Anchor size

[Phoenix_V]

I see that they managed to drop the anchor at some point in this debacle but it doesnt appear to have worked.

 

I presume the captain is at present unoccupied so maybe he can comment on appropriate sizing for us.

 

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26050037

[Paul's Nulife4-2]

Hi ya,

I have a 41ft X11ft live aboard , I only ever use it nowadays in Rivers,Estuaries,Harbours & Coastal & until very recently anchored all the time. Most nights infact. I have several to choose from now, in order to suit what's on the bottom. At the moment

I use a Main 25kilo Danforth type as a Bower,on a swivel.then anything up to 60 Mtr of Chain,with a shackle every 5 Mrs (incase I have to cut loose) going up to the snubber,Lock & winch.

I can then attach a second anchor on 5 Mtr of chain on the trip line ring on the main Bower again via a swivel, For piece of mind at night, or if I'm expecting a blow.

This means I have an 20kilo Anchor, 5Mts of chain,a swivel.Then the main 25kilo Anchor & anything up to 60Mts of chain,then a Snubber, then all secured via a chain lock to the Bollard, then around the winch down into the chain locker where it's attached to the re enforced Stem.

I also have a 20kilo Danforth type as a Kedge.& a fishermans anchor if I need it

Yep,I've lost a few over the years,but found a few as well !.& only dragged twice,Not pleasent (shudder).

Hope that sort of makes sense.

(I've also got a small sea anchor & or droge that I have messed about with in practice,& found very handy on one occasion,but thats a whole different story)

Edited February 5, 2014 by Paul's Nulife4-2

[Paul's Nulife4-2]

[bigcol]

So got my Anchor 25 kr Brittany

As per advice now got my windlass manual with great advice and help from the forum,many many thanks

 

All I've got to do now is get 12mm calibrated chain then I'm sorted!

 

The above both bought through eBay, saving pounds!

 

So how can I get 25 metres of 12mm calibrated chain, that won't blow the complete budget! Lol

 

Do folks really know how much it costs phew!! I'm barfing at the price, I mean it's just chain lol

 

I'm being tight, naturally tight,I know I'm being tight cant help it!

 

Once I've sorted this, it be the generator next,and then inverter, I've already missed out on a new inverter bargain! advertised on the forum, but my pockets too deep.!

 

Is there a cure?

Edited February 8, 2014 by bigcol

[Paul's Nulife4-2]

I got 60mts of calibrated chain from gsproducts (I think that's what they where called,e bay is your best bet.) The overall price deliverd, including 12 chain connectors was £600 ish a few years back. Somewhere around that anyway.

Edited February 8, 2014 by Paul's Nulife4-2

[bigcol]

. 600 quid!! 600 quid !!! How many mtrs was that!

 

It's just chain! Lol

 

It's got to be eBay lol, so my anchor/ windlass project will have to wait, for someone to decide that he doesn't really want chain on his boat anymore, and it's got to be someone with 12mm, and calibrated so what are my chances?

 

You really don't need all that chain do you Paul, in fact it's in your garden, been their for months, in your way,now you want to sell it to me

 

Col

 

PS As its a manual windlass, and I only having it in case of emergency, do I have to have callebrated? Serious money saving question?

 

Colin

Edited February 8, 2014 by bigcol

[bizzard]

A temporary substitute for chain can be a weight, say 10-15lb's tied to the rode-anchor rope about 6feet from the end of the anchors stock. Tie two knots in the rope an inch or so apart and shackle your weight in between them. This will help to keep the anchor flat on the bottom.

[Paul's Nulife4-2]

yes it's frightening isn't it bigcol. I'm sure it was about that,because I was in shock to for a day or two as well. I had 60Mts (35on the Bow,20 on the Kedge, 5 on a second Add on Bower if required for bad weather ect.or any mix n mach combination giving choices to conditions & Anchorage) But in fairness,it's been heavily used , Most nights at one point,& there's a lot to be said for a good night's worry free sleep whilst putting your faith,life & home in a bit of chain & an anchor or two.So if safe to do so The more the merrier !. Pluss if you have to loose some as a result of a UN helpful anchor,it's no biggie.

Do you actually need calibrated chain,or can you put up with the odd slip or two for your type of expected use ?.

Or maybe a Chum line weight ad Bizzard suggest may help.

Edited February 8, 2014 by Paul's Nulife4-2

[Paul's Nulife4-2]

Don't forget in 5 to 7 meters of water,I would personally routinely put out 25Mts of chain, if in Good, Settled weather just to stop for lunch or do some chart work, More if stopping for a while to do some shopping or sight seeing, & Much more if swinging circle allows if stopping for a night or two or the weather got up. But that's just me. I don't pretend to be right.

[Alan de Enfield]

Do you actually need calibrated chain,or can you put up with the odd slip or two for your type of expected use ?.

Or maybe a Chum line weight ad Bizzard suggest may help.

 

The problem can be that it will slip, or it may jam.

I'd rather buy once and know it works, than buy some non-calibrated, find it didnt work, and then have to buy the calibrated stuff anyway.

 

I know setting up a boat costs a lot but at the end of the day look at an anchor as safety equipment like fire extinguishers, etc - Prioritise.

Whats your boat/home worth now, and whats it worth after its been over a weir, whats your life worth.

 

I repeat what I have said before - my anchoring experience is 'lumpy water' but the princilpes are the same.

 

You can skimp on some areas (- do you need an inverter today ? -) but some areas you just have to spend the money

[Naughty Cal]

Col - anything really, maybe a lump of concrete, a cast iron weight, a steel weight - 10kg, 15kg, 20 kg

 

The idea is to keep the tail end of the anchor (where the chain attaches) parallel to the river bottom, when the boat 'surges' in the flow / tide it lifts the front of the boat which lifts the tail of the anchor meaning the flukes are not dug in at the optimim angle and the anchor could drag, If an anchor is 'heavy enough' and the chain is long enough to absorb the lift and fall then everyhing is hunky-dory.

 

If the anchor is a 'bit light' then the lift and fall of the chain could lift the tail of the anchor - however if you have a weight tied onto the chain (literally ties on with a bit of 8mm 'rope') then this additional weight will take the 'rise and fall' of the chain without affecting the anchor.

 

This is all 'worse case scenario' but I would rather be a 'bit over the top' and know that once the anchor is down it'll keep the boat in place.

Most of my years boating have been on Sea boats and it is common practice to anchor and you get used to it - but - as narrowboaters (or Fat-Boats) we dont tend to anchor unless its an emergency and its then we want it to definately hold.

 

Be happy & keep safe

 

Edit for fat finger spoling

If the movement of the boat is such that it is pulling the anchor up off the bed then you have not got enough chain or rope out.

 

The problem can be that it will slip, or it may jam.

I'd rather buy once and know it works, than buy some non-calibrated, find it didnt work, and then have to buy the calibrated stuff anyway.

 

I know setting up a boat costs a lot but at the end of the day look at an anchor as safety equipment like fire extinguishers, etc - Prioritise.

Whats your boat/home worth now, and whats it worth after its been over a weir, whats your life worth.

 

I repeat what I have said before - my anchoring experience is 'lumpy water' but the princilpes are the same.

 

You can skimp on some areas (- do you need an inverter today ? -) but some areas you just have to spend the money

We use our anchor a lot on the river as well. Sometimes it's a better prospect to have a night on the hook then having a night on a busy river mooring

[Alan de Enfield]

If the movement of the boat is such that it is pulling the anchor up off the bed then you have not got enough chain or rope out.

 

We use our anchor a lot on the river as well. Sometimes it's a better prospect to have a night on the hook then having a night on a busy river mooring

 

Agreed - except where the anchor is undersize for the boat.

The OP has stated that he is unable to lift an anchor that would be a suitable weight for his boat and has purchased a lighter (undersized) one. Better to have some sort of anchor than non - and now to optimise what he has got.

[Paul's Nulife4-2]

Fortress Anchor ! Much lighter to manage,& Arguably stronger with better holding capabilities I'm some situations. Deployment of 2 Smaller Connect Anchors 5Mts or so apart on the same main chain the combined weight of which exceeds the one big anchor I would use !, A method I use if necessary, Gives piece of mind especially at night, Run More chain out !, These might all be possibilitys or variants over letting go just 1 big hard to manage Anchor. But a bit of practice & messing about should hone your anchoring preferences & techneacs.

 

One thing I've learned,it's got very little to do with the size, it's more about how you use it..

Edited February 8, 2014 by Paul's Nulife4-2

[Naughty Cal]

 

Agreed - except where the anchor is undersize for the boat.

The OP has stated that he is unable to lift an anchor that would be a suitable weight for his boat and has purchased a lighter (undersized) one. Better to have some sort of anchor than non - and now to optimise what he has got.

Even more case for letting more chain out to keep the anchor flat against the river/sea bed!

[Alan Saunders]

… Pluss if you have to loose some as a result of a UN helpful anchor,it's no biggie. …

Thirty five years ago I had an 18' (~1 ton) fishing boat. The only time I did not use a tripping line I was anchored west of the 'Blocks' at Southsea - chart marked 'Numerous Cables' . l caught no fish, I noticed a piece of paper in the water; a £5 note from my back pocket! No amount of power from the oversized outboard could break the anchor free. Back then, the loss of £20 worth of gear (and my fiver) was a biggie to me (maybe £200 today) .

 

There are many arguments for and against tripping lines and other methods of tripping a fouled anchor. I would not faff around with one in an emergency. I would not trust any single anchor if there is a chance of the current changing direction whilst I am asleep or not on-board.

 

. 600 quid!! 600 quid !!! How many mtrs was that! It's just chain! Lol

 

It's got to be eBay lol, so my anchor/ windlass project will have to wait, for someone to decide that he doesn't really want chain on his boat anymore, and it's got to be someone with 12mm, and calibrated so what are my chances?

. . .

 

It has to be calibrated to the size of the links, not the diameter of the bar used to make it (e.g. Diam.: 12mm, pitch: 36mm, width: 40mm). The MOD/Navy dispose of both 'used' and unused chain but it tends to be in larger sizes - e.g. 27.5m of 19mm anchor chain reduced from £1,900 to £1,000. It may not specify 'calibrated' but the certificate may indicate that it is?

 

I would compromise with, say, 20m of chain (good for 7m depth) plus 50m (good for 10-15m depth) or more of nylon rope. Motor up to the anchor, recover 50m of rope by hand (easy) then the 20m of chain with the winch. I have never anchored where I was worried about dragging into less than 10m of water but I would be concerned about dragging into deeper water, e.g. a shipping lane.

 

Naughty Cal may only need 8mm chain at 40% of the cost of 12mm?

 

Much depends on whether the anchor/chain/rove is emergency equipment or to be used frequently. On rivers I deploy my anchor/chain etc. on the foredeck with the tail-end of the rove attached to a dedicated eyebolt. I have never used it on an inland waterway. I do not need to lift the anchor back on-board; it can hang over the bow after the emergency is resolved.

 

Alan (no expertise, just questions about the practical approach to reducing perceived risks).

[Alan de Enfield]

Big Col

 

£8 / metre (better than the chandlery at £15 / metre) Make sure your winch is compatable with 'short links'

Contact him for longer lengths.

 

12mm Chain diameter heavy duty calibrated chain

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/12mm-Galvanised-Chain-x-10-Metres-Short-Link-38mm-/310191625308?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_BoatEquipment_Accessories_SM&hash=item4838dc945c

[Paul's Nulife4-2]

Big Col

 

£8 / metre (better than the chandlery at £15 / metre) Make sure your winch is compatable with 'short links'

Contact him for longer lengths.

 

12mm Chain diameter heavy duty calibrated chain

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/12mm-Galvanised-Chain-x-10-Metres-Short-Link-38mm-/310191625308?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_BoatEquipment_Accessories_SM&hash=item4838dc945c

Although the above advert doesn't seam to be calibrated chain, hence the cheap price ,it is from the same company I got mine from as suggested back in post 30. So may be worth a quick call. (just be sitting down for price). Good luck.

 

My mistake,,it is calibrated,,good find

Edited February 8, 2014 by Paul's Nulife4-2

[Alan de Enfield]

Although the above advert doesn't seam to be calibrated or certificated chain, hence the cheap price ,it is from the same company I got mine from as suggested back in post 30. So may be worth a quick call. (just be sitting down for price). Good luck.

The advert does state

 

"12mm Chain diameter heavy duty calibrated chain"

[Paul's Nulife4-2]

Sorry Alan,my mistake..I was editing my post above,but you beat me to it.

Yes,same company I got mine from @ approximately same price per Mtr, & as I said,I'm happy with mine.

[Grace and Favour]

BigCol

 

 

If you really want to blow your budget - - get stainless steel calibrated chain.

 

It won't rust - - but corrodes your bank account like blazes!

[bigcol]

Thanks folks,

Really Good find !

I will be only using the anchor for emergency use only, ie engine break down or fouled prop on a river

equivalent use to be on the sea, and having a life raft on board. If you know what I mean. Hopefully never be used.

 

Nights choosing to anchor in studland bay,late night b/q, or a night in bankes arms pub are long gone 25 years ago as lulworth cove and Swanage.Back then Fit,and strong,

 

Anyway back to now being a knacker old fart, this windlass gypsy is marked with a code, I know it's 12mm, but now have to find out if short on long link, I thought most anchor chain was short link, but will check, may be order a mtr first,if I can't find out for definate

 

I will be ordering from the link,

 

Grace and favour!

Lol. When I saw the listings re stainless steel they were so expensive, I thought the listings were for lengths,

not price per mtrs. Who buys stainless chaiin at £35 plus a mtr!!

 

Thinking of having 25/30 mtrs as general concesus is that 25 kg anchor is border line, and a short bit of line securing to boat,

 

Last thing I want, is to be in a emergency on the thames ,drop the anchor and chain,and it doesn't hold

 

Really apreciate the ebay find folks, really do!

 

 

Col

Edited February 9, 2014 by bigcol

[Paul's Nulife4-2]

Liferafts,

 

Don't get me started, my Second Liferaft is now 10years old, Been serviced twice, Probably spent nearly £1000 on it, ( Probably the same amount on the first one as well ). Purchase price, Bracket, 2 x Services then replace is my self imposed maintenance program for these items. Never used it (Thankfully) And now I've got to buy another one as it's a bit old.

 

But as with the Anchor scenario, it's piece of mind o suppose, Who would have thought my mind would be so expensive !. Still thinking about it,I suppose £100 per year ain't bad after all.

Edited February 9, 2014 by Paul's Nulife4-2

[bigcol]

Big Col£8 / metre (better than the chandlery at £15 / metre) Make sure your winch is compatable with 'short links'Contact him for longer lengths.12mm Chain diameter heavy duty calibrated chainhttp://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/12mm-Galvanised-Chain-x-10-Metres-Short-Link-38mm-/310191625308?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_BoatEquipment_Accessories_SM&hash=item4838dc945c

 

Really pushing the boat out today

 

All ordered, thanks for the link

 

Col

[Alan de Enfield]

Really pushing the boat out today

 

 

Well now you know it wont float away when you do push it out.

 

Never say never - but - there cannot be much left that you now need (or is that wishful thinking ?)

[Naughty Cal]

Thirty five years ago I had an 18' (~1 ton) fishing boat. The only time I did not use a tripping line I was anchored west of the 'Blocks' at Southsea - chart marked 'Numerous Cables' . l caught no fish, I noticed a piece of paper in the water; a £5 note from my back pocket! No amount of power from the oversized outboard could break the anchor free. Back then, the loss of £20 worth of gear (and my fiver) was a biggie to me (maybe £200 today) .

 

There are many arguments for and against tripping lines and other methods of tripping a fouled anchor. I would not faff around with one in an emergency. I would not trust any single anchor if there is a chance of the current changing direction whilst I am asleep or not on-board.

 

 

It has to be calibrated to the size of the links, not the diameter of the bar used to make it (e.g. Diam.: 12mm, pitch: 36mm, width: 40mm). The MOD/Navy dispose of both 'used' and unused chain but it tends to be in larger sizes - e.g. 27.5m of 19mm anchor chain reduced from £1,900 to £1,000. It may not specify 'calibrated' but the certificate may indicate that it is?

 

I would compromise with, say, 20m of chain (good for 7m depth) plus 50m (good for 10-15m depth) or more of nylon rope. Motor up to the anchor, recover 50m of rope by hand (easy) then the 20m of chain with the winch. I have never anchored where I was worried about dragging into less than 10m of water but I would be concerned about dragging into deeper water, e.g. a shipping lane.

 

Naughty Cal may only need 8mm chain at 40% of the cost of 12mm?

 

Much depends on whether the anchor/chain/rove is emergency equipment or to be used frequently. On rivers I deploy my anchor/chain etc. on the foredeck with the tail-end of the rove attached to a dedicated eyebolt. I have never used it on an inland waterway. I do not need to lift the anchor back on-board; it can hang over the bow after the emergency is resolved.

 

Alan (no expertise, just questions about the practical approach to reducing perceived risks).

 

Naughty-Cal has 10mm chain as fitted by Sealine and an oversized 10kg Delta anchor. A little on the heavy side for a 25ft cruiser but on the plus side we have yet to have it drag and have the benefit of an electric winch to retrieve it so weight isnt really an issue.