Electrical help please

[Monsoon merchant]

Hi, I’m looking for some advice from electrical experts and/or people who use Dometic Travel Power with a Victron Multiplus inverter/charger.

 

The boat was new in June 2012 and has been used as a liveaboard since October. The set up is as follows:

 

Beta 43 with 170amp alternator, 3.5KW Travel Power and Victron Multiplus 12/3000/120, Victron BMV600 battery monitor. Battery bank is 550ah (110 x 5 leisure batteries). No shore power available.

 

Battery usage is around 60ah per day (12v TV, 12v radio, Shoreline fridge/freezer, LED lights, pumps, occasional inverter use for small items).

 

I have been having some concerns that there may be some problems with the electrical installation, and wondered if people could help with a few questions.

 

1) If I switch the Multiplus to ‘charger only’ mode with the Travel Power running, the inverter switches on, which seems to be at odds with the instruction manual. Any ideas?

 

2) The batteries are charged daily with the engine running at 1200rpm and with the Travel Power running the battery charger. The charger stays on ‘bulk’ for only a couple of minutes and then switches to ‘absorption’ mode. This generally only lasts around 30 minutes and then switches to ‘float’, which I understood to be fully charged. It’s obviously great if the batteries are charging that quickly but I worry that they might not actually be charging fully. If I switch the charger off then on again a few minutes later, the absorption phase still takes as long – eg another 30 minutes. Any thoughts? Is there any point running the engine any longer once float is reached, as no active charging seems to be happening?

 

3) If I charge up late afternoon and check the voltage the following morning, it is often down to around 12.3 volts, after only 40-50ah discharge. This seems to be getting towards 50% discharge, which seems very high? There also seems to be a voltage drop on the monitor of up to 0.2 volts when the fridge kicks in. Heavy duty cabling was specified. Is this excessive drop?

 

4)The Victron manual states that the charger will reduce the charging voltage once the batteries reach float, but this does not seem to happen. Is this because the alternator is charging in the background?

 

5) How do you know that the Travel Power is running for example the washing machine, rather than the inverter doing it, as it seems that the inverter needs to be on to get ac out of the TP? I think the inverter can cleverly tell, but how do you know this is happening?

 

Sorry for such detailed questions, any help very welcome as I am worried I am doing something wrong.

[Grace and Favour]

One website that you should read as a great source of battery information is

"http://www.smartgauge.co.uk/technical1.html"

 

To answer a point regarding your battery charging though - -- - (and I'm NOT an electrical expert!) - is that batteries are only about 80% charged when they go on to 'Float' - - and that you will need to run your charging regime (I suggest without your Travelpower - just using your alternator) for 2 - 3 hours every day to get the batteries to a decent state of charge

[nb Innisfree]

Hi, I’m looking for some advice from electrical experts and/or people who use Dometic Travel Power with a Victron Multiplus inverter/charger.

 

The boat was new in June 2012 and has been used as a liveaboard since October. The set up is as follows:

 

Beta 43 with 170amp alternator, 3.5KW Travel Power and Victron Multiplus 12/3000/120, Victron BMV600 battery monitor. Battery bank is 550ah (110 x 5 leisure batteries). No shore power available.

 

Battery usage is around 60ah per day (12v TV, 12v radio, Shoreline fridge/freezer, LED lights, pumps, occasional inverter use for small items).

 

I have been having some concerns that there may be some problems with the electrical installation, and wondered if people could help with a few questions.

 

1) If I switch the Multiplus to ‘charger only’ mode with the Travel Power running, the inverter switches on, which seems to be at odds with the instruction manual. Any ideas?

 

2) The batteries are charged daily with the engine running at 1200rpm and with the Travel Power running the battery charger. The charger stays on ‘bulk’ for only a couple of minutes and then switches to ‘absorption’ mode. This generally only lasts around 30 minutes and then switches to ‘float’, which I understood to be fully charged. It’s obviously great if the batteries are charging that quickly but I worry that they might not actually be charging fully. If I switch the charger off then on again a few minutes later, the absorption phase still takes as long – eg another 30 minutes. Any thoughts? Is there any point running the engine any longer once float is reached, as no active charging seems to be happening?

 

3) If I charge up late afternoon and check the voltage the following morning, it is often down to around 12.3 volts, after only 40-50ah discharge. This seems to be getting towards 50% discharge, which seems very high? There also seems to be a voltage drop on the monitor of up to 0.2 volts when the fridge kicks in. Heavy duty cabling was specified. Is this excessive drop?

 

4)The Victron manual states that the charger will reduce the charging voltage once the batteries reach float, but this does not seem to happen. Is this because the alternator is charging in the background?

 

5) How do you know that the Travel Power is running for example the washing machine, rather than the inverter doing it, as it seems that the inverter needs to be on to get ac out of the TP? I think the inverter can cleverly tell, but how do you know this is happening?

 

Sorry for such detailed questions, any help very welcome as I am worried I am doing something wrong.

 

First off considering your usage 50-60ah sounds very low, more like double that IMO.

 

Absorption chage time is adjustable up to a max of 8 hrs.

 

Fully charging a battery takes a minimum of 8 hrs, more like 24 hrs, it looks like you are only partly charging your batts and they may be sulfated in any case which reduces their capacity.

 

The w/m will run from the TP and assisted from batts by Victron, the point when this happens depends on Victron shorepower limit setting.

 

When Victron detects incoming AC it switches it through via a relay, no incoming AC= no power switched through.

Edited February 19, 2013 by nb Innisfree

[jelunga]

You also need to check the dip switch settings on the Victron. When switched to charger only, it should switch through any mains on the input and charge the batteries. Do you have the remote control panel abd if so what have you set the input current at? Have you inhibited the power assist mode ? It is quite a sophisticated unit with many adjustments possible.

[nb Innisfree]

One website that you should read as a great source of battery information is

"http://www.smartgauge.co.uk/technical1.html"

 

To answer a point regarding your battery charging though - -- - (and I'm NOT an electrical expert!) - is that batteries are only about 80% charged when they go on to 'Float' - - and that you will need to run your charging regime (I suggest without your Travelpower - just using your alternator) for 2 - 3 hours every day to get the batteries to a decent state of charge

 

When batts reach approx 80% SoC they go from bulk charge to absorption charge, how long absorption lasts for depends on Victron setting.

[nb Innisfree]

OP, adaptive charging is best disabled, set absorption to max of 8 hrs (make sure voltage is set to type of battery) then do a daily charge of, say, 2 or 3 hrs (or longer if cruising) and then do a weekly 8+ hr absorption, if batts are sulfated you will need to do more long absorption charges in an attempt to revive them to some extent.

Edited February 19, 2013 by nb Innisfree

[nicknorman]

We have a similar setup but with a Mastervolt Combi rather than a Victron.

 

1) I doubt the inverter is "switching on", what is happening is that the incoming mains from the TravelPower is being passed through the Victron and powering the charger part of it. I am not very familiar with the Victron but suspect there will be a light on it when incoming shore power is present and/or when its in inverter mode. (ETA there is, see below). With the switch set to Charger Only the inverter should not be able to come on. Only if you put the switch to Off will it stop incoming power from the TP making its way to the rest of the AC electrical system.

 

2) There will be an element of competition between the Victron charger and the Beta alternator. Depending on which one is set to the higher voltage, that will do the lion's share of the charging. If the Victron is set a bit below the alternator, the former will come off bulk phase quite quickly since the alternator will be giving more current. It sounds like that is what is happening. Typically there is a minimum time in Absorption - in your case it sounds like it is set to 30mins, but probably adjustable. This is why cycling the charger gives another 30 mins in absorption.

 

You don't say what type of batteries you have, but if they are open wet cell (ie they can be topped up with distilled water) and if they are not using much or any water, I would consider increasing the bulk and absorption voltage settings in the Victron. You set a base value, and that value is then compensated for temperature using the Victron's battery temperature sensor. I have ours set to 14.7 at the moment, which gives nearer 14.9 in winter with cold batteries. This makes the charger work harder than the alternator and it stays on absorption for much longer. The batteries are not using any water because they have a lot of calcium in them, which raises the gassing voltage. Its best for the batteries to charge at as high a voltage as possible without excessive gassing (best when the charging time is limited, I mean).

 

At no point have you mentioned the charging current. You should be able to see this on the BMV600 - the combined total of alternator and Victron - and this is a good guide as to when to stop charging.

 

To fully charge the batteries you need to charge until the current has fallen off to perhaps 1% of the AH capacity (there is no exact number - in reality the batteries are never quite fully charged!), which in your case would be 5A. To be more precise, depening on the age of the batteries the final current may be more or less, but if they are fairly new the final current will be less. Therefore its worth watching the charge current towards the end of the charge, and stopping charge only when the charge current ceases to decrease significantly over say 30 mins.

 

3) 0.2v does seem a fair bit but there are too many variables, such as the type of fridge, where the voltage is being measured (eg before or after isolator) etc. Chances are the batteries are sulphated and their internal resistance might be on the high side, but until you have established their condition its not the most pressing of problems!

 

4) Yes, if the current the Victron is supplying falls off to a low value, and the minimum time is reached (30 mins?) then it will go into float but the voltage from the alternator will remain, maybe 14.6v or so. The Victron can't pull the voltage from the alternator down (fortunately!).

 

5) There are LEDs on the Victron - one is labelled "mains on" - this means that power is coming in from the TP or shore power. Another one is labelled "Inverter On" when the system is in inverter mode. Obviously with the TP running, you should see the "mains on" LED illuminted and the "Inverter On" LED extinguised. Do you have a remote panel for the TP? - if so, you can see how much current its providing and that will assure you that its supplying the washing machine. Anywa, as you say the Victron is aware when AC power is available from the TP and will just pass that through. Only if the TP stops working will it automatically switch to inverter mode.

Edited February 19, 2013 by nicknorman

[Roger Crown]

Hi Monsoon,

I hope the following goes some way to answering your questions:-

 

1) The travel power running at 1200 rpm may drop out if the demand from the charger is high, causing the Victron to go to Inverter mode. Try increasing the engine revs. Presuming you have the new model travel power, with the two fans on the front it should give you an indication of its operation / revs too low etc, on the front panel.

2) The Charger running in conjunction with the secondary alternator can give false readings. Try charging with the TP turned off.

Providing the BVM600 has been synchronised properly it should be capable of giving a better overview of the batteries charge state.

Has the Multiplus had all the parameters set correctly, this really requires the use of the Victron software and computer connection cables. When the charger goes into float, what is the charge value (both volts and amps) read from the BVM?

3) Its very likely your batteries are not getting enough charge time and could be sulphating.

4) Yes the alternator will still be producing charge voltage.

5) This can be dependant on the power share settings in the Victron, switch it to charger only to be sure the TP is solely providing the input to the Washing machine via the pass through facility.

 

Regards

Roger

[nicknorman]

Hi Monsoon,

I hope the following goes some way to answering your questions:-

 

1) The travel power running at 1200 rpm may drop out if the demand from the charger is high, causing the Victron to go to Inverter mode. Try increasing the engine revs. Presuming you have the new model travel power, with the two fans on the front it should give you an indication of its operation / revs too low etc, on the front panel.

2) The Charger running in conjunction with the secondary alternator can give false readings. Try charging with the TP turned off.

Providing the BVM600 has been synchronised properly it should be capable of giving a better overview of the batteries charge state.

Has the Multiplus had all the parameters set correctly, this really requires the use of the Victron software and computer connection cables. When the charger goes into float, what is the charge value (both volts and amps) read from the BVM?

3) Its very likely your batteries are not getting enough charge time and could be sulphating.

4) Yes the alternator will still be producing charge voltage.

5) This can be dependant on the power share settings in the Victron, switch it to charger only to be sure the TP is solely providing the input to the Washing machine via the pass through facility.

 

Regards

Roger

1) We find that the TP can provide 13A at 1200 rpm, and anyway OP is talking about charging the batteries at 1200 rpm, which is more than adequate.

 

2) ?? No, there is no reason for turning the TP off when charging, charging with the Victron gives better control and allows charging voltage to be adjusted. A counter-productive suggestion!

[Eeyore]

Hi, I’m looking for some advice from electrical experts and/or people who use Dometic Travel Power with a Victron Multiplus inverter/charger.

 

The boat was new in June 2012 and has been used as a liveaboard since October. The set up is as follows:

 

Beta 43 with 170amp alternator, 3.5KW Travel Power and Victron Multiplus 12/3000/120, Victron BMV600 battery monitor. Battery bank is 550ah (110 x 5 leisure batteries). No shore power available.

 

Battery usage is around 60ah per day (12v TV, 12v radio, Shoreline fridge/freezer, LED lights, pumps, occasional inverter use for small items).

 

I have been having some concerns that there may be some problems with the electrical installation, and wondered if people could help with a few questions.

 

1) If I switch the Multiplus to ‘charger only’ mode with the Travel Power running, the inverter switches on, which seems to be at odds with the instruction manual. Any ideas?

 

2) The batteries are charged daily with the engine running at 1200rpm and with the Travel Power running the battery charger. The charger stays on ‘bulk’ for only a couple of minutes and then switches to ‘absorption’ mode. This generally only lasts around 30 minutes and then switches to ‘float’, which I understood to be fully charged. It’s obviously great if the batteries are charging that quickly but I worry that they might not actually be charging fully. If I switch the charger off then on again a few minutes later, the absorption phase still takes as long – eg another 30 minutes. Any thoughts? Is there any point running the engine any longer once float is reached, as no active charging seems to be happening?

 

3) If I charge up late afternoon and check the voltage the following morning, it is often down to around 12.3 volts, after only 40-50ah discharge. This seems to be getting towards 50% discharge, which seems very high? There also seems to be a voltage drop on the monitor of up to 0.2 volts when the fridge kicks in. Heavy duty cabling was specified. Is this excessive drop?

 

4)The Victron manual states that the charger will reduce the charging voltage once the batteries reach float, but this does not seem to happen. Is this because the alternator is charging in the background?

5) How do you know that the Travel Power is running for example the washing machine, rather than the inverter doing it, as it seems that the inverter needs to be on to get ac out of the TP? I think the inverter can cleverly tell, but how do you know this is happening?

 

Sorry for such detailed questions, any help very welcome as I am worried I am doing something wrong.

 

Hi Monsoon

No idea on 1 & 5.

The answer to the underlined part of 4 is yes; and its causing 2 & 3.

The Beta 175 amp alternators have been supplied with 14.8 volt regulators (there is a thread elsewhere on the forum).Shortly after starting you have the capacity to charge at 295 amps from the alternator and victrons combineded outputs. This will quite qickly raise the battery voltage above the victrons settings causing it to go into float (but effectively shut down in this instance). The alternator will of course continue to charge the batteries; but only if you allow it sufficient time to do so. Using the victron indicators to time the charging cycle may have led to a gradual reduction in state of charge over a period of time, which would in part explain the readings you are getting.

Changing the victron setting (raising them) may be an option if you have wet lead acid batteries which can be maintained (topped up).

However if you have sealed batteries this is not an option; and the higher voltage from the alternator will probably have reduced thier life already.

Steve (Eeyore)

 

Edited to add - wow! 4 other posts in the time it took me to type this; must go on that typing course sometime.

Edited February 19, 2013 by Eeyore

[Justme]

 

 

1) If I switch the Multiplus to ‘charger only’ mode with the Travel Power running, the inverter switches on, which seems to be at odds with the instruction manual. Any ideas?

 

 

 

If the unit has been set up using the dongle & VEConfigure software it ignores the physical switch & you can use the virtual panel. Mine does it too. You can reset it but you need to read the manual to do that.

 

It might also ignore it if you have the remote panel plugged in.

 

Edit to add.

 

Are you sure its actually in inverter mode & not just passing the power through or assisting it?

Edited February 19, 2013 by Justme

[Roger Crown]

1) We find that the TP can provide 13A at 1200 rpm, and anyway OP is talking about charging the batteries at 1200 rpm, which is more than adequate.

 

2) ?? No, there is no reason for turning the TP off when charging, charging with the Victron gives better control and allows charging voltage to be adjusted. A counter-productive suggestion!

 

Why is it when sensible suggestions are being put forward someone pops up to rubbish them.

 

The most probable reason the Victron switches to inverter mode is the fact it has lost 230v source i.e. the TP is not producing. Quote "may drop out"

The switching off of the TP was a suggestion quote "try"

 

For your information Nick, the charging voltage won't be adjusted at the batteries as long as that alternator is spinning, no matter what the Victron is doing or saying.

[GUMPY]

One other thing to consider is that if you have adaptive charging on rather than a timed charge it wii see the O/P of the alternator and assume that tne batteries do not need that much charge.

Adaptive charging does NOT work you would be best to turn it off.

[nicknorman]

Why is it when sensible suggestions are being put forward someone pops up to rubbish them. Because, whilst I appreciate you are trying to be helpful, the OP is already confused enough and adding confusing and in fact unhelpful comments makes it worse

 

The most probable reason the Victron switches to inverter mode is the fact it has lost 230v source i.e. the TP is not producing. Quote "may drop out"

The switching off of the TP was a suggestion quote "try" . I doubt the Victron is switching to inverter mode. The OP is just finding power on the AC system and "some lights" on the Victron coming on - he considers that box to be the inverter.

 

For your information Nick, the charging voltage won't be adjusted at the batteries as long as that alternator is spinning, no matter what the Victron is doing or saying.

That comment is totally incorrect. So I'm sorry, I know you are tying to be helpful and you think you know what you are talking about, but I wonder if you have a boat with the sort of configuration of me and the OP? If you did, you would know that the system set to the higher voltage "wins" and the system with the lower voltage stops producing much or any current towards the end of the charge.

 

Why am I sounding like a Grumpy on this forum?

Edited February 19, 2013 by nicknorman

[bowten]

Hi Monsoon

No idea on 1 & 5.

The answer to the underlined part of 4 is yes; and its causing 2 & 3.

The Beta 175 amp alternators have been supplied with 14.8 volt regulators (there is a thread elsewhere on the forum).Shortly after starting you have the capacity to charge at 295 amps from the alternator and victrons combineded outputs. This will quite qickly raise the battery voltage above the victrons settings causing it to go into float (but effectively shut down in this instance). The alternator will of course continue to charge the batteries; but only if you allow it sufficient time to do so. Using the victron indicators to time the charging cycle may have led to a gradual reduction in state of charge over a period of time, which would in part explain the readings you are getting.

Changing the victron setting (raising them) may be an option if you have wet lead acid batteries which can be maintained (topped up).

However if you have sealed batteries this is not an option; and the higher voltage from the alternator will probably have reduced thier life already.

Steve (Eeyore)

 

Edited to add - wow! 4 other posts in the time it took me to type this; must go on that typing course sometime.

I think you are onto something here.However the Victron should not be switching to inverter unless the input range as been set too low and not at all if set to charger only.

[Roger Crown]

Why am I sounding like a Grumpy on this forum?

Oh dear, were people were right telling me not to bother trying to help on forums?

 

You see Nick this was my main job, Specifying, installing and commissioning Mastervolt ( my preferred equipment) Victron and Travel power units to all work in the 35 boats we built.

Some far advanced from your fairly simple set up. If the mood takes you please tell the forum how you can adjust the charge characteristics on a Beta Marine standard 175A alternator.

You are wrong in so many ways with your last post I really didn't want to bite.

I assume your arrogance saw my meagre 80 odd posts and sent you into newbie pounding mode.

 

Well "Grumpy" it may stick I'll leave you to have your own bun fight.

 

Roger

[bowten]

God knows what the Op thinks now.ENOUGH,lets get on with trying to help the OP.

[nicknorman]

Oh dear, were people were right telling me not to bother trying to help on forums?

 

You see Nick this was my main job, Specifying, installing and commissioning Mastervolt ( my preferred equipment) Victron and Travel power units to all work in the 35 boats we built.

Some far advanced from your fairly simple set up. If the mood takes you please tell the forum how you can adjust the charge characteristics on a Beta Marine standard 175A alternator. You can't, and I didn't say you could so I don't see your point?

You are wrong in so many ways with your last post I really didn't want to bite.

I assume your arrogance saw my meagre 80 odd posts and sent you into newbie pounding mode.

 

Well "Grumpy" it may stick I'll leave you to have your own bun fight.

 

Roger

 

Roger, I am well aware of who you are. I am also well aware that a "professional" is someone who gets paid for their work, not necessarily someone who is right or even knows what they are doing. A "professional" installed my GI incorrectly so it was ineffective. And repeated the error on another boat (that I am aware of - probably more I am not aware of) despite me pointing out the problem.

A "professional" installed a BVM600 on a friend's boat. The MV Combi was not routed through the shunt, and since both engine and service bat negatives were connected together, only 1/2 the alternator charging current was being registered - ie 2 absolutely fundamental mistakes. I ended up fixing the problems.

 

I wonder what glories Crown boats had that made them so far advanced from my system with Beta 43 with TP, MasterSwitch automatic AC selector, MasterVolt Combi, MasterShunt, Masterview Easy and Empirbus canbus-controlled DC distrubution and control system with keyfob remote control and remote control by phone text?

 

I suppose I find it a bit irritating that you use the user-name you do - it implies you are trying to increase your credibility (unsucessfully!). That is perhaps why I seem grumpy. Your latest post smacks of BS - or flouncing off in a sulk to put it more colourfully!

 

I am definitely starting to sound like Chris Pink - it must be catching!

 

God knows what the Op thinks now.ENOUGH,lets get on with trying to help the OP.

I refer the honourable OP to the post I made some moments ago!

Edited February 19, 2013 by nicknorman

[Monsoon merchant]

Thanks for all the replies. Quite confused now and need to sit down and read them properly when I have time later.

 

Just one thing though, it definitely is the inverter light that is coming on in battery charger mode, even at 1200rpm and very light load. This is what was making me wonder if it is not correctly wired?

 

I am wondering if all this might be a bit beyond me. Can anyone recommend a really good electrician who covers the East Mids who might be able to come out and look at the syatem and help set it up properly?

 

Thanks again

[Chris Pink]

 

Sorry for such detailed questions, any help very welcome as I am worried I am doing something wrong.

 

Most of your stuff is normal, the only thing that isn't is the inverter kicking in. This is, as pointed out, almost certainly a configuration in the Victron and either needs a factory reset or the software plugging in.

 

But the thing that made me post is your comment that it was all installed 8 months ago. Go and ask the original installers. If they have any idea of customer service they will be happy to help.

 

Other comments;

 

The fridge 0.2V is just what the batteries experience as you switch in the load

 

12.3V in the morning is a little low but not astonishingly so.

 

Post 2 is wrong, the charge goes into absorption not float at 80%.

 

I think a lot of your issues just need some 'playing' with and understanding, there is nothing fundamentally wrong.

 

It's difficult to reread your post while typing on the phone but 60Ah (?) sounds a tad low for your usage.

 

Just reread; if estimate up around 100Ah per day on your stated usage making 12.3V about right. Eeyore's post strikes me as the most likely charging scenario. With 2 charging systems one will give way to the other at the rated voltage (80% charged)

 

I would suggest that Victron software would be advisable with your setup. Even if a lot of it is not clear at first it will aid your understanding.

 

 

I am definitely starting to sound like Chris Pink - it must be catching!

 

 

Not even close. You and Mr Crown are so in love with your own voices you are not even trying to problem solve the OP.

 

You said you don't own a Victron but you could look at a pretty picture of he front panel and realise why the OP said 'inverter' when he meant umm.. 'Inverter'

 

There are 2 lights; mains on and inverter. The OP is correct the inverter should NOT turn on when switched to charger only unless it has been overridden in software.

[by'eck]

To the OP.

 

What hasn't been specifically mentioned so far is that with the 170 amp alternator and the TP powering the Victron's charger (assuming it is) you will have 170 + 120 = 290 amps potential charge current available for a 550 Ah battery bank. This will give the symptoms you describe.

 

The bulk phase on the Victron will be very short.

 

It will prematurely go to float mode. The charge volts will remain high though supported by the alternator which I assume doesn't have a multi-stage DAR, so will work at its regulated 14+ volts.

 

Furthermore the batteries will not be able to absorb this very high charge current quickly and you will be reducing their life.

 

Can I suggest you run without the Victron charger. Just use the alternator and extend your charge time. Check the charge current shown by your BMV600 and when that drops to say 10% of battery capacity = 5.5 amps, your batteries will be near fully charged. Don't trust the SOC reading unless its recently been calibrated.

[nicknorman]

Thanks for all the replies. Quite confused now and need to sit down and read them properly when I have time later.

 

Just one thing though, it definitely is the inverter light that is coming on in battery charger mode, even at 1200rpm and very light load. This is what was making me wonder if it is not correctly wired?

 

I am wondering if all this might be a bit beyond me. Can anyone recommend a really good electrician who covers the East Mids who might be able to come out and look at the syatem and help set it up properly?

 

Thanks again

 

OK sorry for doubting your ability to read the front panel lights! I think its unlikely to be a wiring issue, much more likely to be a software configuration issue or possibly a fault with the Victron (unlikely). Has it always done this from new?

 

Here is a quote from the manual: "Recommendation: Turn the UPS feature off if the MultiPlus fails to synchronise, or

continually switches back to inverter operation." and there are a couple of other configuration possibilities.

 

As Chris said, the installer should fix the problem (for free!) - the only trouble is there are plenty of boat electricians / installers who have no more idea about software configuration than you do! But that should be the first port of call at least. UPS mode is controlled by a DIP switch setting so its not necessary to plug in a PC to change that one.

 

 

Not even close.

 

...You said you don't own a Victron but you could look at a pretty picture of he front panel and realise why the OP said 'inverter' when he meant umm.. 'Inverter'

 

 

Phew!

 

And yes, I posted about the lights but, when faced with a bunch of lights, some people go into panic mode and don't read the labels. Not the OP it transpires so I have apologised for that, but it was a point worth clearing up

 

To the OP.

 

What hasn't been specifically mentioned so far is that with the 170 amp alternator and the TP powering the Victron's charger (assuming it is) you will have 170 + 120 = 290 amps potential charge current available for a 550 Ah battery bank. This will give the symptoms you describe.

 

The bulk phase on the Victron will be very short.

 

It will prematurely go to float mode. The charge volts will remain high though supported by the alternator which I assume doesn't have a multi-stage DAR, so will work at its regulated 14+ volts.

 

Furthermore the batteries will not be able to absorb this very high charge current quickly and you will be reducing their life.

 

Can I suggest you run without the Victron charger. Just use the alternator and extend your charge time. Check the charge current shown by your BMV600 and when that drops to say 10% of battery capacity = 5.5 amps, your batteries will be near fully charged. Don't trust the SOC reading unless its recently been calibrated.

However if the bulk phase is very short, does that matter? If the Victron's charge voltage is raised a bit, it will do the Absorption phase

in preference to the alternator and have the benefit of higher charge voltage. The regulation on the Alternator is quite soft and it sits at low 14.somethings until the current falls pretty low. I don't think there is need to worry about 290A - we only have 4 bats but I rarely see over 200A and it rapidly falls to below the 175A alternator capability due to surface charge being taken up.

 

BTW I think you mean 1%, not 10%!

Edited February 20, 2013 by nicknorman

[Chris Pink]

The main reason I suggested the OP go to the original installer is that as the Victron is in UPS mode they must have set it thus.

 

Worth noting it's not dependent on load, all that has to happen is the Victron turning its nose up at the TravelPower output; waveform, frequency or voltage.

Edited February 20, 2013 by Chris Pink

[nb Innisfree]

To the OP.

 

What hasn't been specifically mentioned so far is that with the 170 amp alternator and the TP powering the Victron's charger (assuming it is) you will have 170 + 120 = 290 amps potential charge current available for a 550 Ah battery bank. This will give the symptoms you describe.

 

The bulk phase on the Victron will be very short.

 

It will prematurely go to float mode. The charge volts will remain high though supported by the alternator which I assume doesn't have a multi-stage DAR, so will work at its regulated 14+ volts.

 

Furthermore the batteries will not be able to absorb this very high charge current quickly and you will be reducing their life.

 

Can I suggest you run without the Victron charger. Just use the alternator and extend your charge time. Check the charge current shown by your BMV600 and when that drops to say 10% of battery capacity = 5.5 amps, your batteries will be near fully charged. Don't trust the SOC reading unless its recently been calibrated.

 

Instead of turning charger off (which will disable AC pass through anyway) the charge rate can be turned down via the remote shorepower dial.

[by'eck]

Instead of turning charger off (which will disable AC pass through anyway) the charge rate can be turned down via the remote shorepower dial.

 

Can't you have pass-through without charger? You certainly could on the elderly one my last boat.

 

 

However if the bulk phase is very short, does that matter? If the Victron's charge voltage is raised a bit, it will do the Absorption phase

in preference to the alternator and have the benefit of higher charge voltage. The regulation on the Alternator is quite soft and it sits at low 14.somethings until the current falls pretty low. I don't think there is need to worry about 290A - we only have 4 bats but I rarely see over 200A and it rapidly falls to below the 175A alternator capability due to surface charge being taken up.

 

BTW I think you mean 1%, not 10%!

 

Whoops yes 1%

 

Clearly leaving just the Victron on would give better charge regime control, but you can't just turn off the alternator when engine is running, hence the suggestion.

 

Regarding your statement about surface charge. Surely the reason for the current dropping rapidly is because the surface charge has not had time to be taken deeper into the plates, and ensuing gassing reduces the charge current. Some reduction in battery life may result as well although I accept that its a balance between charge time and battery life.