Stern Door: Central (With A Hatch) Or To One Side?

[wiltshirewonderer]

Hi

 

My partner and I have settled on the fact that we are going to get a widebeam built and have narrowed it down to two builders (Thanks to everyone who PM'd advice off the back of my last thread).

 

We are pretty certain on what we want regarding internal layout. It will have the kitchen as you enter from the stern.

 

We have looked at widebeams with central doors (and hatch) entering into the rear and also with a sunken step on the rear deck leading to a door on the right hand side. We like the central option because of the hatch and extra light / air this brings in the summer. However, having the door on the right hand side does seem a little more practical to get in and out in a hurry. On the downside, I see a side door letting a lot more water (and leaves etc) into the bilge. This leaves me looking for a little advice:

 

Am I missing any important factors?

What do people have and if they could choose, would they change it?

 

Hope this isn't another unmentionable one like pump out vs cassette!

 

Thanks

Andy

 

 

[blackrose]

I have central doors on my stern. You say that doors to one side make for quicker use - how does that work - you mean because it's a single door?

 

I use the bow doors for my main entrance because the big heavy sliding hatch is too much hassle for everyday use. The bow doors are more user-friendly, plus if I used the stern doors to exit I wouldn't be able to lock the hatch from the inside. I think it's easier to secure bow doors than stern doors with sliding hatch.

 

To some extent where you put the stern doors will depend on your interior design (or vice-versa), but if you do have them to the side and need a sunken step (presumably because otherwise there's not enough cabin height for the doors, or no sliding hatch), then make sure that the step is well drained. I've seen some poorly designed sunken steps on narrowboats which just leak water into the engine hole.

Edited July 24, 2013 by blackrose

[David Mack]

Why not a side door with hatch to avoid the sunken step?

[Natalie Graham]

 

 

My partner and I have settled on the fact that we are going to get a widebeam built and have narrowed it down

 

Why not just get a narrow beam to start with?

 

Traditional double doors on a narrowboat were handy to stand inside next to the stove when steering in cold weather. Is that likely to be a relevant consideration in the design of your own boat?

[wiltshirewonderer]

I have central doors on my stern. You say that doors to one side make for quicker use - how does that work - you mean because it's a single door?

 

I use the bow doors for my main entrance because the big heavy sliding hatch is too much hassle for everyday use. The bow doors are more user-friendly, plus if I used the stern doors to exit I wouldn't be able to lock the hatch from the inside. I think it's easier to secure bow doors than stern doors with sliding hatch.

 

To some extent where you put the stern doors will depend on your interior design (or vice-versa), but if you do have them to the side and need a sunken step (presumably because otherwise there's not enough cabin height for the doors, or no sliding hatch), then make sure that the step is well drained. I've seen some poorly designed sunken steps on narrowboats which just leak water into the engine hole.

 

Yes, the idea was that it being just a single door would be a bit easier. We are going to have the main bedroom at the bow - we have been in a few boats with the bedroom at the stern and just didn't get on well with it for some reason. Good point on the stern door hatch and locking, I forgot that obvious point.

 

The draining of the step is our main concern. I've heard stories about sinkages but don;t know what truth is in it and whether they were just down to poor maintenance or whether it was bad design?

Why not a side door with hatch to avoid the sunken step?

 

We did look at that one but then it was just the same as having a middle door with a hatch. I guess I'm trying (In my usual poorly worded way) to find out whether the small (Short) door with hatch is better/worse than bigger (Taller) door without a hatch but with a step.

Why not just get a narrow beam to start with?

 

Traditional double doors on a narrowboat were handy to stand inside next to the stove when steering in cold weather. Is that likely to be a relevant consideration in the design of your own boat?

 

We did think about that but believe we should be fairly static during the colder months and the stove is going to be central. I think I will just have to deal with the cold, by the time its thermals weather I'd hope that the canal would have iced over?

[BlueStringPudding]

My boat has central doors with hatch AND it leads into a sunken step on the stern deck. The step is a ruddy awful design IMHO. Even with the drainage channel perfectly clear it's hit a miss whether accumulating rain water will go down that side of the step or not. And the channel clogs with the smallest amount of leaflitter or grass cuttngs or cobwebby leafy stuff.

When I bought the boat it was listing and had spongy floors in the back cabin. This had come from very heavy rain that summer not draining out of the step and eventually getting under the back doors and into the main living area. It can get pretty close to that from time to time even now I live aboard. So I leave a disposable nappy in the back step to soak up excess rainfall. It ain't a sexy look!

 

The central doors I find are great, plenty of room. The roof hatch is a bit heavy for me and I struggle to open it from inside. I tend to unlock the doors from inside and push the sliding hatch back from the outside. However as my front door is my main door so is used much more frequently, it's not much hassle.

[Bullfrog]

We've got a door off to the right hand side with a sliding hatch over.

 

No steps on the stern deck (Cruiser stern) but 2 wooden steps inside the cabin.

 

I don't like the external steps referred to above.

 

We get on well with our arrangement - or perhaps we've just learnt to live with it!

 

David

Edited July 25, 2013 by Bullfrog

[Greedyheron]

I have a lowered step (ex black prince semi trad- same as bsp I think?) with doors and hatch- that step is an absolute pain and leaks water right onto the engine as the drainage channels are tiny , or into the main cabin if I'm unlucky.. If having a boat built I would avoid the lowered step.

Today's jobs are making a new pram cover and tonneau to resolve the issue (pram cover for prolonged rain, tonneau as a quick fit for sudden showers now that the redesigned back deck has stopped the water getting in there).

 

I would definitely suggest which ever combination of door and hatch work for you with no lowered step! The hatch does make getting big things in and out of the boat easier though.

[pquinn]

from reading this thread it seems that the weight /awkwardness and locking of the hatch is a problem for people.i dont think it would be to much of a thread drift if people were to give some well thought out examples of there own.the father in law once suggested a hydraulic system to me but since we only had the boat two days i didnt pay much attention.

back to the main topic.we have center doors with no outside step and i may be wrong but is there not a possibility that when using a plank, double doors to the side could make things awkward?plus doors to the center means you can have lockers on either side.one for gas and one for what ever flammable substance of choice isolated from each other.

[Machpoint005]

When we were looking for a boat (admittedly this was 6 years ago) we found a couple with the external sunken step idea, and both had serious rust/rot problems because of the rainwater trap thus formed. It put us off that design altogether.

 

Personally I like the central hatch although I have bumped my head on the way out more often than I can count. I'm not tall, either.

[wiltshirewonderer]

Thanks everyone, sounds like the side step is as much as a pain for water ingress as I thought it would be which is a shame. I think we will be going with the hatch.

[blackrose]

Thanks everyone, sounds like the side step is as much as a pain for water ingress as I thought it would be which is a shame. I think we will be going with the hatch.

 

I still don't understand why you can't have your single stern door to the side with a sliding hatch but no recessed step in the deck? It might mean you need a longer sliding hatch but why not?

 

Anyway, if you do decide to go for the centre stern doors and central interior steps you can still have a nice design inside. My steps from the stern deck bisect the galley and it was a great space-saving design. It gives me a huge kitchen which doesn't really take up any space. If I have guests I can pull out that drop leaf table into the galley, lift up both sides and still have room to move around.

 

I really don't understand why those U-shaped galleys on widebeams and Dutch barges are so popular? They take up so much space.

 

Edited July 25, 2013 by blackrose

[wiltshirewonderer]

 

I still don't understand why you can't have your single stern door to the side with a sliding hatch but no recessed step in the deck? It might mean you need a longer sliding hatch but why not?

 

I really don't understand why those U-shaped galleys on widebeams and Dutch barges are so popular? They take up so much space.

 

 

 

For me it was about avoiding the hatch, the door not being central was a side effect of the required external step down.

 

I like your kitchen, with that width you could have put in a leg across as well if you wanted?

[blackrose]

 

I like your kitchen, with that width you could have put in a leg across as well if you wanted?

 

Thanks. I don't see the point of the leg extending across the boat. It just cuts across the open-plan feeling of the interior and all you get is some extra cupboards and some more worktop. I probably could have done with the cupboards, but I don't need the extra worktop and I'd rather have open space than either.

Edited July 25, 2013 by blackrose

[loubyscooby]

Andy, as you know I have the central door with a hatch. I very rarely open the hatch to come in and out and usually only had one door open when coming in/out. In good weather I have both doors open and think that the central configuration helps with the through draft. I agree with all thats been said about the step down outside regarding water pooling but also I think it can be a bit of a hazard if socialising on the back deck.

[wiltshirewonderer]

I think it can be a bit of a hazard if socialising on the back deck.

Good point, I hadn't considered that one! Decision made. Now I just wish these builders would get back to me, I'm surprised how much I am having to chase to try and swap some money for a boat. Its like they don't want it.....

[BlueStringPudding]

I have a lowered step (ex black prince semi trad- same as bsp I think?) with doors and hatch- that step is an absolute pain and leaks water right onto the engine as the drainage channels are tiny , or into the main cabin if I'm unlucky.. If having a boat built I would avoid the lowered step.Today's jobs are making a new pram cover and tonneau to resolve the issue (pram cover for prolonged rain, tonneau as a quick fit for sudden showers now that the redesigned back deck has stopped the water getting in there).I would definitely suggest which ever combination of door and hatch work for you with no lowered step! The hatch does make getting big things in and out of the boat easier though.

Yes, both Black Princes with a crappy step mines a cruiser stern though but the leaking rainwater effect is much the same

[loubyscooby]

Andy are you trying the guy we talked about ? They do shut down for 2 weeks but unsure of the dates but I have his mobile if you need it.

[wiltshirewonderer]

Andy are you trying the guy we talked about ? They do shut down for 2 weeks but unsure of the dates but I have his mobile if you need it.

 

Yes. Reception are picking up the phone but I'm not getting any further than promises for a call back that never happen. Would appreciate the number for a last ditch effort, thank you. If they still don't want my money after that I will go elsewhere....

[blackrose]

If they're not picking up the phone before they've got your money, I can only imagine what they'll be like once they have it!

[wiltshirewonderer]

If they're not picking up the phone before they've got your money, I can only imagine what they'll be like once they have it!

 

I know and it does concern me despite the recommendations I have for them. Despite that, they are still ahead of one of the other (Well known, high volume) ones who can't even organise an opportunity for me to see an example of what they produce.

[wiltshirewonderer]

Busy day. Everyone seems to have woken up and decided that they want to sell me a boat

[bowten]

You could have a look at my layout and I might sell yer one if yer like it.Just click on my link The Building of Tenacious below.

Edited July 31, 2013 by bowten