Opinions on Venetian brokers, Nantwich

[FloTiller]

I am planning to view several NBs currently for sale with Venetian brokers in Nantwich. From a previous thread on this forum I have read about dubious sales practices at Whilton who are owned by the same people as Venetian. Does anyone have any experience of these brokers ?

Thanks, Flo

[Richard10002]

Broker dubious practices only affect you if you allow them to. If anything they do makes you wary, suspicious, uncomfortable, etc., don't go along with it and perhaps ask about it here. I think the most dubious practice is that they may ask for a deposit before allowing any kind of test, or before putting an offer to the owner. I have read that there are sometimes nefarious reasons why some tests can't be carried out, like starting the engine. Whilton and Venetian also sell boats that they own themselves - they advertise that they buy for cash - other brokers probably do the same.

 

I wouldn't be handing over a deposit unless I actually wanted to buy the boat, and an offer had been accepted. If they won't/can't be bothered to start the engine, that speaks for itself. There are plenty of boats to buy, even if one you like is with the wrong broker - whoever that may be.

 

There are other brokers in the area, so it needn't be a wasted trip - aqueduct marina, Swanley marina, Tattenhall marina, there must be some kind of sales op. in Nantwich itself.

[Jamm]

Hi Flo Tiller. I have viewed 4 boats at Venetian. From my experience, I was given keys to the boats I wanted to view and also a map of the brokerage area of the marina, showing where my chosen boats were moored. You are basically left to it. I was amazed at the poor internal appearance of 3 out of the 4 boats. One looked like it had been burgled! I found the stern doors left open, deck boards lifted up and general boating equipment left in the rear cabin, to create an obstacle course for me to view the rest of the boat. The other two were just very grubby and smelly Not a good impression for me. However, I would not let this put me off if there happened to be a good boat there, which of course, there may well be.

 

If you know about boats and do not need to ask questions while looking around, this method of viewing is fine but for the inexperienced it can seem a fruitless task. If I were to go back again, I would probably insist the broker comes with me.

 

I have also heard that in negotiations, they can pretend there is a seller to ask if they will accept offers, but, as mentioned above by Richard, Venetian actually buy the boats in.

[Paul C]

We bought our boat from Venetian marina but that was a year ago when they only had 3 boats, and it was just starting out in its new incarnation after Whilton Marina had purchased the marina from the previous owner. We had a good look at the boats a few days ago (were in the area) and its true to say that a lot of them are bought/owned by the marina, and are "tired" looking - ie they are projects, rather than immediately usable boats. Bearing this in mind, they seem overpriced but its possible there's room for a lot of haggling. Some of the boats have been there for a long time now. Regarding the looking around with no salesperson present - I'm sure if you ask for someone to accompany you, they would. Can't believe that they'd not let you start the engine without a deposit - maybe there was a genuine reason on a particular boat?

 

Of course, its buyer beware when you're buying a boat but any sensible buyer would get a survey, right? And I dare say, if you bought one owned by the marina (rather than a broker ie the previous owner isn't the marina) then its like buying a car from dealer vs private, they'd be under obligations of the sale of goods act (would have to be safe, fit for purpose etc)

 

If nothing else, they have a large number of boats so at least you get to look around a number of them, in one day/visit.

 

Nantwich marina don't have space for more than about 1-2 boats for sale, worth checking if they have any before you go there. Also (fairly) local is Overwater marina (Rugby boats).

[Jamm]

Nantwich marina don't have space for more than about 1-2 boats for sale, worth checking if they have any before you go there. Also (fairly) local is Overwater marina (Rugby boats).

Hi Paul, Overwater Boat Sales is now being provided by Boatfinder Brokerage Services

[Neil2]

I had a look at Venetian a while ago, didn't come across any reluctance to start engines etc but I think they ask for a deposit before you can "sea trial" the boat.

 

This is where it gets tricky. Like a lot of brokers they the attach strings to the circumstances under which you can get your deposit back which, in my view, is unacceptable practice.

 

As regards other brokers in that general area I can thoroughly recommend Narrowboats ltd at Northwich. Liam and Geoff are genuine down to earth blokes, very helpful, and because they aren't part of a big company they have a more flexible attitude.

[Barry]

Would it be reasonable to ask a surveyor to run the engine if a deposit has been paid subject to survey but the engine hasn't been heard by the buyer?

[Neil2]

I suspect the real reason for the reluctance to start the engine is that a boat on brokerage these days will probably have a flat battery and therefore getting the thing going would involve a bit of effort.

 

But I still wouldn't go near a broker who refused to get the engine going without some sort of financial commitment, it's outrageous.

 

Be very wary of this deposit business. Some of the less reputable brokers certainly use it as a way of locking buyers into the deal at an early stage. Don't pay a deposit unless you are certain it will be refunded unconditionally if you change your mind.

[junior]

Just to give this some balance. I viewed several boats at Venetian brokerage a few months ago. One I really liked and asked them to start the engine. The salesman came out straight away and started it for me, no questions asked.

 

I was talked out of buying the boat by forum members for various reasons. I also wouldn't but from them now as I know more about Whilton, who own them.

 

 

I have just put an offer on a boat at Braunston Brokerage. On the first viewing of the boat they started the engine for me on request (a Petter). When I said I would be back in a couple of days time for a second viewing, without me having to ask they said they would take me out on a test drive which ended up being about an hour long.

Edited August 22, 2013 by junior

[FloTiller]

Thanks to all for your varying views and opinions, I will post an update after my visit there.

[Mrswoodyowd]

Just wondering whilst your in Nantwich why not have a look at 'aqueduct marina' we have just bought our boat from there and found the staff to be very helpful.. Not as many boats as Venetian but whilst your in the area....

[junior]

Just wondering whilst your in Nantwich why not have a look at 'aqueduct marina' we have just bought our boat from there and found the staff to be very helpful.. Not as many boats as Venetian but whilst your in the area....

Wasn't Nb Sloe was it?

[Mrswoodyowd]

No it's called 'the rose of Sharon' junior... Oh god praying I don't get horror stories now haha

[junior]

No it's called 'the rose of Sharon' junior... Oh god praying I don't get horror stories now haha

 

Looks a nice little boat. I went all the way from Brighton up to there to view Sloe and was really dissapointed when i got there, although that was nothing to do with the brokerage or staff, who i found very helpful.

 

If you don't mind me asking, what did your survey say about the current hull thickness of 'Rose of Sharon'? Only reason i ask is i've just bought an old boat with a 'less than 10mm when new' hull thickness.

[Mrswoodyowd]

Thanks junior....she is a springer so understandably readings were 6's and 5's however the surveyor was pretty pleased with the hull condition (phew) just suggested new anodes and blacking would have liked to have had the epoxy coating but it's going to have to wait for a year or so (cost of boat, licence, moorings and getting jobs done has left us a little light for cash lol) however from reading this forum being skint is going to be a way of life with a boat!!

[FloTiller]

I visited venetian last Saturday and found the staff quite helpful, although I did not need to ask them to start any engines on the boats I saw. Over the past 3 days I have visited Acueduct, Overwater,Swanley, Norbury, Sawley, Whilton, Notts Boats, Wincham and CVMarine Sheffield plus a couple of private sales.My only bad experience was at Norbury, but it was late Saturday afternoon and they had probably had enough of NB tourists. I must agree with a previous comment about Geoff and Liam at Narrowboats Ltd Wincham in Northwhich who were more than helpful.

Despite all this I am nowhere nearer to buying a boat than I was before I started.

I am tempted by one but I wonder if anyone can give an opinion on this. It is a 1993 cruiser 45ft which has been reduced from £25K to just under £20K.

Having seen it I know the bathroom needs re tiling and carpets replaced which is fine , but the engine bay was a mess, both oil and water slushing about. I emailed my concerns to the owner who said he had rebuilt the engine 2 years ago ( a BMC 1.8 4 cylinders) but considering my concerns would take another £2K off the price.

Any opinions ? Do you smell a rat ?

Grateful for any help

[Paul C]

Messy bilge area isn't that uncommon but obviously it indicates a degree of lack of enthusiasm for looking after a boat. I'd say on the face of it, £20k is pretty good value for money for a 45 foot 1993 boat. Obviously, you'd need to have a survey done and no doubt that would reveal possibly other issues which could be used as a bargaining point.

 

Most importantly, did you like the feel for the boat when you first stood in it?

[Richard10002]

At £18k, I smell a good deal. Sounds like he wants to sell, rather than wanting to con you. In real good condition, the boat would likely be snapped up for around £25k, and you can do a lot to a boat for £7k.

[David Mack]

It is a 1993 cruiser 45ft...

 

... but the engine bay was a mess, both oil and water slushing about.

Many cruiser stern decks are not very good at ensuring all the rainwater goes over the side. So if this boat has been sitting around on brokerage for a while it is likely that that there will be water in the engine bilge. And since oil floats on water, even a small amount of oil will make the bilge water look something of a mess.

 

I doubt it is too much to worry about.

[Neil2]

I visited venetian last Saturday and found the staff quite helpful, although I did not need to ask them to start any engines on the boats I saw. Over the past 3 days I have visited Acueduct, Overwater,Swanley, Norbury, Sawley, Whilton, Notts Boats, Wincham and CVMarine Sheffield plus a couple of private sales.My only bad experience was at Norbury, but it was late Saturday afternoon and they had probably had enough of NB tourists. I must agree with a previous comment about Geoff and Liam at Narrowboats Ltd Wincham in Northwhich who were more than helpful.

Despite all this I am nowhere nearer to buying a boat than I was before I started.

I am tempted by one but I wonder if anyone can give an opinion on this. It is a 1993 cruiser 45ft which has been reduced from £25K to just under £20K.

Having seen it I know the bathroom needs re tiling and carpets replaced which is fine , but the engine bay was a mess, both oil and water slushing about. I emailed my concerns to the owner who said he had rebuilt the engine 2 years ago ( a BMC 1.8 4 cylinders) but considering my concerns would take another £2K off the price.

Any opinions ? Do you smell a rat ?

Grateful for any help

The old BMC 1.8 has a well deserved reputation for leaking oil and, in my opinion, is not as "desirable" as the BMC 1.5 which is a much sweeter unit, generally. But if it has been properly rebuilt there shouldn't be any oil leaking. If the oil in the bilge is "old" oil, you have to ask why on earth didn't the owner clean it up before he reinstalled the engine?

 

Having said that, at around £18,000 the price is right and if it's subject to survey you may be able to get it even cheaper. If the boat has a nice sound hull which it should have if it's been properly looked after, you'll have a bit of headroom to even budget for a replacement power unit.

 

I think I know this boat, and when I saw it I didn't like how she sat in the water but the BMC is a pretty heavy lump and does tend to make most small-ish boats squat down at the back end - that can also mess up the drainage channels which doesn't help with keeping the bilge dry.

 

But if you replaced the engine, eventually, you could easily reduce the stern weight by 200 pounds.

 

This is very typical of what is going on in the lower reaches of the market at the moment. Boats start at anything up to £29,000 and can eventually end up well below £20,000. At least this owner is being realistic. There are many who seem to have a spectacularly optimistic view of what their boat is worth.

[Richard10002]

 

But if you replaced the engine, eventually, you could easily reduce the stern weight by 200 pounds.

 

5 bags of coal in the bow would have the same effect, and a bit cheaper than a new engine.... or 90k of ballast in the bow?

[FloTiller]

Thanks again to all for your views on this, I feel a lot more optimistic about this now. I plan to return to the marina on Wednesday for a " make your mind up " viewing, if anyone is free to have a look with me there's a pie and a pint in it for you.

Cheers

[Brin Morris]

I bought our gallery boat Jenny may from venetian last September. I had no problems with any part of the sale I only paid the deposit when I knew I wanted the boat and yes it was only returnable if the survey through up something that would seriously affect the price. I prefer to have the keys given to me to look around myself then if needed the salesman had no problem coming out with me.I would also prefer to see a boat as it is rather than tarted up as you know then how it has been treated and what work you would have to do to bring it up to your standard. I was struggling to get a surveyor and the dry dock in the timescale I needed due to the Dutton breach and stoppages at Marple needed to complete the deal quickly. They arranged for me to swap with a slot they had booked for another boat and told me who the surveyor was going to do the survey and I managed to get the survey completed. I had agreed a price and was on my way to pay the deposit when they phoned me to say the sellers would knock off another £500 if it helped get the deal moving, the broker knew I was on my way at this time so did not have to let me know this. I can only say as I found and am not connected in any way.

 

The gallery is doing very well we have had over 500 visitors and our artists are getting much more benefits than just the artwork

follow us @artismafloat

Edited September 10, 2013 by Brin Morris

[Offcumden]

 

Despite all this I am nowhere nearer to buying a boat than I was before I started.

I am tempted by one but I wonder if anyone can give an opinion on this. It is a 1993 cruiser 45ft which has been reduced from £25K to just under £20K.

Having seen it I know the bathroom needs re tiling and carpets replaced which is fine , but the engine bay was a mess, both oil and water slushing about. I emailed my concerns to the owner who said he had rebuilt the engine 2 years ago ( a BMC 1.8 4 cylinders) but considering my concerns would take another £2K off the price.

Any opinions ? Do you smell a rat ?

Grateful for any help

 

 

 

 

 

If its the boat I think it is and is owned by a gentleman called Michael, he has a genuine reason for the sale and the fact he has offered a further reduction in the price to you is typical of the man.

I have no detailed knowledge of the boat other than meeting it on our travels round the northwest and as far south as Birmingham, as far as I am aware it has been on the brokerage for less than two months and as with any twenty year old boat is bound to need some refurbishment and I think that that is reflected in the price he has offered you.

You might wish to make another post in order that anybody who might be able to help you with your next visit can can pm you.

HTH

John

Edit for clariification

Edited September 11, 2013 by Offcumden

[Richard10002]

I was struggling to get a surveyor and the dry dock in the timescale I needed due to the Dutton breach and stoppages at Marple needed to complete the deal quickly. They arranged for me to swap with a slot they had booked for another boat and told me who the surveyor was going to do the survey and I managed to get the survey completed. I had agreed a price and was on my way to pay the deposit when they phoned me to say the sellers would knock off another £500 if it helped get the deal moving, the broker knew I was on my way at this time so did not have to let me know this.

Are you saying that Venetian sorted out the dry dock and provided the surveyor, (rather than you appointing one), then they gave you £500 that they didn't need to?

Edited September 10, 2013 by Richard10002