Fitting a Bow Thruster

[Guest]

Mike, I tend to ignore the smart-asses who know that BTs are unnecessary. Of course they are the experts, they are right, and we should know better. So I just turn my deaf ear to them.

 

 

 

Just for badness I'm considering fitting a BT to my Frolic 21 'toy boat'. It is very difficult to turn in a narrow channel.

 

Chris - saying a bow thruster is not necessary does not make someone a smart arse, it is a fact they aren't - otherwise we would have got stuck somewhere without one and been unable to extract ourselves.

 

They are however useful in certain situations (one being the issue I described above in my earlier post) however because Jan learned the 'Leeds lock wiggle' while in the short locks we proved we could manage perfectly well without one.

[ChrisPy]

Chris - saying a bow thruster is not necessary does not make someone a smart arse, it is a fact they aren't - otherwise we would have got stuck somewhere without one and been unable to extract ourselves.

 

They are however useful in certain situations (one being the issue I described above in my earlier post) however because Jan learned the 'Leeds lock wiggle' while in the short locks we proved we could manage perfectly well without one.

definite case of sense of humour shortfall syndrome

 

 

PS try reversing in or out of some marinas in a cross wind in reverse. Leeds lock wiggle is child's play.

[Guest]

So why are not all boats fitted with them as standard?? if they were truly necessary they would be.

 

As I said there are situations where they make things easier - including the one you described.

 

Having a different opinion to you is not a failure of sense of humour BTW, nor does it make anyone a smart arse.

[RLWP]

<snip>

 

So I just turn my deaf ear to them.

 

<snip>

 

I had never considered hearing-loss as a consequence of owning a bowthruster

 

Richard

[jelunga]

In addition to the other suggestions you can get a portable one. It is often referred to as a wife, thought sometimes as husband or even partner. You put a boatpole in their hands and shout "shove" They are quite useful for assistance at locks - much more so the the Vetus model, and if asked nicely can even make tea.

Yeh, but the female version is even more expensive than a Vetus, especially if you want to upgrade to a newer model

Edited April 21, 2012 by jelunga

[blackrose]

So why are not all boats fitted with them as standard?? if they were truly necessary they would be.

 

As I said there are situations where they make things easier - including the one you described.

 

Having a different opinion to you is not a failure of sense of humour BTW, nor does it make anyone a smart arse.

 

Why aren't all boats fitted with twin screws, wheel steering, electric anchor winches, stern thrusters, echo sounders, etc, as standard? In fact why aren't all boats even fitted with engines? None of these things are strictly necessary.

 

I don't think those who criticise the installation and use of BTs are always smart arses (but some are!) However, the fact is that most canal boaters who do criticise have never actually owned or used a BT and they just criticise in a knee-jerk fashion. They fail to appreciate that their diesel engines were also not thought of as strictly neccesary in years gone by when horses still pulled boats along. The same sort of luddite attitudes just aren't found to the same extent in other spheres of boating such as yachting where many of the boats with BTs are smaller, lighter, easier to steer and have a lot more room to manouvre.

Edited April 21, 2012 by blackrose

[Arthur Brown]

Having watched the "Grand Turk" turn in St Katherine's Dock the use of a bow thruster was obvious and necessary. Some narrow boaters will find their driving style and location makes a BT more or less necessary -some will still like the convenience.

[Guest]

Why aren't all boats fitted with twin screws, wheel steering, electric anchor winches, stern thrusters, echo sounders, etc, as standard? In fact why aren't all boats even fitted with engines? None of these things are strictly necessary.

 

I don't think those who criticise the installation and use of BTs are always smart arses (but some are!) However, the fact is that most canal boaters who do criticise have never actually owned or used a BT and they just criticise in a knee-jerk fashion. The same sort of luddite attitudes just aren't found to the same extent in other spheres of boating such as yachting where many of the boats with BTs are smaller, lighter, easier to steer and have a lot more room to manouvre.

 

How far do you want to take it though in terms of 'accessories' v 'essentials'.

 

You are right though - I have seen criticism of them on here which does seem to be done just for the sake of it. I'm not criticising any body though, I'm offering an opinion based on the fact we have never ever found one to be 'necessary' on a 60ft NB and we have managed without one very successfully.

 

That said I've seen them applied with some aplomb on bigger/wider boats like yours and the odd dutch barge or two while we've out on our current trip.

 

I'm not saying we would never have one, particularly if we ever get a bigger/wider boat, we've just never needed one so far. If we buy used I certainly wouldn't dismiss a boat we like just because it had a BT.

 

[Biggles]

My last NB was 60' and in 5 years I never felt the need for a BT. But on the wide beam it's just not fair to expect my wife to pole it about. It's 10 tones heavier for a start, and of course it's 10 tones heavier for a stop without the added force of momentum. I always have visions of her becoming stuck on the end of the pole agaist the front wall. I know someone this happend to in a 40' and she damn near died of a split liver.

 

IMO money well spent, infact wish I had put in a stern thruster too. That will spark another debate.

[ChrisPy]

the BT sceptics are SO easy to wind up .................... misplaced puritanism ..........

(but I'm glad I didn't live in the 17th century) :lol:

[Guest]

the BT sceptics are SO easy to wind up .................... misplaced puritanism ..........

(but I'm glad I didn't live in the 17th century) :lol:

 

Who is getting wound up Chris?? - there is a discussion going on about the merits of a BT or otherwise....

 

Perhaps you might like to add something meaningful to it....

 

My last NB was 60' and in 5 years I never felt the need for a BT. But on the wide beam it's just not fair to expect my wife to pole it about. It's 10 tones heavier for a start, and of course it's 10 tones heavier for a stop without the added force of momentum. I always have visions of her becoming stuck on the end of the pole agaist the front wall. I know someone this happend to in a 40' and she damn near died of a split liver.

 

IMO money well spent, infact wish I had put in a stern thruster too. That will spark another debate.

 

You make an interesting distinction between bigger and wider boats and narrow-boats.

 

Ro ro ferries have them (very big and wide) - I wonder at which point they would be considered essential in terms of boat/ship size....

[bowten]

Take a course on boat handling.Better still in a few months of steering in all weather you will become the envy of all.There are certain tactics you will learn in order to steer your boat without the need for an expensive and often troublesome accessory.But if you have the money and don't fancy your chances when reversing or winding its up to thee.

[Guest]

Take a course on boat handling.Better still in a few months of steering in all weather you will become the envy of all.There are certain tactics you will learn in order to steer your boat without the need for an expensive and often troublesome accessory.But if you have the money and don't fancy your chances when reversing or winding its up to thee.

 

Ok curious -

 

what type of boat do you have and what is it's length?

[bowten]

Ok curious -

 

what type of boat do you have and what is it's length?

My usual size of boat is 55'x10',however the one I am building at the moment is 57'x11'.I prefer my widebeams yer see.

[Paul C]

I can think of many scenarios where a BT isn't strictly necessary, but is very advantageous. The obvious one is getting in or out of a marina, but there are others. The main issue being steering in reverse. Yes, its possible to steer in reverse - but even the best skipper is going to get the positioning of the boat approximate rather than 'to the inch', and if small corrections in direction are needed then the only way is to put it into forwards, tiller over and give some power - which knocks off the 'reverse' speed in the process. So, a BT equipped boat can accelerate faster and steer more accurately in reverse.

 

A typical scenario where this is very useful is meeting another boat at a bridge hole on a corner. One might be approaching the bridge and meet another closer boat nose on, so a reverse (or at least a stop) is required. Do this without a BT and you're direction isn't fully under control any more, so you'll be at best not in the best position for that other boat to pass you, and at worst drifted across the canal blocking passage and/or stuck on the bank. With the BT one can confidently get a bunch of power on backwards and steer the boat in a controlled fashion right out of the way to let the other pass. Add in a corner a little tighter, weeds/reeds near the bridge, moored boats parked that little bit too close to the bridge, etc and the added advantage of the BT soon becomes apparent.

 

I am sure you can think of a few other examples in your travels, where you 'got on fine' without the BT but its use would have been of benefit, maybe not directly to you but to smooth the passage of others and make a 5 minute maneouvre into a simple 30 second job.

[Guest]

My usual size of boat is 55'x10',however the one I am building at the moment is 57'x11'.I prefer my widebeams yer see.

 

Interesting...

[ChrisPy]

Who is getting wound up Chris?? - there is a discussion going on about the merits of a BT or otherwise....

 

Perhaps you might like to add something meaningful to it....

 

 

 

 

or I could refer you to numerous threads where I have done just that.

 

The characteristic of all such threads is the contribution of a group of purists who seem to object to us making this choice and believe that we are all wimps, poor helmsmen and not "real men".

 

if you follow the development of this thread you may notice that it was about how to fit a bow thruster, and I was critical of the way in which it began to deteriorate into a discussion about the NEED for a BT (as usual), introduced by the BT sceptic brigade.

Maybe we should give them a title - BT Salvation Army?

Edited April 22, 2012 by ChrisPy

[Biggles]

Take a course on boat handling.Better still in a few months of steering in all weather you will become the envy of all.There are certain tactics you will learn in order to steer your boat without the need for an expensive and often troublesome accessory.But if you have the money and don't fancy your chances when reversing or winding its up to thee.

 

 

Winding?

 

I wll do a video sometime soon of just now my 60x12 winds with a Shilling type rudder. It spins on a sixpence. Keep watching. Of course I could use my BT as well but there is no need. The BT is just an accessory.

[Guest]

or I could refer you to numerous threads where I have done just that.

 

The characteristic of all such threads is the contribution of a group of purists who seem to object to us making this choice and believe that we are all wimps, poor helmsmen and not "real men".

 

if you follow the development of this thread you may notice that it was about how to fit a bow thruster, and I was critical of the way in which it began to deteriorate into a discussion about the NEED for a BT (as usual), introduced by the BT sceptic brigade.

Maybe we should give them a title - BT Salvation Army?

 

I see nothing wrong though with pointing out to the OP that he might want to re-consider and spend the funds on something else though - it's a discussion forum and we don't know how much the OP has actually thought about it. Most of the queries were reasoned and well intended and not 'smart arseish'

[blackrose]

... there is a discussion going on about the merits of a BT or otherwise....

 

That's part of what I was talking about. It didn't start as a discussion about the merits of a BT or otherwise, it started as someone wanting to know how they were installed. I realise than many threads go off topic and that's often just a natural part of any discussion on this forum. However, in the case of BTs I challenge you to find a single thread in the archives where any question about the installation or operation of bow thrusters has not then elicited a torrent of knee-jerk criticism from the nay-sayers.

 

Take a course on boat handling.Better still in a few months of steering in all weather you will become the envy of all.There are certain tactics you will learn in order to steer your boat without the need for an expensive and often troublesome accessory.But if you have the money and don't fancy your chances when reversing or winding its up to thee.

 

Why does it have to be either/or? Why can't someone know how to steer their boat and also have a BT? I can and do.

Edited April 22, 2012 by blackrose

[bowten]

Interesting...

Hmmmmmmm.

 

That's part of what I was talking about. It didn't start as a discussion about the merits of a BT or otherwise, it started as someone wanting to know how they were installed. I realise than many threads go off topic and that's often just a natural part of any discussion on this forum. However, in the case of BTs I challenge you to find a single thread in the archives where any question about the installation or operation of bow thrusters has not then elicited a torrent of knee-jerk criticism from the nay-sayers.

 

 

 

Why does it have to be either/or? Why can't someone know how to steer their boat and also have a BT? I can and do.

As I said it's up to thee.

[Danny1234]

Hello to all

Thank you for your comments/feedback.

I had noticed, when reading through various forums/topics that the 'bow thruster debate' can get quite.... lively!

My feeling is I should get one ... as

- I'm new to boating .... so will go on a course for a day or 2, but am not intending to do that much travelling in the first year or so, so it may take me some months (longer) to really get a grip on steering it.

- I've got a slot in a marina (48' x 12'), which to me looks very tight. From what I can see, the gap between the row of boats where I will be, and the row opposite, must only be slightly more than 48'. Don't know for sure, but even the people working at the marina claim it's quite tight.

- I'll be a single 'navigator' a fair bit of the time

- Getting a wife just for such purposes sounds a bit ..... excessive, ..... maybe that could be my opening line (though I'm not expecting too much from that one)

- I will normally have to reverse to get back in to the mooring. The way I'm designing the boat, it won't have a 'front door' (at the bow) as such. There will be a couple of escape hatches at the front, but the door (full sizish) will be at the stern. I don't want to be clambering in and out of the escape hatch all the time, ...

- Costs, .... yes, not massively happy about that, .... seems about £4K including the extra work to the hull/shell, but, .... other than my mooring/marina issues, I' still think I'd like that piece of mind, knowing that it is there

- Did consider a stern thruster, .... but one thing at a time

 

Best I don't at this point, start going on about my possible plans for a 'removable' bow thruster (something like an outboard motor arrangement), ...... I'll make sure I can get a conventional arrangement to work first.

Anyway, ... cheers

I will let you know how it pans out in due course

 

Danny

Edited April 23, 2012 by Danny1234

[STIG]

Hey Danny, any debate on here will get heated,( I`ll probably get slatted for that comment ) but it`s all supposed to be informative. Everybody will have a view - I am not new to boating but I am new to having my own boat so I speak from my own experience, but of course not everyone will. Happy cruisin

Hello to all

Thank you for your comments/feedback.

I had noticed, when reading through various forums/topics that the 'bow thruster debate' can get quite.... lively!

My feeling is I should get one ... as

- I'm new to boating .... so will go on a course for a day or 2, but am not intending to do that much travelling in the first year or so, so it may take me some months (longer) to really get a grip on steering it.

- I've got a slot in a marina (48' x 12'), which to me looks very tight. From what I can see, the gap between the row of boats where I will be, and the row opposite, must only be slightly more than 48'. Don't know for sure, but even the people working at the marina claim it's quite tight.

- I'll be a single 'navigator' a fair bit of the time

- Getting a wife just for such purposes sounds a bit ..... excessive, ..... maybe that could be my opening line (though I'm not expecting too much from that one)

- I will normally have to reverse to get back in to the mooring. The way I'm designing the boat, it won't have a 'front door' (at the bow) as such. There will be a couple of escape hatches at the front, but the door (full sizish) will be at the stern. I don't want to be clambering in and out of the escape hatch all the time, ...

- Costs, .... yes, not massively happy about that, .... seems about £4K including the extra work to the hull/shell, but, .... other than my mooring/marina issues, I' still think I'd like that piece of mind, knowing that it is there

- Did consider a stern thruster, .... but one thing at a time

 

Best I don't at this point, start going on about my possible plans for a 'removable' bow thruster (something like an outboard motor arrangement), ...... I'll make sure I can get a conventional arrangement to work first.

Anyway, ... cheers

I will let you know how it pans out in due course

 

Danny