Old Lister diesel engine cuts out continually

[rubblequeen]

Hi, does anyone else have the problem of the engine cutting out when warm and in tick over. It's OK if you can keep the revs high but that's not always possible when manoeuvring.

 

Engineer told me it is common with old Listers and apart from "re-building it" nothing can be done and basically live with it.

 

Thanks

[Ally]

Have the fuel pump and injectors checked first. Last year ours wouldn't start when hot, following cutting out. This year it wouldn't start! We've ended up with a rebuild, after which we initially had problems with it stalling in neutral, but a small adjustment has sorted that out.

[The Bagdad Boatman (waits)]

will it restart first time? if not then fuel filter or air in the system. Can you adjust the tickover slightly with the slow running screw? is the air filter clean? What engine is it?

Edited August 16, 2012 by The Bagdad Boatman (waits)

[BEngo]

Hi, does anyone else have the problem of the engine cutting out when warm and in tick over. It's OK if you can keep the revs high but that's not always possible when manoeuvring.

 

Engineer told me it is common with old Listers and apart from "re-building it" nothing can be done and basically live with it.

 

Thanks

 

 

What sort of Lister is it? The problem sounds like it is fuel pump/governor related and an engine re-build should not be necessary to cure any problems in that area. Is the tick-over set at the right speed? If it is you might need to get the pumps serviced and/or some adjustments/ renewals in the governor but they are not an engine out job for most Listers

 

What actually happens? Does it die every time when you shut the throttle or does it tick-over for a bit then die? Will it tick over if you rev it up (out of gear) and shut the throttle slowly?

 

More information, including a detailed description of the symptoms would be helpful.

 

N

[Boat&Bikes]

Sounds fuel related to me who was the engineer advising you?

 

Ian.

[rubblequeen]

Hi Guys

thanks for replies and I'll try and give a better picture. Sorry don't know model of Lister and can't look at the moment as has been abandoned due to "starter motor failure". I can't get back now to it for over a week.

Back to cutting out problem. Have had the fuel system looked at by said engineer. It will keep going with extra revs. For the first 3-4 hours it runs nice, no prob. It's when it gets hot I have problems.

EG. going into a lock on tick over it just cuts out but will start straight away. But as you can imagine this is really not the time to be mucking about constantly having to re start the engine. (maybe doing this is what has done the starter motor)

Will it tick over if you rev it up (out of gear) and shut the throttle slowly? No will die.

Can you adjust the tickover slightly with the slow running screw? is the air filter clean? Air filter should be clean (I hope) as just had the engine serviced. Have to admit I don't know about the slow running screw.

Sounds fuel related to me who was the engineer advising you? Hmm just keeping quiet about that as I want to find out as much as possible, it was a bona fida engineer at one of the marinas.

[Canuck]

Hi, does anyone else have the problem of the engine cutting out when warm and in tick over. It's OK if you can keep the revs high but that's not always possible when manoeuvring.

 

Engineer told me it is common with old Listers and apart from "re-building it" nothing can be done and basically live with it.

 

Thanks

 

What engine oil (and how much of it) have you got in there?

[rubblequeen]

What engine oil (and how much of it) have you got in there? Fair question I'll check it out next time I see the boat.

[Tony Brooks]

What engine oil (and how much of it) have you got in there? Fair question I'll check it out next time I see the boat.

 

 

Not only check it but feel it and compare with some new oil. Also smell it to see if you can smell unburned diesel.

 

I think Canuck is thinking oil dilution, as am I, and it will show by a rising oil level and thin, dieselly oil. It is caused on those Listers with internal fuel pipes when you get a fuel leak inside the engine and any competent engineer should be able to fix it in a very few hours or less.

 

I think the running OK for a three to four hours is the clue, as may be a smell of diesel fumes around the boat.

 

 

Edited to add - based on what you have told us the engineer is suspect until we can rule out dilution.

Edited August 16, 2012 by Tony Brooks

[the grinch]

from my experience of an HA2 i found morris's oil was the best, less smoke and started 1st time everytime.

 

I agree that it sounds like a fuel issue and as it only happens when hot i doubt its filter related so its likely that its pump or injector related

if its piston rings you will more likely have oil coming out of the exhaust

[rubblequeen]

Thanks all and will check all these things out in a couple of weeks, at the moment had to abandon her until back from Wales.

[Ally]

Does it re-start when hot, or do you have to wait till it cools before it will re-start?

[nicknorman]

Does it re-start when hot, or do you have to wait till it cools before it will re-start?

See post #6

[Ally]

See post #6

oops...ok!

[rubblequeen]

Does it re-start when hot, or do you have to wait till it cools before it will re-start?

Yes no problem restarting when hot.

[Yamanx]

Respect to all those before me

 

When metal gets hot it expands, the tolerances in a diesel pump, high pressure side, are very tight. As the pump wares, it can move outside of those tolerances. Also adjustments are not necessarily made in the right direction.

 

A really good tip is to remove the pump, take it to a specialist with the correct measuring equipment, to re-calibrate. 9 from 10 they'll only have to adjust it, but you may need a new bit in there. When I got mine done I took the injectors along as well Total cost was more than I had anticipated at three hundred quid, but it was like a new engine, started without the heaters, and even now a few years later its a fantastic starter, and runner. Highly recommended.

 

I used these people, small unit just off the BCN in Wolverhampton, proper old CAV/Lucas test equipment. Nice guys, not the cheapest, but they know their onions

 

Diesel R N

Unit 2 Cable Street, Central Industrial Estate, Wolverhampton, West Midlands WV2 2HX

01902 450912

[George94]

A diesel engine will (normally) work if it has compression, fuel, and air.

 

Compression and air are easy to test. Fuel is more complicated. If you have fuel in the tank, a new filter, and the pipes are clear, then the injector pump is most probably the culprit. I totally endorse Yamanx's suggestion that you get the pump and injectors serviced.

[Tony Brooks]

Respect to all those before me

 

When metal gets hot it expands, the tolerances in a diesel pump, high pressure side, are very tight. As the pump wares, it can move outside of those tolerances. Also adjustments are not necessarily made in the right direction.

 

A really good tip is to remove the pump, take it to a specialist with the correct measuring equipment, to re-calibrate. 9 from 10 they'll only have to adjust it, but you may need a new bit in there. When I got mine done I took the injectors along as well Total cost was more than I had anticipated at three hundred quid, but it was like a new engine, started without the heaters, and even now a few years later its a fantastic starter, and runner. Highly recommended.

 

I used these people, small unit just off the BCN in Wolverhampton, proper old CAV/Lucas test equipment. Nice guys, not the cheapest, but they know their onions

 

Diesel R N

Unit 2 Cable Street, Central Industrial Estate, Wolverhampton, West Midlands WV2 2HX

01902 450912

 

 

If it is the Lister some of us think it is there will be one pump per cylinder INSIDE the engine. All set up with shims. Until we have ruled out partial seizure caused by oil dilution or get a positive ID of the engine I do not think this is a very good idea.

 

We need to ID the engine and rule out dilution and then cooling air flow (assuming its air cooled). Only then should we start considering a fuel problem and if it starts easily from cold I doubt its a worn engine. If it starts easily a soon as it has stalled (but with more throttle) I doubt its fuel. If may be a broken governor spring but lets do the simple things first.

[Yamanx]

If it is the Lister some of us think it is there will be one pump per cylinder INSIDE the engine. All set up with shims. Until we have ruled out partial seizure caused by oil dilution or get a positive ID of the engine I do not think this is a very good idea.

 

We need to ID the engine and rule out dilution and then cooling air flow (assuming its air cooled). Only then should we start considering a fuel problem and if it starts easily from cold I doubt its a worn engine. If it starts easily a soon as it has stalled (but with more throttle) I doubt its fuel. If may be a broken governor spring but lets do the simple things first.

 

I am not familiar with that particular engine, so I would bow to your experience. However, for others reading this with similar issues with diesel engines of a more common type, this is a good plan of action Makes a great deal of difference

[George94]

If it is the Lister some of us think it is there will be one pump per cylinder INSIDE the engine. All set up with shims. Until we have ruled out partial seizure caused by oil dilution or get a positive ID of the engine I do not think this is a very good idea.

 

We need to ID the engine and rule out dilution and then cooling air flow (assuming its air cooled). Only then should we start considering a fuel problem and if it starts easily from cold I doubt its a worn engine. If it starts easily a soon as it has stalled (but with more throttle) I doubt its fuel. If may be a broken governor spring but lets do the simple things first.

 

Different from my Lister then, and I am not going to argue with you.

[PhilR]

I can see where everyone is coming from with their hints at oil dilution, but the OP said it only stalls on idle after 3-4 hours running (I assume that is 3 or 4 hours and not 3/4 hour). If the cooling system is working properly there shouldn't really be much difference in engine temperature between 1 hour and 3 or 4 hours running time.

 

My own SR2 used to stall occasionally when hot. Adjusting the idling speed cured the problem (some air cooled Listers do seem to idle at a slower speed when hot than when warm).

 

But I later discovered that the air baffles had been fitted upside down resulting in a lack of proper cooling air circulation around the cylinders. I have seen 3 other LR/SR engines with baffles fitted upside down so it can't be a unique problem! But convincing a mechanic that this might be the problem could be a different matter!

 

I reckon the OP should initially get the engine checked for dirty cooling fins; wrongly fitted baffles; and idling adjustment.

[rubblequeen]

Thanks all for the suggestions. Have just spent 3 solid days bringing RQ back for the winter and having adjusted the tick over speed - no problems with cutting out.

However, over the winter will also check out all your other suggestions as they seem a good thing to do as part of the maintenance.

 

Tony

[Keeping Up]

When we had an old SR3, on hot days the longer it had been running the slower the tickover would be, until eventually it would cut out at tickover. There was a slight improvement after careful setting up of the injector pump timings, but basically we only ever solved it by increasing the tickover speed in hot weather. However that did mean that it was too fast until the engine had got really hot.

 

It overheated badly on the Trent once, after a long hot slog from Cromwell to Keadby, and cut out just as we were lining up to enter Keadby lock. That, coupled with a misunderstanding of the lock-keeper's hand-signals meant that we hit the wall beside the lock very hard; hard enough to have to buy some new screws to fix the cabin top back on, and hard enough to topple a china barrel of whisky off the worktop and break it on the floor. Half a gallon of whisky in the carpet kept the dogs drunk for a week. After that incident I regarded the increased tickover speed as a small price to pay for a reliable engine.

[rubblequeen]

Hi I remember that turning into Keadby so well after struggling with a broken propeller blade down the Trent I would have made sure all the whiskey was drunk to give me dutch courage before that lock entry. Unfortunately I had no whiskey but that didn't stop me hitting the wall - so I'll have a drink tonight to all those who have hit the lock wall or been washed out into the Humber.

[claudia]

Am I right in my understanding from this topic that the governers do have a bearing on the tickover and that a broken governer spring would affect said tickover.