how safe is gas

[shellfishb5]

i have read several people saying about the dangers of gas on board nbs, and have seen adds for boats for sale gas free. what are the safety concerns using gas on board, what precautions can you take to make it safe.

i have done a search on here and couldnt find out a lot.

 

andrew

[Richard Bustens]

Gas is not safe, though there will be many that will disagree with me.

 

Gas is heaver than air so it sinks to the floor, in a caravan or house that is ok it just goes out through the door or in a caravan through holes or vents in the floor, but in a boat it collects in the shell till it gets some form of spark then goes bang.

 

In saying that it is not the system that is not safe but any leak that is prescent. or any spillage when you change the bottle though that should be in its owne container that is vented at the bottom.

[DHutch]

Gas is potential dangours in confined spaces, espcailly on a boat.

- Propaine gas is obvously highly flamable, and possably explosive.

- Its also heavyer than air. So in a boat, it sinks into the lower part of the cabin, and in the bildge. And then if not properly ventilated, can build upto dangous levals.

 

The key to safety with gas is not have any leaks!

- The gas system should be sound, of a suitable design, to minimise unnesary pipe runs and joins, and reguarly tested for leaks.

- This needs to be done every four years for the BSS examination anyway, for you to get a waterways leicense.

- You can get your own water-tube manometer if you like, which is what the bss people use. And/or, fit a "bubble tester", which are becoming increasingly common.

- Also the gas bottles must be stored and secured in a suitabe gaslocker, conforming to the nessasay rules and regualtions. (ie, draining overboard, sealed from cabin, etc)

 

Also suitanable ventiation is important, to minimise built up in the even that a leak does a occur.

 

Also, its common sence to turn off the gas at the cyclinders when leaving the boat unatended for a long time.

- And many turn of the isolation valves to appliences such as water heaters before going to bed each nite.

 

Gas fridges are also another safty point, which have been covered many times in other threads.

 

 

We have a gas waterheater (paloma) and a gas cooker (domestic stoves unit) - With two 13kg in a gas locker in the bow. We then do isolate the gas when going to bed.

- Although some people are not happy with the risk of this, we beleave, along with seamingly the majorty of boaters, that this is a minimal risk, considering the benifits of having gas as apposed to that of a gas-free boat. (anyone for a primus stove?)

 

Hope this helps. Im sure many otheres will add to it soon.

 

 

 

Daniel

 

Edit: Mine and richards posts crossed. But yeah tho slightly extremist in my veiw, his points are i guess factually correct also! lol.

Edited August 5, 2006 by dhutch

[doomed1]

i have read several people saying about the dangers of gas on board nbs, and have seen adds for boats for sale gas free. what are the safety concerns using gas on board, what precautions can you take to make it safe.

i have done a search on here and couldnt find out a lot.

 

andrew

 

 

i too have safety questions ive been worried about.

what happens if i leave my gas cooker on without lighting it all night?

what are the dangers of using my axe to clean my fingernails?

if i drink my white spirit will i get sick?

will the mother swan lend me one of her cygnets for sunday lunch?

what happens if i put my arm up the pump out hose?

so many worries

[DHutch]

i too have safety questions ive been worried about.

what happens if i leave my gas cooker on without lighting it all night?

what are the dangers of using my axe to clean my fingernails?

if i drink my white spirit will i get sick?

will the mother swan lend me one of her cygnets for sunday lunch?

what happens if i put my arm up the pump out hose?

so many worries

I think someone being a little sarc'y!

 

That said, in relationship to your first comment, and the thread topic. The only time we got any gas in the boat was when the bottle ran out in the middle of boiling the kettle.

- We had left it boil onthe stove, as we so often do, and waited for it to whistle.

- After a while, it hadnt, and we went down to see what was going one. And smelt gas!

- The bottle had run out enough to allow the flame to go out. BUt was still pushing a small amount of gas out into the cabin space, making the gassy smell.

- It wasnt to bad. We restrained from lighting a match, opened up all the side doors, and wafted around a bit, untill it went.

- However, i always think that, had the stove had FFD/FSD's** on it, which is now compusary for new stoves, it wouldnt have happened.

 

 

**FlameFail or FlameSupervesion Device. Ie, a thermocouple, So when the flame goes out, then gas is cut off.

 

 

 

Daniel

[Yoda]

A friend found out that he had a gas leak on his boat when he was blown up. He suffered bad burns that put him in hospital for a while.

 

The escaping gas had seeped into the bilges and ignited when the bilge pump was switched on. This set fire to the whole boat and him and part of the boat being blown up.

 

He was badly injured but survived. He now insists that fire extingushers are fitted to all boats.

[DHutch]

His boat when he was blown up.

- He now insists that fire extingushers are fitted...

 

1) BANG

2) Picks up fire extingusher

3) "Now, where was that from"

 

Serously tho, it goes to show, things can go wrong, like with anything. And when it goes wrong with gas, theres often few half-mesures!

 

Also, all boats need a addiquite number fire extingushers of a suitable size and type in order to compliy with the BSS

- Our boat has 2*2kg and 1*1kg ABC power units to be complient. (ie, have enought A and B firerating-ness)

 

 

Daniel

[dor]

Well I think the dangers of gas are often over-stated. Yes, if you have a significant leak then you could have an explosion, but it is very rare. The same goes for CO poisoning, although I am very aware of the risks of CO. You are more likely to get CO poisoning from a dodgy solid-fuel stove than a gas appliance.

 

The often qoted gas fridge danger is very over-stated - the size of th flame is so small it will produce about as much CO as a lighted candle or two. There is a risk in mot things in life - the thing to do is minimuise the risk. WE can't spend our lives wrapped in cotton wool.

 

There are tens of thousands of boats out there with gas cookers, gas water heaters & gas CH boilers. The disasters are very rare.

[Yoda]

Well I think the dangers of gas are often over-stated. Yes, if you have a significant leak then you could have an explosion, but it is very rare. The same goes for CO poisoning, although I am very aware of the risks of CO. You are more likely to get CO poisoning from a dodgy solid-fuel stove than a gas appliance.

 

The often qoted gas fridge danger is very over-stated - the size of th flame is so small it will produce about as much CO as a lighted candle or two. There is a risk in mot things in life - the thing to do is minimuise the risk. WE can't spend our lives wrapped in cotton wool.

 

There are tens of thousands of boats out there with gas cookers, gas water heaters & gas CH boilers. The disasters are very rare.

 

You state that the dangers of gas are overstated. Then you state that the risks have to be minimised.

Make your mind up.

 

You only need a small amount of gas to have an explosion and a larger amount to cause a fire.

[Bernie]

After having boats for well over 20 years, all with gas appliances and no problems, although one time we did come home to a smell of gas, we turned off all appliances opened the doors and windows to get rid of the smell and we found it was a loose connection to the gas bottles, rectified this and all was well. If there is a gas leak then surely as we did you can smell it. The only time I have heard of an explosion was actually when an idiot decided to change bottles with a cigarette in his mouth.

[Pirate]

Also I think that gas cookers on boats have safety devices built in such as switches that need to be held in to be lit, unlike in the home where you can just switch them on then let the gas escape.

 

Gas is dangerous, Faulty electrics are also dangerous and can cause fires too. On a boat I guess one has to be a little more aware than perhaps they are at home

[fuzzyduck]

On a boat I guess one has to be a little more aware than perhaps they are at home

 

not neccessarily, my mother is currently in the 6th week (1/4 of the time estimated) recovering from injuries sustained during a minor gas explosion in the home.

 

Wouldn't have happened on a boat, with flame failure devices fitted.

[DHutch]

Also I think that gas cookers on boats have safety devices built in such as switches that need to be held in to be lit, unlike in the home where you can just switch them on then let the gas escape.

Not all cookers on boats have FFD's on them. Ours doesnt.

[ChrisPy]

there's an awful lot of ifs and shoulds and so on in the responses.

the regulations are clear, they have to be followed for new boats and regular inspections.

if they are followed the risks are minimised.

 

I tried to design a gas free boat by eliminating the gas cooker, but the high electrical loads, fuse sizes, battery capacities, etc. were frightening and would have represented much more danger than a simple gas system.

 

if you're really concerned you could always site the gas cooker in a self-draining box against the front bulkhead with no pipe runs in the main cabin.

 

still leaves the heating stove and the CO problem though, which is probably less predictable and less controllable

 

let's face it, there are no guarantees in this life, all we can do is to to do our best and use our discretion.

 

 

 

Not all cookers on boats have FFD's on them. Ours doesnt.

 

I know that appliances installed before 2000 do not need FFD to comply with BSS, but commonsense suggests ............

Edited August 6, 2006 by chris polley

[blackrose]

Gas is not safe, though there will be many that will disagree with me.

 

Gas is heaver than air so it sinks to the floor, in a caravan or house that is ok it just goes out through the door or in a caravan through holes or vents in the floor, but in a boat it collects in the shell till it gets some form of spark then goes bang.

 

In saying that it is not the system that is not safe but any leak that is prescent. or any spillage when you change the bottle though that should be in its owne container that is vented at the bottom.

 

Yes Richard, I disagree with you.

 

Anything on a boat can be dangerous if it's not properly installed & controlled. Would you say that 240v electricity is inherently dangerous on a boat? No, of course not, but it certainly can be dangerous if it's improperly installed or used.

 

I havent installed my gas yet but I shall be following the regulations and also adding a bubble tester (or some other leak indicator) and an isolation valve on the main line under the gunnel as it exits the bow gas locker, so I can easily switch it off everytime I leave the boat.

Edited August 6, 2006 by blackrose

[dor]

so I can easily switch it off everytime I leave the boat.

 

 

Does anyone seriously leave their boat without turning off the gas?

[John Orentas]

Does anyone seriously leave their boat without turning off the gas?

 

 

'I do'.

 

But only when out cruising, my gas was 'on' permanently for six weeks during my recent trip, I have a gas fridge and Paloma water heater, I wouldn't want to be re-lighting those every time I came back from the pub, apart from anything else the ignition systems would wear out many times faster.

 

Come to think of it I left my home central heating boiler lit for all that time too.

Edited August 6, 2006 by John Orentas

[Eastern]

Hello Everyone - my first post so here goes......

 

If you are really concerned about gas safety then you can buy propane detectors that can either be permanently installed or portable. They can often detect Carbon Monoxide (CO) as well. The bubble detectors have to be inspected in the gas locker, but the advantage of a permanent detector is that it is constantly monitoring gas levels.

 

But hey, life's a risk

[Carrie]

There's no smell of gas inside my boat, but when I went to have a couple of bottles changed, I could smell gas in the bow locker. I mentioned this to the guy replacing the bottles and he just dismissed it and said there's always a bit of gas gets out. Is he right? Or do I need to do summat about it?

(The nearly perished hose was replaced when I bought the boat last month - on the insistence of the surveyor!)

[Lesd]

Carrie,

My experience of gas systems is limited to caravans rather than boats but my experience suggests you may well smell some escaped gas immediately after physically replacing a bottle (whilst removing the connector a small quantity of gas will escape), but if you can smell gas in the locker at other times Id say you need to look into why.

Les

 

There's no smell of gas inside my boat, but when I went to have a couple of bottles changed, I could smell gas in the bow locker. I mentioned this to the guy replacing the bottles and he just dismissed it and said there's always a bit of gas gets out. Is he right? Or do I need to do summat about it?

(The nearly perished hose was replaced when I bought the boat last month - on the insistence of the surveyor!)

[DHutch]

...my experience suggests you may well smell some escaped gas immediately after physically replacing a bottle (whilst removing the connector a small quantity of gas will escape), but if you can smell gas in the locker at other times Id say you need to look into why.

Yeah, i'd go along with that.

 

The not-return valves are in the end of the flexable pipe furthest away from the bottle, and the bottle valve is obvously on the bottle. So the gas within the pipe itself will escape when the pipe is dissconected.

- So depening on the lengh of hose, you can get a fair smell of gas. Even if its all outside, let alone in a confined space.

- However this if fine, as its all sealed from the cabin, and vented to outside, at the top and bottom.

 

But as les says, if there still a gas smell the next day, or a week later, you have a problem that needs attention!

 

 

 

Daniel

[Roger Gunkel]

I can't honestly see how using gas on a boat can be anywhere near as dangerous as driving a car round with petrol in the tank. Everytime you put petrol in you smell it, but we all observe normal safety precautions and avoid getting blown up, just as we do on our boats. I think you are far more likely to get hammered, fall in the water and drown than getting blown up by gas!

 

Roger

[ChrisPy]

I can't honestly see how using gas on a boat can be anywhere near as dangerous as driving a car round with petrol in the tank. Everytime you put petrol in you smell it, but we all observe normal safety precautions and avoid getting blown up, just as we do on our boats. I think you are far more likely to get hammered, fall in the water and drown than getting blown up by gas!

 

Roger

with respect, it's all about containment within an air space, creating a potentially explosive mixture.

[Roger Gunkel]

with respect, it's all about containment within an air space, creating a potentially explosive mixture.

 

You are quite right Chris, but I was not attempting to be flippant, more pointing out that it is as much about common sense as any potential danger. We have our cars inspected every year and any signs of petrol leaking would be jumped on, but many people seem to be quite complacent over the fact that boat safety inspections are only every 4 years and don't properly check their own systems. Some even seem to be quite proud of the fact that their gas units are old enough to be outside of some of the more recent safety requirements.

 

Roger

[Les Mitchell Hynd]

Bit of a nasty experience today - gas ran out in the middle of cooking Sunday lunch - however it's not that long since I changed the gas bottle - should have lasted for months at the rate we use it - must have been leaking from somewhere - bit of a smell in the gas locker - I guess I didn't tighten the connection fully when I fitted the new bottle - hopefully it has all vented overboard. Abandoned ship and brought the lunch home to finish cooking it. Must buy some sort of leak detector - have found three on Internet sites http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/PROPANE-CONTENTS-GAU...oQQcmdZViewItem

 

or

 

http://www.caravanning-online.co.uk/acatalog/Gaslow.html

 

or

 

http://www.caravanning-online.co.uk/acatal...-detectors.html

 

 

Anyone any suggestions? Ideally, I want something I can fit myself.

 

Les M-H