Wide-Beam Design Project

[Robbo]

 

true, in the market report I used "driven by an ethical outlook", but i figure most people understand what is intended by sustainable i.e. low consumption, small footprint, renewable sources, etc

 

A fully electric propelled boat powered by Hydrogen Fuel Cells is what I think would be the main factor in reducing reliant on oil based fuels.

[Adam Denney]

 

On the other hand I'm a big fan of the pug-nosed bow.

 

 

Ethical outlook? Excuse my cynicism but do me a favour!

 

Yes of course everyone thinks they understand what these terms mean, but unless you're prepared to quantify the consumption, footprint, etc, then they are almost entirely meaningless.

 

If you really look at the figures I very much doubt you'll find that living on boats is very "sustainable" (using your definitions), compared to living in a modest well-insulated flat or small house. I speak from the experience of living on board for 11 years.

 

Nice boat. Its an interesting point which does crop up quite a bit when designing anything deemed a luxury, can any luxury be ethical/sustainable?

 

I think the point is, that its all relative, to what you are designing..

 

you can choose to make stuff which is long lasting and is less wasteful in its lifecycle, or vice versa

[Adam Denney]

 

A fully electric propelled boat powered by Hydrogen Fuel Cells is what I think would be the main factor in reducing reliant on oil based fuels.

 

Sweet, that is a very nice idea.. opens up some variations for the layout too. It never occurred to me to use on a boat, starting to be used more in the automotive industry now

[Robbo]

 

Sweet, that is a very nice idea.. opens up some variations for the layout too. It never occurred to me to use on a boat, starting to be used more in the automotive industry now

 

The benefit is that you can use a household fuel cell (fridge size), these are too big for a car but don't use the rare metals? that a car one uses so are cheaper to produce. - I'm going from memory here, so may not be too accurate.

[Dalslandia]

Interesting project,

 

A boat should be like a Lady shoe, small and beautiful on the outside, big on the inside,

 

it takes some compromisses to make a boat.

 

whats good on the inside is bad for the outside and vise versa.

 

But what to strive towards these days, low energy consumption, low impact on the canal in terms of wash.

A good hull will reduce the living area. so make it longer? a 3-6 L/B ratio.

Hard chine hull, multi chine?

 

Practical, a boat must be practical. to live in and to use in the canals and rivers and lakes.

it is for a reason wide beams look like a NB, to use the aviable space in length, beam and hight as efficient as possible.

 

Will a more modern? look sell? a Glassed in deck with sliding doors like many modern plastic cruisers has?

It will make strange cracking sounds if not clear that bridge :-)

 

soft curves on deck and cabin was popular some years ago, not so practical when the kids is slippery of sun protection or baby oil.

[FadeToScarlet]

 

Is it on a broad canal?

 

Edit: sorry that's what I meant earlier. Obviously if it's on a narrow canal then I can't take my boat onto that canal anyway.

Nope, and not a narrow canal, either.

 

It's the Cam, in the centre of Cambridge, and whilst the arch is wide at the bottom, the top comes in so much you wouldn't fit through with anything but a narrowboat, or a wider boat with no cabin, such as used to work along there.

 

I'll admit, I was being facetious and exploiting your wording.

[Adam Denney]

 

 

 

The benefit is that you can use a household fuel cell (fridge size), these are too big for a car but don't use the rare metals? that a car one uses so are cheaper to produce. - I'm going from memory here, so may not be too accurate.

 

Yeah that makes sense, the expensive part in car fuel cells is the catalyst, which is normally an expensive metal.

In terms of packaging I guess it would be pretty well a straight swap, with the the fuel cell and batteries replacing the engine and fuel tank.

 

Interesting project,

 

A boat should be like a Lady shoe, small and beautiful on the outside, big on the inside,

 

it takes some compromisses to make a boat.

 

whats good on the inside is bad for the outside and vise versa.

 

But what to strive towards these days, low energy consumption, low impact on the canal in terms of wash.

A good hull will reduce the living area. so make it longer? a 3-6 L/B ratio.

Hard chine hull, multi chine?

 

Practical, a boat must be practical. to live in and to use in the canals and rivers and lakes.

it is for a reason wide beams look like a NB, to use the aviable space in length, beam and hight as efficient as possible.

 

Will a more modern? look sell? a Glassed in deck with sliding doors like many modern plastic cruisers has?

It will make strange cracking sounds if not clear that bridge :-)

 

soft curves on deck and cabin was popular some years ago, not so practical when the kids is slippery of sun protection or baby oil.

 

thankyou, very informative and made me laugh

 

I was thinking of incorporating more glass, than many of the current narrowboats.. will see when ive done some packaging ideas and sorted out those compromises.. plenty of food for thought

[boathunter]

A boat should be like a boat, please don't make it into a small flat, if people want a flat there are plenty about.

[Dalslandia]

>

But what to strive towards these days, low energy consumption, low impact on the canal in terms of wash.

A good hull will reduce the living area. so make it longer? a 3-6 L/B ratio.

Hard chine hull, multi chine?<

 

As a canal boat captain I will add to my own thoughts.

 

Making the boat with shallow V bottom is good, as is multi chine, when going into and out of locks, and in narrow canals, this to leave room for the water to pass, downside with this is when there is a shallow canal, the V bottom increase draft at the same weight. if the draft is no problem, it also help when driving, but is less "help full" when dry docking.

 

Having a long transit from the hull side to the propeller help in economical driving, but less room and boyancy.

the angle should not be more then 15 deg on each side on faster ships, 30 deg on slower, and absolutly not more then 35 deg, My picture of this is a 15 deg ending at the prop, starting at a point of 30 deg on the hull side, maximum angle in the middle 35 deg, in a S curve.

 

The stern or transom should end in the water line or just a few inch down this to reduce drag.

 

An Schilling rudder, with twisted leading edge, to reduce drag/noise and improve turning.

 

A transom give more outdore space, but is also a negative thing when turning, especially out of locks and narrow canals/ponds.

 

Not to mention reversing into a lock, I wish my boat didn't have a transom with sharp corners. a round or elliptical shape looks better.

[ditchcrawler]

 

Sweet, that is a very nice idea.. opens up some variations for the layout too. It never occurred to me to use on a boat, starting to be used more in the automotive industry now

Have a look at these http://www.bristolhydrogenboats.co.uk/ http://www.birmingham.ac.uk/research/activity/metallurgy-materials/hydrogen/protium-boat.aspx

[Gingerbeer]

A boat should be like a boat, please don't make it into a small flat, if people want a flat there are plenty about.

 

But how many small flats are actually on the water and you can move them when you get sick of your neighbors?

[bargemast]

>

But what to strive towards these days, low energy consumption, low impact on the canal in terms of wash.

A good hull will reduce the living area. so make it longer? a 3-6 L/B ratio.

Hard chine hull, multi chine?<

 

As a canal boat captain I will add to my own thoughts.

 

Making the boat with shallow V bottom is good, as is multi chine, when going into and out of locks, and in narrow canals, this to leave room for the water to pass, downside with this is when there is a shallow canal, the V bottom increase draft at the same weight. if the draft is no problem, it also help when driving, but is less "help full" when dry docking.

 

Having a long transit from the hull side to the propeller help in economical driving, but less room and boyancy.

the angle should not be more then 15 deg on each side on faster ships, 30 deg on slower, and absolutly not more then 35 deg, My picture of this is a 15 deg ending at the prop, starting at a point of 30 deg on the hull side, maximum angle in the middle 35 deg, in a S curve.

 

The stern or transom should end in the water line or just a few inch down this to reduce drag.

 

An Schilling rudder, with twisted leading edge, to reduce drag/noise and improve turning.

 

A transom give more outdore space, but is also a negative thing when turning, especially out of locks and narrow canals/ponds.

 

Not to mention reversing into a lock, I wish my boat didn't have a transom with sharp corners. a round or elliptical shape looks better.

 

Hello Dalslandia, do you happen to have a photograph that you can post to show what your transom with sharp corners looks like ?

 

Peter.

Edited January 18, 2014 by bargemast

[Dalslandia]

 

 

Hello Dalslandia, do you happen to have a photograph that you can post to show what your transom with sharp corners looks like ?

 

Peter.

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transom_(nautical)

 

Not mine transom but my boat :-)

 

http://www.panoramio.com/photo/39122625

 

Almost half way down on this page...

 

http://dlajt.com/magasinet/?m=201005

[bargemast]

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transom_(nautical)

 

Not mine transom but my boat :-)

 

http://www.panoramio.com/photo/39122625

 

Almost half way down on this page...

 

http://dlajt.com/magasinet/?m=201005

 

Thank you Dalflandia, I see that Dalflandia is a passengerboat and that you are in a very beautiful area.

 

I used to own and operate a converted 38m barge as a daytrip-restaurant boat in France, so we've being doing the same sort of work.

 

Peter.

[Dalslandia]

Peter,

 

Dalslandia is 22,30 X 3,90, draft 1,80 (6ft) max 110 PAX, 50 in the restaurant at the time.

Scania D11 163 HP

Scania D5 ASEA 55 KVA gen set

11kW -15 HP bow thruster

 

The canal is very nice, with high hills and fresh water in the lakes (drinkable)

 

Jan

[peterboat]

I live in a 57 x 12 widebeam with wheelhouse also have a front cratch. whilst the boat is a cruiser stern it is shaped more like a trad as the stern is uplifted and narrows slightly into the wheelhouse so it looks like a Dutch barge. I have solar and all the mod cons I could want. All boats are special to their owners and beautiful to their eyes I look at some boats and wonder what the designer was thinking and others I just think wow.

Mine suits me and I think it looks great I have used the space to best suit me with the best will in the world one size doesnt fit all

 

Peter

[fudd]

I'd like to see something done with the bow that does not replicate the "fat narrowboat" look with the pug nosed, snout in the air, thing that some boat builders produce

This is what we are looking at. Different.

[steven wilkinson]

I do like 'out of the box' design thinking! I have a cunning plan that will be a totally different boat - but I do need to win the lottery first!

[Barry]

This is what we are looking at. Different.

 

That, Sir, has style

[fudd]

 

That, Sir, has style

I'd be really proud if I built it. The credit must go to Tyler Wilson I'm afraid.

 

Nice 10" wide gunwhales.

 

Edited January 18, 2014 by fudd

[Barry]

My goodness!!

 

That is very pleasing to my eye!

[peterboat]

I watched it being built it is now supposed to be at Mercia marina I didnt like the bow at all it was straight up and down designed for maximum space. Their was no uplift on the baseplate at the bow dont know what it would have sailed like in rough water on the Trent. The rest of the boat was Johnies Brigatine. Both he and a lady called Lesley designed it very pretty

 

Peter

This is what we are looking at. Different.

Love that ducati and Esse stove shocking Italian electrics!!

 

Peter

[Adam Denney]

Have a look at these http://www.bristolhydrogenboats.co.uk/ http://www.birmingham.ac.uk/research/activity/metallurgy-materials/hydrogen/protium-boat.aspx

 

thanks for the links!

 

>

But what to strive towards these days, low energy consumption, low impact on the canal in terms of wash.

A good hull will reduce the living area. so make it longer? a 3-6 L/B ratio.

Hard chine hull, multi chine?<

 

As a canal boat captain I will add to my own thoughts.

 

Making the boat with shallow V bottom is good, as is multi chine, when going into and out of locks, and in narrow canals, this to leave room for the water to pass, downside with this is when there is a shallow canal, the V bottom increase draft at the same weight. if the draft is no problem, it also help when driving, but is less "help full" when dry docking.

 

Having a long transit from the hull side to the propeller help in economical driving, but less room and boyancy.

the angle should not be more then 15 deg on each side on faster ships, 30 deg on slower, and absolutly not more then 35 deg, My picture of this is a 15 deg ending at the prop, starting at a point of 30 deg on the hull side, maximum angle in the middle 35 deg, in a S curve.

 

The stern or transom should end in the water line or just a few inch down this to reduce drag.

 

An Schilling rudder, with twisted leading edge, to reduce drag/noise and improve turning.

 

A transom give more outdore space, but is also a negative thing when turning, especially out of locks and narrow canals/ponds.

 

Not to mention reversing into a lock, I wish my boat didn't have a transom with sharp corners. a round or elliptical shape looks better.

Will keep these points in mind, my main focus at the moment is sorting out the overall layout packaging, to create an alternative interior, without compromising the boat side of things.. the start of a project is the best opportunity to introduce some really different ideas which can then be toned down..

This is what we are looking at. Different.

 

I can appreciate the lines on this boat, but can somebody tell me why so many canal boats go for the small round windows? surely you want to get more light inside to make it feel bigger and a nicer place to live..

 

 

Whatever you design. Make sure it can get under the small green walkway bridge near Canal street on the Rochdale 9. ;-)

If you could create a "pop out" design....so the boat has a narrowboat hull baseplate...and the walls could move inwards to allow the boat through narrow locks....but expand to full widebeam size when moored up, you'd have an instand winner. At the moment widebeams cant go where narrowboats can go.

Really like your idea Dean....something like you see in large Winnebago's / caravan's - would be fab to have a boat designed thin enough to use all the canal system, but be able to convert to the comfortable width a widebeam provides with a few simple adjustments.

I do like the idea of having a small "patio" area on the roof as well (obviously only to be used when moored), but would like it to have a collapsible railing around it for safety

 

This idea, is growing on me.. expanding sides, or folding sides which could fold down and create a water level deck, but may be too complicated for the hull?

 

or sides which fold up, wouldn't create a deck unless you access it from the roof.. would have to be pretty strong.

 

Hydraulics would be the way to go with these ideas?

 

Will be sketching this week so should have some drawings to discuss soon..

[Tam & Di]

This idea, is growing on me.. expanding sides, or folding sides which could fold down and create a water level deck, but may be too complicated for the hull?

 

or sides which fold up, wouldn't create a deck unless you access it from the roof.. would have to be pretty strong.

 

Hydraulics would be the way to go with these ideas?

 

Will be sketching this week so should have some drawings to discuss soon..

 

Dean's ideas were obviously tongue in cheek, but if money was no object you could achieve something similar. Working barges and tugs on the continent often have a hydraulically operated wheelhouse - low enough normally to clear the bridges, but then lifted to see over the cargo. I'm not sure what this would achieve though for a residential craft - just lifting it higher when it is moored leaves an unused space below. I remember seeing a design for one that did indeed widen hydraulically, but again I can't see the application for a converted craft. In the extended state it is higher or wider, which is fine for improved vision or carrying more bulk freight, but the void cannot be used for anything else of a permanent nature.

 

You could also have a hull that lengthened telescopically to allow craft to move from the southern waterways to the north, but again could not have anything semi-permanent fitted internally.

 

Tam

 

Tam

[Adam Denney]

 

Dean's ideas were obviously tongue in cheek, but if money was no object you could achieve something similar. Working barges and tugs on the continent often have a hydraulically operated wheelhouse - low enough normally to clear the bridges, but then lifted to see over the cargo. I'm not sure what this would achieve though for a residential craft - just lifting it higher when it is moored leaves an unused space below. I remember seeing a design for one that did indeed widen hydraulically, but again I can't see the application for a converted craft. In the extended state it is higher or wider, which is fine for improved vision or carrying more bulk freight, but the void cannot be used for anything else of a permanent nature.

 

You could also have a hull that lengthened telescopically to allow craft to move from the southern waterways to the north, but again could not have anything semi-permanent fitted internally.

 

Tam

 

Tam

 

If it works on a motorhome, then why not on a barge? I see what you mean by your other points.. although a folding up/down side would create a beautiful connection between the interior and outside.. and an easily accessible opening in to the barge...