Oil filter - what a pain!

[markb]

I just need to moan.

 

Did the oil change on the BMC 1.5 in my boat last night. First of all the pump mounted on the engine to drain the oil out does nothing which is annoying but not a show-stopper.

 

Got the oil drained, replaced the filter without too much mess, did the filter back up being as careful as I could to get it all square on the seal, fire it up: instant leak.

 

re-seated the filter bowl: instant leak.

 

re-seated the filter bowl: done, wait 15-20 secs, pop goes the seal covering the engine in oil.

 

and again...

 

and again...

 

and again...

 

The last time I had it running a couple of times for 30secs or so with no issues, but I'm still not 100% sure it's not going to pop out again, but I'd had enough and didn't want to cover everything in oil again, so I'll run it up again tonight and keep my fingers crossed.

 

What a rubbish design.

 

[/moan]

[David Schweizer]

I just need to moan.

 

Did the oil change on the BMC 1.5 in my boat last night. First of all the pump mounted on the engine to drain the oil out does nothing which is annoying but not a show-stopper.

 

Got the oil drained, replaced the filter without too much mess, did the filter back up being as careful as I could to get it all square on the seal, fire it up: instant leak.

 

re-seated the filter bowl: instant leak.

 

re-seated the filter bowl: done, wait 15-20 secs, pop goes the seal covering the engine in oil.

 

and again...

 

and again...

 

and again...

 

The last time I had it running a couple of times for 30secs or so with no issues, but I'm still not 100% sure it's not going to pop out again, but I'd had enough and didn't want to cover everything in oil again, so I'll run it up again tonight and keep my fingers crossed.

 

What a rubbish design.

 

[/moan]

 

The easiest way to change the oil filter on a BMC 1.5 is to undo and remove the two bolts holding the filter head to the cylinder block, and remove the entire unit (with Filter still attached) from the engine. The oil can then be drained into a suitable container through the holes in the filter head before removing the filter casing by removing the central bolt. The sealing ring can be easily prised out with a small screwdriver, and replaced by pushing the new one in. Wipe out the bowl, insert the new filter cartridge and bolt it all back together again. It is then ready to re-attatch to the cylinder block.

 

I was taught this method by someone who regularly serviced BMC engines in a fleet of Hire boats, and since then the horrors of trying to remove and replace the sealing ring, and re-seat the filter bowl are a thing of the past. If you have a screw in type of filter,the above method will not be appropriate, but removing the filter head may still make dismantling and re-assembly easier.

 

As for your Pump not removing the oil from the sump, most pumps have a tap at the bottom which has to be turned through 90 degrees in order to open it before pumping. Be sure to remember to turn it back after re-filling.

[Albion]

snipped

As for your Pump not removing the oil from the sump, most pumps have a tap at the bottom which has to be turned through 90 degrees in order to open it before pumping. Be sure to remember to turn it back after re-filling.

 

And some also, as well as the tap, have a knurled screwed-in bung in the tip of the nozzle that isn't immediately obvious. Don't ask how I know

Roger

[alan_fincher]

And some pumps don't have any tap in the pipe on the way down to the sump, but still struggle to prime properly, if dry.

 

If that is the case, you can often unscrew the top of the pump, and tip some oil in before you start pumping. That will give enough of a seal that it then primes OK, and continues to work as you want. (OK you have to waste a small amount of oil to do this - although I suppose once you know this you could save a bit of used oil for next time! )

[markb]

The easiest way to change the oil filter on a BMC 1.5 is to undo and remove the two bolts holding the filter head to the cylinder block, and remove the entire unit (with Filter still attached) from the engine.

 

I may do this next time, I don't think it would ensure the filter bowl was seated well enough though. I have good access and the filter bowl looked central every time but still popped out after 30secs or so of running.

 

 

And some pumps don't have any tap in the pipe on the way down to the sump, but still struggle to prime properly, if dry.

 

There are no taps of any sort so I think this is the most likely option, I'll remember that next time.

 

I'm going to be rather paranoid of this seal popping out when I take the boat out tomorrow morning...

[David Schweizer]

I may do this next time, I don't think it would ensure the filter bowl was seated well enough though. I have good access and the filter bowl looked central every time but still popped out after 30secs or so of running.

 

 

I'm going to be rather paranoid of this seal popping out when I take the boat out tomorrow morning...

Getting the bowl central is not the main problem, seating the new sealing ring into the filter head is the real challenge, as long as the bowl sits inside the flange in the filter head it should seat without any problems. The filter cartridge usually comes with two sealing rings, you should use the thicker one.

 

The other problem which can occur is if the sealing ring is not housed properly it can bulge over the edge of the housing, and tightening the bowl up, causes it to distort and stretch. If this happens, you need to try and force it back into the housing, failing that use a new ring, Or even try the old one if you still have it.

 

All this is much easier to do if the filter head has been removed from the engine.

 

Edited to add:- Sorry if this sounds patronizing, but I am assuming that you did remove the old sealing ring first, it is possible to fit the thin replacement ring on top of the old one, but it will not provide an effective seal for the filter bowl, and could "pop out" as you put it.

 

Just thought of something else:- Was the replacement filter cartridge the same length as the original one, there are several cartidges with the same diameter but slightly different lengths, and some suppliers list them as compatible, but they may not fit properly. If the cartridge is too long it will not allow the bowl to seat fully, possibly causing it to move when the engine is running.

 

The official filter is BMC 3317. which is the same as the Crossland 405 and Cooper GP223. I use the Crossland 418 which is 6mm shorter but the spring takes up the slack and it is easier to fit.

Edited January 20, 2012 by David Schweizer

[ditchcrawler]

How about changing it to a spin on unit

[bag 'o' bones]

How about changing it to a spin on unit

Beat me to it.

 

Totally agree a spin on conversion is the way forward.

[markb]

How about changing it to a spin on unit

 

if that exists, then I will almost certainly do that! Can anyone point me to somewhere to get one from?

[David Schweizer]

How about changing it to a spin on unit

 

 

Beat me to it.

 

Totally agree a spin on conversion is the way forward.

 

I would be interested to know whether either of you have a spin off oil filter on a BMC 1.5 or 1.8? and if so, are they any easier to get off than a conventional bowl and Cartridge type. On my engine there is too much pipework in the way to get any kind of wrench onto a spin off filter if it is stuck on tight, wheras there is space to wield spanners whichever way you choose to remove a Bowl type.

Edited January 20, 2012 by David Schweizer

[markb]

Getting the bowl central is not the main problem, seating the new sealing ring into the filter head is the real challenge, as long as the bowl sits inside the flange in the filter head it should seat without any problems. The filter cartridge usually comes with two sealing rings, you should use the thicker one.

 

The other problem which can occur is if the sealing ring is not housed properly it can bulge over the edge of the housing, and tightening the bowl up, causes it to distort and stretch. If this happens, you need to try and force it back into the housing, failing that use a new ring, Or even try the old one if you still have it.

 

All this is much easier to do if the filter head has been removed from the engine.

 

Edited to add:- Sorry if this sounds patronizing, but I am assuming that you did remove the old sealing ring first, it is possible to fit the thin replacement ring on top of the old one, but it will not provide an effective seal for the filter bowl, and could "pop out" as you put it.

 

Just thought of something else:- Was the replacement filter cartridge the same length as the original one, there are several cartidges with the same diameter but slightly different lengths, and some suppliers list them as compatible, but they may not fit properly. If the cartridge is too long it will not allow the bowl to seat fully, possibly causing it to move when the engine is running.

 

The official filter is BMC 3317. which is the same as the Crossland 405 and Cooper GP223. I use the Crossland 418 which is 6mm shorter but the spring takes up the slack and it is easier to fit.

 

 

Sorry, only just seen your edits.

 

No problem, we can all make easy mistakes, but no, I did remove the old seal.

 

I got a Fram CH814PL. I didn't hold them next to each other, but it seemed to fit pretty well.

 

RE. your unedited post, the filter cam with 3 seals, one was a larger diameter than the other two and was of no use to me. The other two seemed to be identical to each other and the one which I removed. But for the last attempt I used the second of the new seals wondering if I'd nipped/deformed the first one when I installed it for the first time.

 

I'll run it again tonight and hope it's all sorted.

[Speedwell]

if that exists, then I will almost certainly do that! Can anyone point me to somewhere to get one from?

I got one from AMC diesel at Longton, Preston about 20 years ago. Their phone number is in the BT online phone book, although they own the Thornycroft name nowadays.

Arthur

[ditchcrawler]

if that exists, then I will almost certainly do that! Can anyone point me to somewhere to get one from?

http://www.merlinmotorsport.co.uk/p14717/SPIN-ON-OIL-FILTER-CONVERSION-FOR-BMC-ENGINES/product_info.html

or

http://www.asap-supplies.com/marine/spin-on-conversion-kits-for-oil-filters

[Richard T]

It is even better to install a remote oil filter - we have one on our BMC 1.8. It comes as a kit with a blanking plate for the block 2 hoses and fitting for a spin on filter. This can be seen in the photo below my left foot. This makes it very easy to change the filter without getting oil everywhere.I'm not certain where to get one from but places suggested above may have one.

[ditchcrawler]

It is even better to install a remote oil filter - we have one on our BMC 1.8. It comes as a kit with a blanking plate for the block 2 hoses and fitting for a spin on filter. This can be seen in the photo below my left foot. This makes it very easy to change the filter without getting oil everywhere.I'm not certain where to get one from but places suggested above may have one.

http://www.thinkauto.com/takeoff.htm

[Pentargon]

if that exists, then I will almost certainly do that! Can anyone point me to somewhere to get one from?

 

oil filter conversions make considerable profit. http://www.flexolite.co.uk/pdf/Oil%20filter%20adaptor%20list.pdf Your engine is based on the mid60's Austin Cambridge. The filter housing of a Mini is the same as indeed are all A-series AND B-series engines. Note the B-series transfer pipe is NOT the same as the A-series. Minis changed from cartridge to spin-on in the mid 70's so it should be possible to get all the parts you want from 'Minispares' or even a breaker? The spin on filter should be from an 'automatic' as they had much larger capacity than the 'manual'. Since i retired from all that goo around 1989, maybe modern technology is now producing even better wheezes.

[...]

I have a problem. I have to do an oil and filter change on my BMC 1.5.

Some good posts on this thread and the info has been taken onboard. However the way my engine bay is and more to the point the way the engine sits in the bay there is no way i can get down to the sump nut without taking half the engine apart i dont think :/ (thinking i might be able to if i remove the oil filter?)

Would there be any other way of draining the sump ?

 

Thanks for any replies in advance

 

Ollie

[Thewatchmaker]

I have a problem. I have to do an oil and filter change on my BMC 1.5.

Some good posts on this thread and the info has been taken onboard. However the way my engine bay is and more to the point the way the engine sits in the bay there is no way i can get down to the sump nut without taking half the engine apart i dont think :/ (thinking i might be able to if i remove the oil filter?)

Would there be any other way of draining the sump ?

 

Thanks for any replies in advance

 

Ollie

 

Buy one of those pump kits that draw the oil out via the dipstick tube.

They are available from as little as £20

[Grace and Favour]

I have a problem. I have to do an oil and filter change on my BMC 1.5.

Some good posts on this thread and the info has been taken onboard. However the way my engine bay is and more to the point the way the engine sits in the bay there is no way i can get down to the sump nut without taking half the engine apart i dont think :/ (thinking i might be able to if i remove the oil filter?)

Would there be any other way of draining the sump ?

 

Thanks for any replies in advance

 

Ollie

 

Aye - - there are a number of ways - though the cheapest is to buy an hand-operated sump pump like this.

I'm sure you'll also be able to source similar but operated by an electric pump

 

One just extracts the oil (normally) through the Dipstick aperture

[...]

Thanks for the links, didnt know why i didnt think of that Well thats the way ahead for me . Once again thank you.

 

Ollie

[ditchcrawler]

I have a problem. I have to do an oil and filter change on my BMC 1.5.

Some good posts on this thread and the info has been taken onboard. However the way my engine bay is and more to the point the way the engine sits in the bay there is no way i can get down to the sump nut without taking half the engine apart i dont think :/ (thinking i might be able to if i remove the oil filter?)

Would there be any other way of draining the sump ?

 

Thanks for any replies in advance

 

Ollie

If you have never done an oil change on that boat before are you sure there is not a hand pump already fitted to draw the oil out.

[Darren72]

I too will be doing an oil change for the first time soon on my BMC 1.5. As a newbie, wheres the best place to get the filter and whats the make/model I need to ask for? Do the seals come as standard or not? how many of them are they? Is there anything I else I need to do? Is it best to do from cold or semi warm? Sorry for all the questions.

[David Schweizer]

I too will be doing an oil change for the first time soon on my BMC 1.5. As a newbie, wheres the best place to get the filter and whats the make/model I need to ask for? Do the seals come as standard or not? how many of them are they? Is there anything I else I need to do? Is it best to do from cold or semi warm? Sorry for all the questions.

The official filter is BMC 3317. which is the same as the Crossland 405 and Cooper GP223. I use the Crossland 418 which is 6mm shorter but the spring takes up the slack and it is easier to fit. should be available from any decent chandlery or Motor factor, I actually get mine from the local Agricultural Merchants.

 

See post 2 in this thread for the method I use to replace the filter (only relevant if you have the original bowl type filter).

Edited January 23, 2012 by David Schweizer

[...]

If you have never done an oil change on that boat before are you sure there is not a hand pump already fitted to draw the oil out.

 

No the engine is new(ish) to the boat, and due its first oil and service.

(Had a Barrus before)

 

Regards

 

Ollie

[roggie]

Just reading this thread as going to do my first oil & filter change on our BMC 1.5 (spin off filter). I just wondered what happened in the end. Did everyone sleep comfortably ever after?