Shower pump on/off swirtch

[Jeanie920]

The on/ off switch on our shower has been faulty for a while but last week a wire came off . When we looked the connector had snapped. We took the switch off and got a new connector but when we put it back it wouldn't work. its got a grey wire and a red wire. When we put the two wires on one connector it works or at least makes a noise as though its working. When we put the two wires seperately on the switch connectors the switch doesnt switch on.can anyone help please?

Jean

[Scholar Gypsy]

It might be helpful to see a photo of the connectors (are the spades or chocolate boxes?), but it sounds like you need a new switch.

 

Also, does the pump work properly (your comment "it makes a noise ... " made me wonder). If not then it may also be useful to measure the voltage delivered i) to the switch when it is turned off and iii) to the shower when the switch is on. In each case you would need to find a negative return wire. If there are other dodgy connections in the circuit that should help you find them.

[davidc]

One of the best ways to check a switch if you do not have a meter is three lengths of wire a touch battery and bulb in holder if pos.

One length of wire from a switch connector to battery terminal which one does not matter the second length from other battery connection to one side of bulb, and finally third length of wire from other side of bulb to final connection on switch.

 

if switching on switch does not turn bulb on its a broken switch if it does the problem then is the pump or pump connection.

[by'eck]

The on/ off switch on our shower has been faulty for a while but last week a wire came off . When we looked the connector had snapped. We took the switch off and got a new connector but when we put it back it wouldn't work. its got a grey wire and a red wire. When we put the two wires on one connector it works or at least makes a noise as though its working. When we put the two wires seperately on the switch connectors the switch doesnt switch on.can anyone help please?

Jean

 

Sounds like the switch is faulty.

[Alan de Enfield]

One of the best ways to check a switch if you do not have a meter is three lengths of wire a touch battery and bulb in holder if pos.

One length of wire from a switch connector to battery terminal which one does not matter the second length from other battery connection to one side of bulb, and finally third length of wire from other side of bulb to final connection on switch.

 

if switching on switch does not turn bulb on its a broken switch if it does the problem then is the pump or pump connection.

 

Or the bulb could be 'blown'.

[davidc]

Or the bulb could be 'blown'.

OK need two+ bulbs

come to think also Two battery's

 

 

 

 

[Captain Fizz]

Having bought all that, you may as well have bought the meter!

[smileypete]

As others say a pic of the switch would help.

 

If it's somewhere fairly well protected from splashes then it could be replaced with an architrave switch and surface mounting box from the likes of Screwfix, Toolstation or electrical distributors.

 

 

http://www.toolstation.com/shop/p83684

http://www.toolstation.com/shop/p35496

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

[Jeanie920]

Not very good at this posting pics thing. Never done it before. The first pic is the switch which fits inside the shower. There is a cupboard at the side of the shower where the wiring is.. Simple push/pull switch. Has been working fine. The grey connection wire has been loose for ages and kept coming off and I kept putting it back on. Then the connector came off and I bought another connector but now it doesnt work. Does it matter which wire goes where?

Jean

Edited January 25, 2014 by Jeanie920

[Scholar Gypsy]

 

 

Not very good at this posting pics thing. Never done it before. The first pic is the switch which fits inside the shower. There is a cupboard at the side of the shower where the wiring is.. Simple push/pull switch. Has been working fine. The grey connection wire has been loose for ages and kept coming off and I kept putting it back on. Then the connector came off and I bought another connector but now it doesnt work. Does it matter which wire goes where?

Jean

 

No, it won't matter.

 

I assume the ring connector, when crimped, grips on bare wire, not the insulation. I assume you still have the two small grub screws that hold the ring connectors onto the terminal?

 

We have the same switch on our boat, on our water pump. It has lasted about 20 years, I think. I don't think that model is designed to operate in a wet/splashy environment. So my hunch is that it is time for a new switch.

 

It may also be worth cleaning the pump, removing hair, & putting vaseline on the impeller at the same time.

Edited January 25, 2014 by Scholar Gypsy

[ditchcrawler]

Not very good at this posting pics thing. Never done it before. The first pic is the switch which fits inside the shower. There is a cupboard at the side of the shower where the wiring is.. Simple push/pull switch. Has been working fine. The grey connection wire has been loose for ages and kept coming off and I kept putting it back on. Then the connector came off and I bought another connector but now it doesnt work. Does it matter which wire goes where?

Jean

The lefthand terminal looks as if it has been hot

[NMEA]

If connecting the conductors activated the pump as you say it can only be the switch, or possibly a badly made crimp, (which goes to my hobby horse that one can not inspect pre insulated terminal crimp quality) At least the conductors still look bright despite being bare copper, so that's a good start, if you can get a new switch with ring terminals so much the better but if not just crimp in some new terminals to suit the new switch. Personally I can't use those architrave switches (neat as they look) as it means screw pressure direct on the strands and there is no room to fit bootlace ferrules to overcome that. Make sure any switch you buy is rated high enough for the pump wattage

[Alan Saunders]

It is impossible to pull the wire out of a properly crimped terminal. The terminal on the red wire in your photo appears never to have been crimped.

Also, the conductors of the grey (blue?) wire have been twisted which will reduce the strength of the joint.

See www.tb-training.co.uk/MarineE04.html by Tony Brooks (a frequent and knowledgable contributor to this forum).

(or Google good electrical crimp terminal)

 

Below: Crimped terminals (the left one is poorly done) - note the crimping of the insulation.

 

 

 

I would go further than NMEA and say that pre-insulated crimps are always inferior to the uninsulated ones.

 

Alan

[smileypete]

I would go further than NMEA and say that pre-insulated crimps are always inferior to the uninsulated ones.

 

 

Go on then, explain how an insulated crimp done with a decent ratchet crimp and terminals is in any way inferior to an uninsulated crimp.

 

As for being unable to inspect them, it's very easy to see at a glance whether a decent ratchet crimper has been used and whether the terminal has suffered overheating at any point, and that is usually all you need to know.

 

The architrave switches I've used a few times and the terminals are smaller so there's less of an issue with not using ferrules. It is perfectly possible to use an uninsulated ferrule with them, and even using an insulated one should be quite possible with a little improvisation, don't see why NMEA thinks otherwise.

 

The architrave switches have a much more positive switching action that the usual pull switch and go quite nicely under a gunnel, and are easy to source if they need to be replaced.

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

Edited January 26, 2014 by smileypete

[NMEA]

I've tried getting bootlaces In when replacing corroded and green cables on existing switches Pete, too little room in the switch case on all the ones I've seen (I'm not talking about the terminal hole for the conductor), as you say it may be possible with some improvisation but that takes time and is therefore OK if its your own time but not if you are paying me for instance. I am not permitted under either of the ultra low voltage standards that I work to to simply screw down to bare strands so it is not a debatable subject, the decision is made for me.

[smileypete]

I've tried getting bootlaces In when replacing corroded and green cables on existing switches Pete, too little room in the switch case on all the ones I've seen (I'm not talking about the terminal hole for the conductor), as you say it may be possible with some improvisation but that takes time and is therefore OK if its your own time but not if you are paying me for instance. I am not permitted under either of the ultra low voltage standards that I work to to simply screw down to bare strands so it is not a debatable subject, the decision is made for me.

 

Green wire, nice, sounds like wire with tinned strands wasn't used when it should have been.

 

Anyway, the issue of room shouldn't be a problem at all with uninsulated ferrules, they can also be trimmed down if there's not much depth in the terminal:

 

 

I just squash them on with flat faced jewellers pliers , even after screwing them down pretty hard the strands aren't damaged in any way (right pic). A set of a few sizes in quantities of 100 can be had for a few pounds from CPC.

 

As for the screw terminals in an architrave switch, they're pretty small so using them on wire without ferrules wouldn't be a problem for the OP (pic shows 1mm² wire):

 

 

Even for insulated ferrules, there's about 1/4" between switch and pattress box which should be enough.

 

So, for someone with little tools like the OP, I'd say such a connection is definitely fit for purpose in a shower pump switch, and far better than a poorly made crimp connection.

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

Edited January 28, 2014 by smileypete

[Jeanie920]

Hi

Thanks everyone for the replies.Unfortunately although we have a crimping tool we cant see to be able to make the crimp tight. We bought an on/off light switch and we have wired it to that at the moment and its working. I still don't think that there's anything wrong with the original switch. I think it's a connection problem.We lost one of the screws and cant find a similar size screw anywhere. We been in all the DIY stores around. We also seem to have trouble crimping the wire despite buying new crimps and a crimping tool. The wire keeps coming off. In the meantime Ive sent for a switch off ebay - the same as the one we've taken off. Hopefully it will come with screws. I prefer this type of switch because I find it more convenient to have the switch in the shower enclosure. It fits into a sloping horizontal shelf and there's a hole through the tile into which the switch fits.

Jean

[ditchcrawler]

Hi

Thanks everyone for the replies.Unfortunately although we have a crimping tool we cant see to be able to make the crimp tight. We bought an on/off light switch and we have wired it to that at the moment and its working. I still don't think that there's anything wrong with the original switch. I think it's a connection problem.We lost one of the screws and cant find a similar size screw anywhere. We been in all the DIY stores around. We also seem to have trouble crimping the wire despite buying new crimps and a crimping tool. The wire keeps coming off. In the meantime Ive sent for a switch off ebay - the same as the one we've taken off. Hopefully it will come with screws. I prefer this type of switch because I find it more convenient to have the switch in the shower enclosure. It fits into a sloping horizontal shelf and there's a hole through the tile into which the switch fits.

Jean

Its possible you are using the wrong size crimp or the wrong notch on the crimping tool, maybe a photo of what you are using?

[smileypete]

Hi

Thanks everyone for the replies.Unfortunately although we have a crimping tool we cant see to be able to make the crimp tight. We bought an on/off light switch and we have wired it to that at the moment and its working. I still don't think that there's anything wrong with the original switch. I think it's a connection problem.We lost one of the screws and cant find a similar size screw anywhere. We been in all the DIY stores around. We also seem to have trouble crimping the wire despite buying new crimps and a crimping tool. The wire keeps coming off. In the meantime Ive sent for a switch off ebay - the same as the one we've taken off. Hopefully it will come with screws. I prefer this type of switch because I find it more convenient to have the switch in the shower enclosure. It fits into a sloping horizontal shelf and there's a hole through the tile into which the switch fits.

 

Good crimp connections really need a decent 'ratcheting' crimper plus decent terminals in the correct size from a reputable trade supplier The terminals offered by the likes of Maplins or Halfords may not be decent enough!

 

For the odd connection maybe best to get a friendly boatyard person, auto electrician or fellow 'technical boater' to help and see how they do it.

 

Its possible you are using the wrong size crimp or the wrong notch on the crimping tool, maybe a photo of what you are using?

 

In this pic the top tool is a ratcheting crimper which are usually decent enough and the bottom is an example of a crimper which are usually very cheaply made so really must be avoided!

 

 

When making the connection try stripping about 6mm of insulation off the wire and try it inside a red terminal. If the wire is too big to go in by about 12mm try a blue terminal which is the next size up. Here's a youtube video with a bit more info:

 

 

For terminals a online motor parts supplier should be fine, the last lot I bought from the Ebay shop of 'alltradedirect' which were decent enough:

 

http://www.alltradedirect.co.uk/

http://www.ebay.co.uk/usr/all_trade_direct

 

RapidOnline or CableCraft do good ones but the postage is a bit of a killer for small orders.

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

Edited February 5, 2014 by smileypete