Walkie Talkies

[ditchcrawler]

May be this blog gives a good reason not to rely on walkie talkies. You have to go down to paragraph 9ish.

 

http://nbsanity.blogspot.co.uk/2013/09/its-september-and-its-autumn.html

[pquinn]

tsk,tsk,tsk.the only thing that that blog could teach anybody is to turn their head now and then like a living person.nbsanity..thats debateable.

[Midnight Rider]

Can you buy just one if you're a singlehander?

Reading through the thread I gather that Mr Norman thinks that all that use them are singlehanders. --- nearest smiley I can find.

 

Me? Had them, didn't use them, dumped them.

[pquinn]

tsk,tsk,tsk.the only thing that that blog could teach anybody is to turn their head now and then like a living person.nbsanity..thats debateable.

actually the only thing that hair raising blog could ever teach is to never write a blog.surely thats john cleese.hilarious

 

''We’d been thinking of watering at this point but a) there was another boat already doing so and there was a space just about 70 foot long on the visitor moorings opposite. I say 70, but in fact it was more like 69’ 6”.''

 

i am gonna have to follow this guy he is f^%&*ing priceless.

[DHutch]

To be fair, while I have skimmed the thread, im a fan of the 'it will take you a hell of a long time to pay back the cost save in using your mobile' and of using basic hand signals for the rest. But largely upto whoever wants to use what.

[alan_fincher]

i am gonna have to follow this guy he is f^%&*ing priceless.

 

He is a forum member, so will I'm sure appreciate your enthusiasm!

[pquinn]

 

He is a forum member, so will I'm sure appreciate your enthusiasm!

yes,i am sure he will.this man is my hero and allways shall be. i want to have his babies. case in point..............

''When I first started cc'ing, I was worried about being assaulted by the hoards of sex starved young women known to frequent many popular mooring spots, but it hasn't happened.

 

Still, it's only been eight years, there's hope yet…

[Orca]

For anyone without even a modicum of radio interests or knowledge, then for me cheapo ones from Aldi or wherever. Other than that, Baofeng UV5R's hands down for those with a bit of an interest over and above that. I sat listening in the truck to some of the activity on 156.800 (VHF 16) in the Hull area last night whilst waiting to load sausages.. . . Best £30 quid I ever spent, though the sausages still elude me. . .

Edited October 20, 2013 by Orca

[Burgiesburnin]

If needed at all. I think that the only time I would have found then useful would have been on the section that you mention. The one way system on the Llangollen.

 

As a point and only as a related topic. Did CB radio ever catch on in the UK? Maybe it was illegal or required a special license.

Edited October 20, 2013 by Burgiesburnin

[Top cat]

CB radios had a brief fad inthe 80's didn't bother myself but they played havoc with my R/C aircraft for a while till we changed frequencies.

 

TC

[alan_fincher]

For anyone without even a modicum of radio interests or knowledge, then for me cheapo ones from Aldi or wherever. Other than that, Baofeng UV5R's hands down for those with a bit of an interest over and above that. I sat listening in the truck to some of the activity on 156.800 (VHF 16) in the Hull area last night whilst waiting to load sausages.. . . Best £30 quid I ever spent, though the sausages still elude me. . .

 

Repeated from another thread....

 

 

 

Yes, but in the UK it would be quite illegal to use one of these on the PMR446 frequencies.

 

There is no ambiguity about that at all - if you want to transmit on the PMR446 frequencies you must have dedicated equipment that can only transmit on those frequencies.....

 

From Ofcom PMR 446 Information sheet

 

5. RADIO EQUIPMENT

PMR 446 radio equipment must be handportable, have an integral antenna, have a maximum ERP of 500 mW and be compliant with ETS 300 296.

 

PMR 446 radio equipment must use the above frequencies only. Radio equipment which can operate on any other frequency, including Short Range Business Radio (SRBR) equipment capable of using frequencies in the 461 MHz band, must not be used for the PMR 446 service.

 

 

[Orca]

The difference between 0.5watt and 5 watt is negligible in real terms for UHF use. The PMR 446 frequencies are generally considered as a kind of 'UHF CB' these days and certainly the digital PMR frequencies (that never took on) are used on analogue by a few. I've spoken to some 'HAMS' on the standard analogue PMR frequencies that are using it well over 10 watts. . .

 

For me and the experience I've had with the little Baofeng, the length and breadth of the country in the truck, it really is a case of 'Res Ipsa Loquitor'. . .

 

Similar 'Export' CB radios with AM/LSB/USB capability with variable power switches up to around 50 watts.

Edited October 20, 2013 by Orca

[geoffwales]

The difference between 0.5watt and 5 watt is negligible in real terms for UHF use. The PMR 446 frequencies are generally considered as a kind of 'UHF CB' these days and certainly the digital PMR frequencies (that never took on) are used on analogue by a few. I've spoken to some 'HAMS' on the standard analogue PMR frequencies that are using it well over 10 watts. . .For me and the experience I've had with the little Baofeng, the length and breadth of the country in the truck, it really is a case of 'Res Ipsa Loquitor'. . .Similar 'Export' CB radios with AM/LSB/USB capability with variable power switches up to around 50 watts.

Sorry to sound ignorant but what does that mean, "the thing it speaks for itself"

[alan_fincher]

Sorry to sound ignorant but what does that mean, "the thing it speaks for itself"

Not sure, but the post reads to me like "as long as others are breaking the rules/regulations in a more major way, there's no problem with me breaking them in a more minor way".

 

Or perhaps I'm misunderstanding.

 

The bottom line is that certain radio frequencies and licencing require that the equipment you are using is "type approved" and specific to those frequencies. Using other things, that cover a multitude of frequencies, can put out more power, or use big external antennas is of course completely technically possible, and the gear to do it freely available. The fact it is technically possibly though doesn't make it legal, so you need to make up your own mind if legal is important to you or not.

 

But to comply you should have a different rig for PMR446 from that you use for Marine VHF - the rules are unambiguous, whatever Latin legal phrases you throw into the conversation!

[Jerra]

As one who knows absolutely nothing about the subject could somebody explain why the law would forbid equipment that covered multi frequencies.

 

I can understand the need for type approval but it would seem wasteful of resources to force people to have more than one piece of equipment.

[Ange]

It looks to me that many have one crew member on the towpath and one stays on the boat , the one on the towpath gets off to the next lock to set it leaving the boat to rise or fall in the present lock ?

so what happens if some kind of emergency happens , boat wedged in some way for instance , who is there to shut the paddles sharpish.

Well in our case Dave is used to moving our boat single handed. He won't be on the boat, he'll be by the paddles with his windlass in his hand - in fact even when we're working a lock together he will only stay on the boat if there's another crew helping so his help isn't needed. It's perfectly safe for me to leave him to it and set the locks ahead for him.

[geoffwales]

Not sure, but the post reads to me like "as long as others are breaking the rules/regulations in a more major way, there's no problem with me breaking them in a more minor way".

Or perhaps I'm misunderstanding.

The bottom line is that certain radio frequencies and licencing require that the equipment you are using is "type approved" and specific to those frequencies. Using other things, that cover a multitude of frequencies, can put out more power, or use big external antennas is of course completely technically possible, and the gear to do it freely available. The fact it is technically possibly though doesn't make it legal, so you need to make up your own mind if legal is important to you or not.

But to comply you should have a different rig for PMR446 from that you use for Marine VHF - the rules are unambiguous, whatever Latin legal phrases you throw into the conversation!

Appreciated,

[alan_fincher]

As one who knows absolutely nothing about the subject could somebody explain why the law would forbid equipment that covered multi frequencies.

 

I can understand the need for type approval but it would seem wasteful of resources to force people to have more than one piece of equipment.

Without being rude, if you know "absolutely nothing about the subject", and full explanation I tried to give would probably be over complex.

 

However if you do have an allocation of frequencies like the PMR446 that can be used for personal communications without a need to buy a licence, then there are (as an example) strict specifications about how limited the equipment must be, so that it is not an annoyance to others using either those frequencies, or others likely to be affected by it. Specifically the PMR446 spec limits the output power of type approved radios to an "ERP" (Effective Radiated Power) of just 500 mW (half a Watt).

 

The Beofeng Transceiver detailed appears to have a power output switchable between either 1 watt or 5 watts, (although different sites selling it quote different numbers). So even if the operator uses it at low power on PMR446 frequencies they are exceeding what the spec allows, and it would presumably be easy for someone to use it on the full quoted 4 or 5 watts. This will mean it transmits further than a "street legal" PMR446 set - great for that particular user, but in danger of messing up use by people sticking to the rules.

 

I have not studied the spec enough to see what else might misalign, but there are a whole host of factors around radio and antenna performance that make it unlikely that a "generic" set that can transmit on a whole number of bands will be completely correct for specialist bands like PMR446.

[Jerra]

Without being rude, if you know "absolutely nothing about the subject", and full explanation I tried to give would probably be over complex.

 

However if you do have an allocation of frequencies like the PMR446 that can be used for personal communications without a need to buy a licence, then there are (as an example) strict specifications about how limited the equipment must be, so that it is not an annoyance to others using either those frequencies, or others likely to be affected by it. Specifically the PMR446 spec limits the output power of type approved radios to an "ERP" (Effective Radiated Power) of just 500 mW (half a Watt).

 

The Beofeng Transceiver detailed appears to have a power output switchable between either 1 watt or 5 watts, (although different sites selling it quote different numbers). So even if the operator uses it at low power on PMR446 frequencies they are exceeding what the spec allows, and it would presumably be easy for someone to use it on the full quoted 4 or 5 watts. This will mean it transmits further than a "street legal" PMR446 set - great for that particular user, but in danger of messing up use by people sticking to the rules.

 

I have not studied the spec enough to see what else might misalign, but there are a whole host of factors around radio and antenna performance that make it unlikely that a "generic" set that can transmit on a whole number of bands will be completely correct for specialist bands like PMR446.

Maybe I am getting the wrong end of the stick. I thought it meant that you couldn't have a set which was say (and I realise my example will probably be a technical impossibility but I hope it give you the idea of what I mean) say CB and VHF for marine work.

 

I understand what you are saying above.

[alan_fincher]

Maybe I am getting the wrong end of the stick. I thought it meant that you couldn't have a set which was say (and I realise my example will probably be a technical impossibility but I hope it give you the idea of what I mean) say CB and VHF for marine work.

 

I understand what you are saying above.

 

On the face of it, though I have not bothered to look exhaustively the Beofeng set mentioned is able to transmit on at least....

 

2 metres amateur band (needs qualification and licence)

70 cms amateur band (needs qualification and licence)

VHF Marine band (needs qualification and licence)

PMR446 (no qualification required, but only very limited power allowed)

 

and a large number of frequencies other than these, (which I have not checked up on what they are allocated to).

 

The fact it has the capability to transmit in a band doesn't make it legal to use it in that way in the UK, and i the case of PMR446, for instance it is not approved.

 

I'd need to refresh my memory on Marine VHF, but have a feeling there as well that sets have to comply to a particular certification, and rather suspect it might fail that test too, (but maybe not, I don't know).

 

The reason it will not work on CB frequencies is they are not in the VHF/UHF part of the spectrum, which is what this Beofeng rig is built for. You will not often find 27Mz capability in a radio that also has capabilities in the range this one does (136 to 174 MHz and 400 to 480 MHz). It requires different electronics, and different antennae, etc.

[Jerra]

The fact it has the capability to transmit in a band doesn't make it legal to use it in that way in the UK, and i the case of PMR446, for instance it is not approved.

 

That is the bit I am having trouble with. It seems illogical and a waste of resources to require somebody to have 2 set when one would cover them.

 

If I read the regulations in a link (either in this thread or the one about VHF hand helds) they specifically ruled out sets which could operate on any other frequency.

 

I was wondering what the logic for that was.

[alan_fincher]

 

That is the bit I am having trouble with. It seems illogical and a waste of resources to require somebody to have 2 set when one would cover them.

 

If I read the regulations in a link (either in this thread or the one about VHF hand helds) they specifically ruled out sets which could operate on any other frequency.

 

I was wondering what the logic for that was.

 

I hoped I'd managed to explain it, but perhaps not!

 

I've just looked up some stuff on the Ofcom site that covers marine VHF.

 

Apart from anything else, as I suspected it says.....

 

In order to comply with the licence terms any channel(s) not covered by the licence should be rendered incapable of transmission.

 

 

 

so I would argue that any rig that can be made to operate on non marine VHF frequencies by any combination of button pushing does not meet the requirement there either.

[Jerra]

 

I hoped I'd managed to explain it, but perhaps not!

 

I've just looked up some stuff on the Ofcom site that covers marine VHF.

 

Apart from anything else, as I suspected it says.....

 

 

 

so I would argue that any rig that can be made to operate on non marine VHF frequencies by any combination of button pushing does not meet the requirement there either.

Thanks so much for your patience Alan. Going back a post or 2I can get my head round why you shouldn't be able to switch from low power to high with PMR446 but I can't under stand why somebody with a marine VHF license shouldn't have a bit of kit which allows them to switch between that and the "street legal" PMR446. However it appears for some reason they can't. Or have I again got the wrong end of the stick (again).

[Orca]

 

On the face of it, though I have not bothered to look exhaustively the Beofeng set mentioned is able to transmit on at least....

 

2 metres amateur band (needs qualification and licence)

70 cms amateur band (needs qualification and licence)

VHF Marine band (needs qualification and licence)

PMR446 (no qualification required, but only very limited power allowed)

 

and a large number of frequencies other than these, (which I have not checked up on what they are allocated to).

 

Absolutely correct on all counts; though with 446 unless there is SERIOUS abuse then Ofcom will not be out to prosecute everbody doing 31mph in a 30 metaphorically speaking. Yes, I know it is still in breach of the law, but believe me, some people are transmitting into treble figures wattage wise on 446. Nowadays they call it 446 DX'ing. Ch8 is the call up Channel I recall!?!

 

 

The fact it has the capability to transmit in a band doesn't make it legal to use it in that way in the UK, and i the case of PMR446, for instance it is not approved.

 

Agreed, though at best the power on the 5R can be turned down to just 1 watt minimum. I never disputed this.

 

I'd need to refresh my memory on Marine VHF, but have a feeling there as well that sets have to comply to a particular certification, and rather suspect it might fail that test too, (but maybe not, I don't know).

 

Since we last locked horns on this subject in the other thread, it occured to me that the Baofeng will never be legal for Marine use as it is not GPS linked and therefore can never meet the IMO's GMDSS requirements. That was a huge error on my part; though as a marine scanner it is infallible for the money.

 

The reason it will not work on CB frequencies is they are not in the VHF/UHF part of the spectrum, which is what this Beofeng rig is built for. You will not often find 27Mz capability in a radio that also has capabilities in the range this one does (136 to 174 MHz and 400 to 480 MHz). It requires different electronics, and different antennae, etc.

 

Only really expensive 'Ham' sets from either Icom or Yaesu for example, though there are others. For the record, the UHF range on the UV5 has been increased to 520mhz now. Honestly, if you have a radio interest, it's worth getting it and just using it as a scanner/tool for learning etc.

Edited October 21, 2013 by Orca

[alan_fincher]

Since we last locked horns on this subject in the other thread.................

I'm not trying to "lock horns", though!

 

It is clear you understand the rules about what equipment can legally be used on what frequencies, and will be aware of any time you or others choose to disregard those rules, (if at all).

 

However a lot of people reading these threads, who may want to use PMR446, Marine VHF, or even CB, will not be aware of the rules, and could be tempted into buying cheap kit that will easily transmit on frequencies, but where you are not actually legally allowed to use that kit in the UK.

 

All I'm trying to do is to educate those who don't understand this. Those who are clued up on it can make their own decision about what they do and don't do.

 

Seem to recall that even proper Marine VHF rigs can be at least a theoretical problem, as those bought cheaply as "grey imports" may not actually carry the required certifications that they should have for Short Range VHF use in the UK. OK, only a technicality, probably, but easy to buy something at lowest price and think you are street water legal, when actually you are not.