3 weeks away and now can't charge batteries...

[annaschu]

Hi all....

 

This may be a bit of a feeble ask for help and very possibly covered here before but as I've had a quick look through and haven't seen similar i'll carry on...

 

I spent all spring/summer out on the cut last year, leaving the boat for a week at a time and although the batteries ran low a spin of the engine would always top them up without problems. I've just gone out for the summer (sorry, think I must be responsible for the deluge)after the winter on a landline in a marina. Unfortunately I had to leave Grace for three weeks... I got back yesterday and there's a little life left in the batteries (lights work but dim, water pump - nothing) but 2 hours of the engine on, in gear, made no difference. Before I leave her I always turn off the fridge and prop the door open and turn all the circuit board switches off. In what may be a totally unrelated problem, the bilge pump is still working but is unable to push the water right up the hose to the outside - I tried a narrower hose but still no luck. I know this is run from the battery that also starts the engine (which started!) whereas the 'inside stuff' is run from the two leisure batteries so may be a totally co-incidental issue. I'm now in the not so enviable position of having no power (therefore no water inside) and in this filthy weather having to manually bail out engine compartment due to a leaky engine board.

 

So, anything I should/could check before calling for help?

And if not, can anyone recommend a marine sparky in the Reading neighbourhood?

 

...I really do make an effort to do as much practical stuff as I can myself but I have a very healthy respect for electricity so am happy to hand over to an expert!

 

Thank you!!

 

Anna

[Chris Pink]

Do you get power to lights etc while the engine is running?

 

Do you have a voltmeter?

 

 

Bilge pump; check for debris, then try pumping into a bucket ( lower than the skin fitting )

[cereal tiller]

Hi all....

 

This may be a bit of a feeble ask for help and very possibly covered here before but as I've had a quick look through and haven't seen similar i'll carry on...

 

I spent all spring/summer out on the cut last year, leaving the boat for a week at a time and although the batteries ran low a spin of the engine would always top them up without problems. I've just gone out for the summer (sorry, think I must be responsible for the deluge)after the winter on a landline in a marina. Unfortunately I had to leave Grace for three weeks... I got back yesterday and there's a little life left in the batteries (lights work but dim, water pump - nothing) but 2 hours of the engine on, in gear, made no difference. Before I leave her I always turn off the fridge and prop the door open and turn all the circuit board switches off. In what may be a totally unrelated problem, the bilge pump is still working but is unable to push the water right up the hose to the outside - I tried a narrower hose but still no luck. I know this is run from the battery that also starts the engine (which started!) whereas the 'inside stuff' is run from the two leisure batteries so may be a totally co-incidental issue. I'm now in the not so enviable position of having no power (therefore no water inside) and in this filthy weather having to manually bail out engine compartment due to a leaky engine board.

 

So, anything I should/could check before calling for help?

And if not, can anyone recommend a marine sparky in the Reading neighbourhood?

 

...I really do make an effort to do as much practical stuff as I can myself but I have a very healthy respect for electricity so am happy to hand over to an expert!

 

Thank you!!

 

Anna

p.m. sent

[dccruiser]

If your bilge pump is definately connected to the starter battery then i would suggest you take the bottom off , most unscrew or unclip and ensure the impellor is ok and not fouled.

Most bilge pumps are wired to the leisure batteries and have a constant feed, i.e. they are not disconnected when the batteries are isolated at the fuse board, which is why the leisure batteries go down over a period of not being used and isolated, whereas the starter battery always maintains its charge for a far longer period.

 

Rick

[Chris Pink]

 

Most bilge pumps are wired to the leisure batteries and have a constant feed, i.e. they are not disconnected when the batteries are isolated at the fuse board, which is why the leisure batteries go down over a period of not being used and isolated, whereas the starter battery always maintains its charge for a far longer period.

 

 

Not true.

 

Best practice is to wire the bilge pump to the engine battery, along with other navigation services; horn tunnel light. When you need power to the bilge pump you don't want to worry whether your domestics have enough power.

 

The OP states the bilge pump is connected to the engine battery.

 

It would be wise, however, to check.

[Arthur Brown]

The electrical system should protect the starter battery from uses other than the starter, -it doesn't obviously so there is one problem.

 

That the bilge pump can't pump water as far as the outlet means that the battery is flat, that the lights are visibly dim means that the batteries are flat.

 

Something is using electricity while you are parked, which is unfortunate and should be minimised BUT something is flattening the started battery which should be sorted strait away.

 

Is there a switch or link that joins the two batteries? Do you have two batteries? How old are the batteries -self discharge is a sign of age related failure.

 

Are you on a mooring, do you want help, if so what help?

[by'eck]

The fact that the starter battery started the engine suggest its far from completely flat. Everything else points to leisure batteries flat though. They should have shown signs of recovering after the engine had been running for a while though, so check the engine alternator(s) is charging them. A voltmeter to measure battery volts with/without engine running will verify this. Also check the electrolyte level in them if not sealed type. If they are particularly old they may have reached the end of their life.

 

The bilge pump issue whilst seemingly unrelated may be though. I suspect its connected to the leisure batteries which would explain the problem. Are you absolutely sure its connected to the same battery that started the engine?

[Arthur Brown]

Lights dim, water pump nothing and bilge pump nothing shows clearly that that they're trying to run off a flat battery.

 

How big (in amphours ) is your house battery? How old is it? What type is it? How many alternators are fastened to the main engine?

 

If your leisure batteries are flat then two hours with the engine spinning probably will not get them past a quarter full so they will be discharging to flat very quickly again, and batteries left flat die by sulphating.

[dccruiser]

Not true.

 

Best practice is to wire the bilge pump to the engine battery, along with other navigation services; horn tunnel light. When you need power to the bilge pump you don't want to worry whether your domestics have enough power.

 

The OP states the bilge pump is connected to the engine battery.

 

It would be wise, however, to check.

 

 

Sorry Chris, with all due respect, i have to totally disagree with you it is certainly not best practice, every boat i have owned or wired up has been wired to protect the starter battery, therefore although the nav lights, tunnel light, horn and vhf radio are wired to the starter battery circuit as they are only used whilst the engine is running and replacing the charge, there is no logical reason to attach the bilge pump to this circuit, particularly with a boat left off grid, as the starter battery has to be good as it provides the starting power so that the engine can be used to charge the leisure batteries.

A bilge pump running periodically on a leisure battery bank is unlikely to deep cycle those batteries unless the boat is left for a long period of time and even if that is the case they will keep the bilge pump running for a far longer period of time than a single starter battery, particularly in the case of a potentially sinking boat.

 

Your case , leave a boat with an 80 amp starter battery to keep the bilge pump running as required for an indefinate period of time...then HOPE on returning to the boat there is enough to start the engine to replace the charge used and in the case of a badly leaking boat the battery isnt totally flat and the bilge pump hasnt used up the potential 80 amps of power.

 

My case, leave a boat with a bank of anything from a single 110 amp DEEP CYCLE Leisure battery or in most cases at least 2 to 4 giving far more amps from a battery/batteries designed for just that purpose for an indefinate period of time .... KNOWING that the engine will start to replace the charge used and in the case of a bank of batteries it is unlikely they are depleted to a very low state of charge..... and in the case of a badly leaking boat ran the bilge pump for a proportionately longer time dependant on the amps of the battery bank

 

As i said Chris, with the greatest respect your case is certainly not best practice at all and makes no sense whatsoever.

 

Rick

[Chris Pink]

You are wrong but I'm not going to argue.

 

The OP stated her bilge pump is connected to the engine battery. If this is the case and on a forum you have to accept what people state then, as her engine starts, the problem is more likely crud in the pump.

 

But as I said before it is wise to check as the other diagnosis is that it is connected to the domestics.

 

(the clue is in the name)

[blodger]

I would take the batts off to home one at a time and see if they can be resuscitated plugged into the mains for a week having topped up/tested with a hydrometer, etc; Else sounds like new batts needed.

[bizzard]

Carrying a pair of long commercial jumper leads to get a jump start off another boat is money well spent.

[blodger]

Carrying a pair of long commercial jumper leads to get a jump start off another boat is money well spent.

You can also get a secondhand genny or make a lawnmower one for about 50 quid but then come the stowage problems with the inevitability of petrol involved.

For most the equivalent spent on solar would obviate 'absence' problems

It is quite hard for access reasons often to share your batts using jump leads but an essential bit of kit

[dor]

but 2 hours of the engine on, in gear, made no difference

 

Firstly you should not be running in gear when stationary to charge your batteries.

 

although the batteries ran low a spin of the engine would always top them up without problems

 

The problem here is that it wasn't topping them up. Even only two leisure batteries would need the engine running for about 8 hours or more to top them up when they were noticably low. What you have probably done is sulphate your batteries over the last year and three weeks in a partly charged condition has finished them off.

[bizzard]

You can also get a secondhand genny or make a lawnmower one for about 50 quid but then come the stowage problems with the inevitability of petrol involved.

For most the equivalent spent on solar would obviate 'absence' problems

It is quite hard for access reasons often to share your batts using jump leads but an essential bit of kit

If the leads are long enough they'll reach most batteries.Although most modern wide beam cruiser stern boats have them tucked up under the afterdeck in a ridiculously cramped up position,accessed by an appalling abortion of ''on most'' i point out, dangerous,unwealdly ill thought out sheet of steel plate deckboard that's likely to chop yer toes off, or a sodden and heavy old sheet of plywood. Jumper leads are also very useful for carrying out certain other tests too.

[Chris Pink]

If the leads are long enough they'll reach most batteries.Although most modern wide beam cruiser stern boats have them tucked up under the afterdeck in a ridiculously cramped up position,accessed by an appalling abortion of ''on most'' i point out, dangerous,unwealdly ill thought out sheet of steel plate deckboard that's likely to chop yer toes off, or a sodden and heavy old sheet of plywood.

 

Funnily enough I know exactly what you mean.

[Arthur Brown]

Do you need help today? Do you have a charger, would a generator help if run for a few hours?

 

If you have a bilge water problem then this needs sorting before long, before the water kills a generator.

[bottle]

Anna

 

If you have not lost the will to live after some of the posts so far.

 

Then may i suggest you take note of posts #3 and #14.

 

That is all !!!

[Arthur Brown]

Last Active:

User is offline Today, 05:35 AM

[Chris Pink]

Trouble is - electrical fault finding is a question of working through the symptoms systematically to a solution. When the OP returns to this thread she will likely be faced with an overload of conflicting guesses and wild assumptions that don't move to that goal.

 

Until there is an answer to post #2 or someone goes to her the speculation on this thread is completely counter productive.

[Guest]

Trouble is - electrical fault finding is a question of working through the symptoms systematically to a solution. When the OP returns to this thread she will likely be faced with an overload of conflicting guesses and wild assumptions that don't move to that goal.

 

Until there is an answer to post #2 or someone goes to her the speculation on this thread is completely counter productive.

 

It's not just with electrical systems though Chris it's the problem with all questions of a remotely technical nature. Until you have been on here a while and sussed out who's advice you can trust this will always be the way...

[ditchcrawler]

Carrying a pair of long commercial jumper leads to get a jump start off another boat is money well spent.

worth a greeny

[dccruiser]

You are wrong but I'm not going to argue.

 

The OP stated her bilge pump is connected to the engine battery. If this is the case and on a forum you have to accept what people state then, as her engine starts, the problem is more likely crud in the pump.

 

But as I said before it is wise to check as the other diagnosis is that it is connected to the domestics.

 

(the clue is in the name)

 

Chris, in post nine i did not mention the OP's post i had already said the same as you in post 4 regarding that.

 

What i was questioning was your statement i was wrong and what you deem as best practice as that is what i disagree with. I am not here to argue, i just wrote out both cases in post 9 and still cannot see why your case would ever be best practice, especially as i have a cruiser stern boat that does as many do , take on water through the engine cover plate in weather like this, and should i not be able to get to the boat through circumstance, i would rather the bilge pump have my large battery bank to use up rather than kill my single 80amp starter battery as it is designed to start the boat by providing lots of amps quickly, rather than a few amps over a long period as my DEEP CYCLE batteries are, despite any other name they are given.

 

Rick

[Chris Pink]

I am not here to argue,

 

 

No? How can I tell?

 

What hypocrisy.

[cereal tiller]

It's not just with electrical systems though Chris it's the problem with all questions of a remotely technical nature. Until you have been on here a while and sussed out who's advice you can trust this will always be the way...

Have sent the OP a pm offering assistance.

 

will let forum members know the outcome.

 

be cool, people.