we talk too.

 

Now you waffle on about some sort of "Voluntary" monitoring system we install ourselves and switch on.

 

What exactly is it you want to see done?

 

DaveGood

 

PS... and Why?

Lol, I don't even know what obfuscation means, my choice not to turn on the dictionary and have a look. I'll just assume it a good forte :-)

 

I'm almost convinced that we can't get away from the world of monitoring. So, if we are asked to accept its use without debate there will be one almighty rumpus! So, my thoughts are we should perhaps maybe consider what would happen if this subject came up.... not stick it under the carpet!

 

I am not a cookie reader, nor a fortune teller. I just see the next step as inevitable. I may be wrong, but then again, this is a forum .... so I present it as a possible scenario