Winding Hole - Grand Union Between Lock 56 and Bank Mill Bridge Berkhamsted

[alan_fincher]

There is a winding hole just South of Berkhamsted on the GU.

 

It is below Lock 56, but North of Bank Mill Bridge.

 

This has never been a recognised winding point in canal guides, (but then the one at Berkhamsted Station seldom is either!), and I know in the distant past it was a source of dispute, with a chain stretched across it, to prevent use.

 

Is this now an accepted winding hole, please, that can be used without having any arguments with a land wner that thinks you shouldn't be ?

 

Thanks.

[Guest]

There is a winding hole just South of Berkhamsted on the GU.

 

It is below Lock 56, but North of Bank Mill Bridge.

 

This has never been a recognised winding point in canal guides, (but then the one at Berkhamsted Station seldom is either!), and I know in the distant past it was a source of dispute, with a chain stretched across it, to prevent use.

 

Is this now an accepted winding hole, please, that can be used without having any arguments with a land wner that thinks you shouldn't be ?

 

Thanks.

 

Surely any section of canal wide enough to turn a boat is legit. assuming it can be done safely and with minimal disruption to passing vessels.

 

No matter what some land owner may think.

 

Assuming you don't have to board his property aswell of course (though can't think why you would)

[KevMc]

There is a winding hole just South of Berkhamsted on the GU.

 

It is below Lock 56, but North of Bank Mill Bridge.

 

This has never been a recognised winding point in canal guides, (but then the one at Berkhamsted Station seldom is either!), and I know in the distant past it was a source of dispute, with a chain stretched across it, to prevent use.

 

Is this now an accepted winding hole, please, that can be used without having any arguments with a land wner that thinks you shouldn't be ?

 

Thanks.

If its the one in Nicholson's then I used it earlier this summer with no problems .... I know it was south of the Rising Sun Lock (isn't that 55) but not 100% sure that it was south of lock 56

[matty40s]

It was always a winding hole when i was down that way and i used it regularly with no grief when i was doing the tring shuffle.

BW redredged it completely in early 2010 when they were dredging the pounds below and above.

[debbifiggy]

There is a winding hole just South of Berkhamsted on the GU.

 

It is below Lock 56, but North of Bank Mill Bridge.

 

This has never been a recognised winding point in canal guides, (but then the one at Berkhamsted Station seldom is either!), and I know in the distant past it was a source of dispute, with a chain stretched across it, to prevent use.

 

Is this now an accepted winding hole, please, that can be used without having any arguments with a land wner that thinks you shouldn't be ?

 

Thanks.

 

 

It is widely used as a winding hole. We've used it without any problems over the last 13/14 years. Some spot dredging was undertaken a couple of years ago to make it easier to use. It's not an official winding hole but everyone uses it.

 

I've seen a 70 foot working boat get around there when there is enough water in the pound.

D

[n.b.Goldie]

There is a winding hole just South of Berkhamsted on the GU.

 

It is below Lock 56, but North of Bank Mill Bridge.

 

This has never been a recognised winding point in canal guides, (but then the one at Berkhamsted Station seldom is either!), and I know in the distant past it was a source of dispute, with a chain stretched across it, to prevent use.

 

Is this now an accepted winding hole, please, that can be used without having any arguments with a land wner that thinks you shouldn't be ?

 

Thanks.

 

A landowner has no say over where one winds, the proviso being that their land is not touched or trespassed upon. The landowner owns land not the water.

 

Regards

Ditchdabbler

[Kwacker]

A landowner has no say over where one winds, the proviso being that their land is not touched or trespassed upon. The landowner owns land not the water.

 

Regards

Ditchdabbler

 

Does that include marina entrances as I've seen several signs saying "no turning" ?

[Guest]

Does that include marina entrances as I've seen several signs saying "no turning" ?

 

I would guess they are within in their rights as you would have to at least partly enter the marina to turn.

 

Whether it is justifiable or not is a mute point.

[RLWP]

A landowner has no say over where one winds, the proviso being that their land is not touched or trespassed upon. The landowner owns land not the water.

 

Regards

Ditchdabbler

 

 

Does that include marina entrances as I've seen several signs saying "no turning" ?

 

Yes, with the same proviso

 

Richard

[n.b.Goldie]

Does that include marina entrances as I've seen several signs saying "no turning" ?

 

I believe it does provided one does not put one's bow into the marina or touch their land which includes the sides of the marina entrance. Easier to do, I admit, with a 36ft boat such as mine than with a 60 or 70ft.

 

Regards

 

Ditchdabbler

 

[GeoffS]

It's interesting looking at that winding hole and wondering how it has been created as it is quite pronounced compared to other winding holes in the area. I wonder if the canal company actually bought the land like that or has it in some way subsided over time? Would the bed still be owned by the landowner?

[n.b.Goldie]

It's interesting looking at that winding hole and wondering how it has been created as it is quite pronounced compared to other winding holes in the area. I wonder if the canal company actually bought the land like that or has it in some way subsided over time? Would the bed still be owned by the landowner?

 

That is a good question. Some years ago in Simpson Rd Fenny Stratford some householders got fed up with their gardens being eroded by the canal. Their gardens were disappearing. BW agreed to pile their stretch but not at the original width of the canal rather the current width. It went to court and BW lost, the piling restored the canal's original width and the householders got their gardens retsored.

 

They also got EOG mooring rights at £1 per annum until the house changed hands when normal rates then applied!

 

Regards

Ditchdabbler

[Guest]

It's interesting looking at that winding hole and wondering how it has been created as it is quite pronounced compared to other winding holes in the area. I wonder if the canal company actually bought the land like that or has it in some way subsided over time? Would the bed still be owned by the landowner?

 

Is this it??

 

 

Edited November 2, 2012 by The Dog House

[alan_fincher]

That's the one.

 

It was always certainly capable of turning a full length boat, and even a 14 foot wide one, as the horse barge trip boat used to turn there regularly in the 1970s.

 

I know at one stage there was a chain stretched from bank to bank across it.

 

That chain may even have been a legacy of said trip boat - it was often unpopular with those it went past late at night who certainly had to suffer high levels of noise and drunkeness!

 

Now it ain't a lot of use people saying "you always have a right to wind in such places", if someone has made sure you can't.

 

Hence why I'm asking.

 

The answer from Debbi (and others) seems to indicate nobody minds it being used now.

[Guest]

 

Now it ain't a lot of use people saying "you always have a right to wind in such places", if someone has made sure you can't.

 

 

 

[alan_fincher]

If its the one in Nicholson's then I used it earlier this summer with no problems .... I know it was south of the Rising Sun Lock (isn't that 55) but not 100% sure that it was south of lock 56

I have several editions of Nicholsons dating from the 1970s until current day.

 

I don't recall seeing one that actually acknowledged any proper winding hole between Cow Roast and Boxmoor, but that doesn't mean no edition ever has.

 

I'm not sure any of the cruising guides even acknowledge the winding hole at Berkhamsted station, let alone the more obscure one I'm referring to here. Certainly the last time I tried the BW online guides, Berkhamsted didn't appera, even though they have towpath "no mooring" signage, (frequently ignored!), opposite it.

 

Of course there are other winding possibilities between Cow Roast and Boxmoor, even for a full length boat, such as down below the boatyard at Winkwell. However I have been told the live-aboards on boats moored in that widening are well less than keen on boats turning there. (I've never tried, so don't know!).

[Guest]

I have several editions of Nicholsons dating from the 1970s until current day.

 

I don't recall seeing one that actually acknowledged any proper winding hole between Cow Roast and Boxmoor, but that doesn't mean no edition ever has.

 

I'm not sure any of the cruising guides even acknowledge the winding hole at Berkhamsted station, let alone the more obscure one I'm referring to here. Certainly the last time I tried the BW online guides, Berkhamsted didn't appera, even though they have towpath "no mooring" signage, (frequently ignored!), opposite it.

 

Of course there are other winding possibilities between Cow Roast and Boxmoor, even for a full length boat, such as down below the boatyard at Winkwell. However I have been told the live-aboards on boats moored in that widening are well less than keen on boats turning there. (I've never tried, so don't know!).

 

The current boaters guide on waterscape doesn't show it as a winding hole location.

Edited November 2, 2012 by The Dog House

[alan_fincher]

 

I'm not convinced it is legal to force entry to every bit of cordoned off waterway that just happens to be joined to the ain canal is it ? There are quite a few places that could be accessed with one of those, that you couldn't otherwise put your boat, but I'm not sure that legitimises it!

[Guest]

I'm not convinced it is legal to force entry to every bit of cordoned off waterway that just happens to be joined to the ain canal is it ? There are quite a few places that could be accessed with one of those, that you couldn't otherwise put your boat, but I'm not sure that legitimises it!

 

It's an interesting one though because if you have to pass over the boundary of the owners land to use it, which undoubtedly you would are you then trespassing?

 

and

 

has the land owner given up the right to assert it as his land as he seems to now be allowing boaters to use it, I bit like a 'right of way' has been established through frequent unchallenged usage.

 

One for Mr Mayall I think.

[GUMPY]

Story of the hole!

This is from memory if I remember correctly a previous owner of The Pink House wanted to create some kind of boatyard there but was prevented by pp objections from opposite......... and I believe that the hole was dug at that time, hence its not in any books as its not really a winding hole. The owner who put the chain up was a while ago and its changed hands since then.

 

 

Of course there are other winding possibilities between Cow Roast and Boxmoor, even for a full length boat, such as down below the boatyard at Winkwell. However I have been told the live-aboards on boats moored in that widening are well less than keen on boats turning there. (I've never tried, so don't know!).

 

That has finally been acknoledged as a winding hole and its below the wide not in the wide.

 

It mysteriously appeared in the late 80s early 90s

Its very convenient to have two winding holes equidistant from my mooring.

Edited November 2, 2012 by idleness

[KevMc]

I have several editions of Nicholsons dating from the 1970s until current day.

 

I don't recall seeing one that actually acknowledged any proper winding hole between Cow Roast and Boxmoor, but that doesn't mean no edition ever has.

 

I'm not sure any of the cruising guides even acknowledge the winding hole at Berkhamsted station, let alone the more obscure one I'm referring to here. Certainly the last time I tried the BW online guides, Berkhamsted didn't appera, even though they have towpath "no mooring" signage, (frequently ignored!), opposite it.

 

Of course there are other winding possibilities between Cow Roast and Boxmoor, even for a full length boat, such as down below the boatyard at Winkwell. However I have been told the live-aboards on boats moored in that widening are well less than keen on boats turning there. (I've never tried, so don't know!).

 

I'm pretty sure there is winding hole immediately south of the morrings at Winkwell - I used it early last month - and I think it's in Nicholson's too (I'll have to check when I get home tonight- that'll keep me out of the pub for another 15 minutes)

[matty40s]

Yes,there is.

[debbifiggy]

That's the one.

 

It was always certainly capable of turning a full length boat, and even a 14 foot wide one, as the horse barge trip boat used to turn there regularly in the 1970s.

 

I know at one stage there was a chain stretched from bank to bank across it.

 

That chain may even have been a legacy of said trip boat - it was often unpopular with those it went past late at night who certainly had to suffer high levels of noise and drunkeness!

 

Now it ain't a lot of use people saying "you always have a right to wind in such places", if someone has made sure you can't.

 

Hence why I'm asking.

 

The answer from Debbi (and others) seems to indicate nobody minds it being used now.

 

 

Sorry, only just catching up on this. The winding hole I referred to was the Mill Race of the Old Mill between the Esso Garage waterpoint and the Old Mill pub garden.

 

The other winding hole is just outside Berko and only good for up to 60 foot.

 

Debbi

[the grinch]

don't know what it is about the GU that brings out the worst in landowners? but there has always been a lot of no this no that notices! i never take any notice of the no mooring ones and in fact used to tie up opposite the mooring moron sorry warden at the bottom of marsworth just to annoy him, pathetic little hitler eventually gave up as he knew he wouldn't win.

[onionbargee]

Are you saying the landowner is not letting boats wind here ?

 

as it's in a field miles from nowhere whos bothered ?

 

In any case your winding on the water, which belongs to CRT.

 

If challenged by a gap tooth farmer naughty words finishing with "off " would be my answer.