Lister LPWS4 Stopped Stopping!

[Stormbringer]

Hi

 

My Lister LPWS4 has recently failed to stop using the ignition switch !

I quickly put the ignition back on(thinking of alternators!) and decended into the engine bay.

I noticed on the engine control box alongside the engine that there was a pair of buttons one

of which was labelled Engine Fuel Supply cut off (or something similar).

I pressed the button in and tried again turning the key and it shut the engine down as normal.

 

Couple of questions really to anyone who can help...

1. What is the best way to troubleshoot this issue ?

2. Have I damaged my alternators at all by turning the ignition off with the engine continuing to run ?

3. What is the little button doing ? Is it a trip reset or soem kind of manual override ?

 

I have yet to delve into the box, but a drawing on the top suggests that the box contains some relays?

I have the manuals for the engine but can find no mention of said control box...

 

Any info would be much appreciated - its a bit of a pain lifting the steel chequerplate engine covers

everytime I need to stop the engine!

 

Cheers

Andy

[Ray T]

I had a similar problem on my LPWS3 and this solenoid had packed up.

 

 

Facing the front of the boat it is towards the front of the engine on the left hand side.

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/370497436994?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

 

 

[Stormbringer]

Thanks RayT

 

Very helpful indeed !

 

Any idea what the little button does then - as it does stop normally once that has been pressed ?

 

Cheers

Andy

[Keith M]

Hi

 

My Lister LPWS4 has recently failed to stop using the ignition switch !

I quickly put the ignition back on(thinking of alternators!) and decended into the engine bay.

I noticed on the engine control box alongside the engine that there was a pair of buttons one

of which was labelled Engine Fuel Supply cut off (or something similar).

I pressed the button in and tried again turning the key and it shut the engine down as normal.

 

Couple of questions really to anyone who can help...

1. What is the best way to troubleshoot this issue ?

2. Have I damaged my alternators at all by turning the ignition off with the engine continuing to run ?

3. What is the little button doing ? Is it a trip reset or soem kind of manual override ?

 

I have yet to delve into the box, but a drawing on the top suggests that the box contains some relays?

I have the manuals for the engine but can find no mention of said control box...

 

Any info would be much appreciated - its a bit of a pain lifting the steel chequerplate engine covers

everytime I need to stop the engine!

 

Cheers

Andy

 

 

I think the little button is a circuit breaker

 

Keith

[Ray T]

I don't appear to have a little button mine, Just the wiring disappearing into the loom from the solenoid.

 

I dispensed with the solenoid to stop the engine and put a mechanical "T" pull in its place

 

 

The engine stop is now the red T pull handle just visible in the RHS of the photo.

 

When I stop the engine I usually put the ignition to O (off) then pull the engine stop, hasn't damaged my electrics. If you think about it turning the key to engine stop performs the same function as on my set up I had to go past O to the stop position

 

Edited March 4, 2012 by Ray T

[Stormbringer]

I think the little button is a circuit breaker

 

Keith

 

Thanks Keith

 

I think I'll have to have a look in the box !

The engine runs on OK after the button is pressed - then will stop by turning the key past OFF as usual.

I was wondering if it was some sort of reset maybe?

 

Cheers

Andy

 

I don't appear to have a little button mine, Just the wiring disappearing into the loom from the solenoid.

 

I dispensed with the solenoid to stop the engine and put a mechanical "T" pull in its place

 

 

The engine stop is now the red T pull handle just visible in the RHS of the photo.

 

When I stop the engine I usually put the ignition to O (off) then pull the engine stop, hasn't damaged my electrics. If you think about it turning the key to engine stop performs the same function as on my set up I had to go past O to the stop position

 

 

Thanks Ray

 

Yes - I wasn't thinking straight there ! Of course the ignition goes to OFF anyway before it reaches the engine stop

postition....Thanks for that !

 

Depending how I get on I might well follow your lead and go 'mechanical'!

Thanks for the help - much appreciated

 

Cheers

Andy

[Keith M]

Thanks Keith

 

I think I'll have to have a look in the box !

The engine runs on OK after the button is pressed - then will stop by turning the key past OFF as usual.

I was wondering if it was some sort of reset maybe?

 

Cheers

Andy

 

If I remember rightly there are some relays etc

 

Keith

 

 

Thanks Ray

 

Yes - I wasn't thinking straight there ! Of course the ignition goes to OFF anyway before it reaches the engine stop

postition....Thanks for that !

 

Depending how I get on I might well follow your lead and go 'mechanical'!

Thanks for the help - much appreciated

 

Cheers

Andy

Edited March 4, 2012 by Keith M

[Stormbringer]

Thanks Keith

 

That is also my understanding (some relays)

I was thinking (hoping!) that one of them may be the problem.

 

Cheers

Andy

[jonathanA]

I had exactly the same problem a little while ago - moored up for lunch and engine wouldn't stop...

 

The little button on the top is simply a circuit breaker (trip). like you - I reset it (pushed it back in) and its worked fine ever since. Obviously if it keeps tripping then further investigation is required...

 

inside the little plastic box are a couple of relays and the heater plug timer/relay. I stopped the engine by manually moving the engine stop lever (which is what the solenoid does) then discovered the trip.

 

wouldn't worry about it unless it happens again...

 

ETA- The issue for alternators is disconnecting them (from the batteries) whilst the engine is running - they don't like it apparently...

Edited March 5, 2012 by jonathanA

[Stormbringer]

I had exactly the same problem a little while ago - moored up for lunch and engine wouldn't stop...

 

The little button on the top is simply a circuit breaker (trip). like you - I reset it (pushed it back in) and its worked fine ever since. Obviously if it keeps tripping then further investigation is required...

 

inside the little plastic box are a couple of relays and the heater plug timer/relay. I stopped the engine by manually moving the engine stop lever (which is what the solenoid does) then discovered the trip.

 

wouldn't worry about it unless it happens again...

 

ETA- The issue for alternators is disconnecting them (from the batteries) whilst the engine is running - they don't like it apparently...

 

Thanks JonathanA

 

Looks like I have some checking to do when I get back to the boat !

 

It did keep tripping so looks like something is pulling too much load in that circuit.

 

Cheers

Andy

[jonathanA]

I'd check the solenoid - perhaps the moving bit has got gunged up or something, might be worth checking the wiring loom from the box to the solenoid to see if any of the wiring has chafed on something/got damaged.

 

good luck

[Stormbringer]

I'd check the solenoid - perhaps the moving bit has got gunged up or something, might be worth checking the wiring loom from the box to the solenoid to see if any of the wiring has chafed on something/got damaged.

 

good luck

 

Thanks mate

I would say your 1st suggestion sounds likely, along with maybe a sticky soleniod.

Thanks to RayT for the photo - now I know what to look for and and where to look

I'll have a good check over it all this weekend and post back with my findings

 

Cheers for the help everyone - much appreciated

 

Andy

[Rojo]

I had this problem in Sept.09, this is the reply I recieved from Marine Engine Services.

 

The electrical trip is a protection device for the stop solenoid which has a high pull-in current but then when fully travelled reverts to a lower "holding" current which is well within the rating of the trip. If the solenoid is prevented from going fully "home" the contacts in its base will not be operated & it will not revert to the holding current - this causes the trip to break.

You can check this by ensuring that when the solenoid is pushed fully home there is a small clearance between the stop lever and the screw head which it abuts. Do not adjust the screw setting but if necessary lengthen the linkage where the clevis goes onto the central core (10mm spanner) to ensure there is a clearance here.

This will generally sort out the problem but if the trip still operates then either it or the solenoid is at fault.

 

Mine was out of tolerance, since adjustment it has been no problem!

[Stormbringer]

I had this problem in Sept.09, this is the reply I recieved from Marine Engine Services.

 

The electrical trip is a protection device for the stop solenoid which has a high pull-in current but then when fully travelled reverts to a lower "holding" current which is well within the rating of the trip. If the solenoid is prevented from going fully "home" the contacts in its base will not be operated & it will not revert to the holding current - this causes the trip to break.

You can check this by ensuring that when the solenoid is pushed fully home there is a small clearance between the stop lever and the screw head which it abuts. Do not adjust the screw setting but if necessary lengthen the linkage where the clevis goes onto the central core (10mm spanner) to ensure there is a clearance here.

This will generally sort out the problem but if the trip still operates then either it or the solenoid is at fault.

 

Mine was out of tolerance, since adjustment it has been no problem!

 

Thanks Rojo

That's great info and completes the picture nicely !

 

Armed with all this info I hope to get to the boat this weekend to check it all over

 

Thanks again for your help - it's much appreciated

 

Andy

[Chris-B]

Thanks Rojo

That's great info and completes the picture nicely !

 

Armed with all this info I hope to get to the boat this weekend to check it all over

 

Thanks again for your help - it's much appreciated

 

Andy

 

If you look on our website www.marineengine.co.uk there is a document in technical information about setting this up

hope it helps

Chris

[Stormbringer]

If you look on our website www.marineengine.co.uk there is a document in technical information about setting this up

hope it helps

Chris

 

Brilliant Chris - many thanks.

A great document that......

 

I didn't make it to the boat over the weekend but will report back once I have had a look.

 

Cheers

Andy

[Stormbringer]

Ok - Just to put this one to bed.....

 

Firstly - thanks all for the input and advice - much appreciated.

 

Everybody was very close !

I finally got to look at the solenoid today - and found that the bolt that holds the linkage from the solenoid to the stop arm had been cunningly unscrewing itself with each use of the stop system.

This had put a considerable side load on the linkage - enough to cause the overload to trip when operating the solenoid.

I tightened the bolt back up and the soleniod fired without tripping the overload straight away. Result!

 

It was slightly out of adjustment too, so I set it all up as per the pdf on ChrisB's website (many thanks for that ChrisB)

 

Gave it few tries and all is well !

 

Cheers

Andy

[pluto83]

If you guys are still here, I have a issue,  and  its I do not know where the relay or solenoid needs to be wired, is it to the alternator, starter, something else. ?

All links and images above are now not available on this original post, can we do a show me yours and our show you mine sort of post. Sometimes a pic really helps.

[Alan de Enfield]

31 minutes ago, pluto83 said:

If you guys are still here, I have a issue,  and  its I do not know where the relay or solenoid needs to be wired, is it to the alternator, starter, something else. ?

All links and images above are now not available on this original post, can we do a show me yours and our show you mine sort of post. Sometimes a pic really helps.

Do the workshop manuals not show how to wire it ?

Edited October 29, 2019 by Alan de Enfield

[pluto83]

19 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

I have the LPWS workshop manuals on Pdf but since the new software updates do not now allow Pdf's o the forum I cannot post them.

If you want - Send me a PM with your email address and I'll forward it to you. It may give the answers you need.

I do have a load of manuals now thanks, the electric part of and the various options for them, is what I am struggling to follow.

I will start a post with what I'm facing tomorrow and some images. I had help initially getting it started and he cut out the relay, solenoid, the lister panel + ignition+fuse box. my main interest is just figuring out where is best to reattach and test the old relay and solenoid etc, and get a fuse box. If I could see images it will be so much easier for me to get my head around, I'm willing to have a go at it but being mechanically minded,  I'm a complete novice.

 

Try this site for uploading the manuals  https://www.docdroid.net/

is like paste bin

https://docdro.id/1iFuOG2

Edited October 29, 2019 by pluto83

[Alan de Enfield]

3 minutes ago, pluto83 said:

Try this site for uploading the manuals  https://www.docdroid.net/

is like paste bin

 

Lets try :

 

LPWS Wiring Diagrams

 

https://docdro.id/er5ZcpT

It works - Handy to know (but this is the only forum (of several I use) that's has banned the use of Pdf's.

 

Thanks.

[pluto83]

5 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Lets try :

 

LPWS Wiring Diagrams

 

https://docdro.id/er5ZcpT

It works - Handy to know (but this is the only forum (of several I use) that's has banned the use of Pdf's.

 

Thanks.

I prefer IRC like freenode, but not the best for Lister Petter engines. Your welcome mate

[jonathanA]

Quote :

 

I had help initially getting it started and he cut out the relay, solenoid, the lister panel + ignition+fuse box. my main interest is just figuring out where is best to reattach and test the old relay and solenoid etc, and get a fuse box

 

cant help feeling that was help you could have done without they haven’t really done you any favours by bastardising the manufacturer’s wiring. 
 

anyway it’s all very basic and simple the stop solenoid simply move the stop lever in the same way as a manual stop control. Two wires to the stop solenoid one -ve and the other connected to the stop position on the ignition switch. In the proper lister setup

there is a relay rather than a direct connection between the ignition switch and the stop solenoid .

 

hope that helps

 

 

Edited October 31, 2019 by jonathanA