StudioCanal takes action against YouTube copyright infringed films

[Laurence Hogg]

Studiocanal UK the British division of French owned Canal+ have taken action against YouTube for the removal of illegal uploads of their films. Amongst these were "Painted Boats" and the "The Bargee". This is welcome news as sales of these titles have fallen badly recently possibly due to these downloads being made freely available. Lichfield & Hatherton Canals Trust certainly lost a lot of sales this year as did other Waterway media sellers. British Waterways I understand are following in Studiocanal's footsteps having their titles pulled off too ie "There go the boats", "Inland Waterways" etc.

Youtube has become a hotbed of copyright infringement of late with programmes from the BBC, ITV etc freely uploaded clearly in breach of copyright. As a media producer I know too well how much time goes into production and the great costs involved, sadly with some footage held by Pathe etc prices will never allow it to be seen in its full glory but this is not an excuse for uploaders to try and circumvent costs, no one will eventually benefit from an illegally uploaded film. It simply make the odds of it getting into the public domain more unlikely.

 

http://www.studiocanal.co.uk/Home/AboutUs

Edited November 18, 2011 by Laurence Hogg

[Chris Pink]

So, the profit of the sales of painted boats goes to the production then?

 

These films are essentially free of cost and the continuance of copyright is solely to make money, not to pay for these or other films.

 

As for your statement about Pathe and the ridiculous cost of these films that mean they remain the preserve of a few privileged or as fluff on a corporate content-free promo video, it seems strange you don't see the contradiction in your words

 

The people who copy and freely distribute this stuff have my full support. Information should and will always be made freely available to all and this action is ultimately futile.

[Laurence Hogg]

So, the profit of the sales of painted boats goes to the production then?

 

These films are essentially free of cost and the continuance of copyright is solely to make money, not to pay for these or other films.

 

As for your statement about Pathe and the ridiculous cost of these films that mean they remain the preserve of a few privileged or as fluff on a corporate content-free promo video, it seems strange you don't see the contradiction in your words

 

The people who copy and freely distribute this stuff have my full support. Information should and will always be made freely available to all and this action is ultimately futile.

Chris sometimes you suprise me.

" These films are essentially free" really? Are mine free too? I somewhat think not.

The profit from any of these films goes in part to funding releasing more! Or in the case of the canal trust to their coffers,If you want to support illegal activities then thats your choice.

I can honestly tell you Pathe wanted £12,000 for 17 minutes of historic film limited to 100 dvd copies. As mad as that may be it isnt a reason to infringe copyright even if you could get to the original!

Edited November 18, 2011 by Laurence Hogg

[Québec]

@ Chris Pink...

 

I'd be interested to know where, if anywhere, you draw the line on theft?

 

Yes, technology and the internet has made a minefield out of the whole issue of copyright....but, until the law changes, you are supporting and condoning a form of theft. The fact the millions of people do it doesn't make it right or legal (a bit like speeding!).

 

If you (and maybe you do) make your living out of creating 'things', then you have a right in law to have your rights in those 'things' protected. Similarly if you own 'things', you have the right not to have those 'things' stolen...whatever they happen to be.

[station tug]

if you go onto the torrent download there is every film made by Laurence i thought you'd made enough money out of the job and were giving somthing back..didnt realise it was illegal..on the plus side you only have to listen to the intro music once

[Laurence Hogg]

if you go onto the torrent download there is every film made by Laurence i thought you'd made enough money out of the job and were giving somthing back..didnt realise it was illegal..on the plus side you only have to listen to the intro music once

Hmm odd how they have titles we have never released too. If this IS true you may regret posting it.

[station tug]

Hmm odd how they have titles we have never released too. If this IS true you may regret posting it.

ffs lighten up....and no laurence iv downloaded nothing.... ya intro music drives me nuts.. :rolleyes:

[Laurence Hogg]

ffs lighten up....and no laurence iv downloaded nothing.... ya intro music drives me nuts.. :rolleyes:

You'll be pleased to know we have stopped using it! In future the monotonous drone of a bolly will drive you nuts.

[station tug]

You'll be pleased to know we have stopped using it! In future the monotonous drone of a bolly will drive you nuts.

 

for the record...i think what ya do is great..i was on a wind up...this section of the forum is my favourite and at some point in the near future i'll have myself a propper boat rather than a noddy boat built with an electric glue gun...

[Laurie Booth]

I think they will find that the sales will drop as Youtube does work as a great advert for clips of films posted.

[station tug]

I think they will find that the sales will drop as Youtube does work as a great advert for clips of films posted.

 

 

i think ya rite..i didnt know Laurence had a web site until this post..publisity comes in all shapes n sizes

[carlt]

i think ya rite..i didnt know Laurence had a web site until this post..publisity comes in all shapes n sizes

 

Isn't Piratebay a boating website?

[Smelly]

Just think about all that money spent on legal fees when the knowledge is alive and well here...

[Robbo]

Cheers Laurence never knew about these films until you said and I shall now go over to YouTube to watch them. I have no intending on buying them but guess what - I never would have had anyhow so no sale lost. Ofcourse if you worked with YouTube you would have gained the ad revenue from me and the other viewers...

 

Thought I might stay a bit "legal" and went to the site you linked to. Okay so I can order them as DVDs but I can't legally download them and now you wonder why there on YouTube. I find music on you tube, oh look a link is there for me too buy it from iTunes. Now that was easy...

 

Copyright holders are idiots sometimes, make it easy too buy and accessible now, we are in 2011 not 1990. DVDs are dead.

Edited November 19, 2011 by Robbo

[Laurence Hogg]

Cheers Laurence never knew about these films until you said and I shall now go over to YouTube to watch them. I have no intending on buying them but guess what - I never would have had anyhow so no sale lost. Ofcourse if you worked with YouTube you would have gained the ad revenue from me and the other viewers...

 

Thought I might stay a bit "legal" and went to the site you linked to. Okay so I can order them as DVDs but I can't legally download them and now you wonder why there on YouTube. I find music on you tube, oh look a link is there for me too buy it from iTunes. Now that was easy...

 

Copyright holders are idiots sometimes, make it easy too buy and accessible now, we are in 2011 not 1990. DVDs are dead.

 

We do work with youtube and gain revenue from ads. The films originaly talked about are gone now and I do not hold rights to them. They are still for sale as proper units. As for DVD being dead, try mentioning that to "Simply Media & co" whos catalogue contains no blu ray at all just DVD, I think you need to be a bit more aware of what is going on, solid state will be next.

We use Youtube as a advert channel but find it somewhat inneffective as many customers are in the 60+ plus range.

[Robbo]

We do work with youtube and gain revenue from ads. The films originaly talked about are gone now and I do not hold rights to them. They are still for sale as proper units. As for DVD being dead, try mentioning that to "Simply Media & co" whos catalogue contains no blu ray at all just DVD, I think you need to be a bit more aware of what is going on, solid state will be next.

We use Youtube as a advert channel but find it somewhat inneffective as many customers are in the 60+ plus range.

 

Physical media is dead that's what content providers need to learn. Download and stream is the future, Netflix in the US uses more traffic than any other type of Internet traffic - it was BitTorrent before and iTunes is now the biggest music retailer. So people want content thats available to them now to watch now, make it easy for us to do that and we will pay.

 

So you say your YouTube advert channel is ineffective because most of the content is for over 60's ? This doesn't make sense why sue YouTube because of dwindling sales if your content isn't for the YouTube generation - cause if no one is watching it, does it matter if it's up there!

[Athy]

With recorded music, mechanical copyright expires after 50 years (though there are moves afoot to extend this period). So if I wish to reissue a 1961 recording in the UK I can legally do so - indeed I am working on albums of such material at the moment. Is there not a similar copyright period for films? If so, Painted Boats would certainly be in what's known in musical terms as the "Public Domain", and I think The Bargees may be too.

[Robbo]

With recorded music, mechanical copyright expires after 50 years (though there are moves afoot to extend this period). So if I wish to reissue a 1961 recording in the UK I can legally do so - indeed I am working on albums of such material at the moment. Is there not a similar copyright period for films? If so, Painted Boats would certainly be in what's known in musical terms as the "Public Domain", and I think The Bargees may be too.

 

I have a feeling I've heard 75 years, but I listen to alot of US tech podcasts so may be just US related. I know Disney got it changed (US) and now alot of stuff is now not out of copyright due to it. Then they relised all they needed to do was to trademark the mouse to make there old stuff still effectivly in copyright!

[Robbo]

Found; Copyright is 70 years for UK, 95 for US.

 

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries%27_copyright_length

[Chris Pink]

Chris sometimes you suprise me.

" These films are essentially free" really? Are mine free too? I somewhat think not.

The profit from any of these films goes in part to funding releasing more! Or in the case of the canal trust to their coffers,If you want to support illegal activities then thats your choice.

I can honestly tell you Pathe wanted £12,000 for 17 minutes of historic film limited to 100 dvd copies. As mad as that may be it isnt a reason to infringe copyright even if you could get to the original!

 

I don't believe that you honestly can't see the difference between films you produce, for which I am happy to pay, and archive film that has long paid its production costs and whatever profit and the original producers and actors receive nothing.

 

Tell me, if you will, who receives money from The Bargee and Painted Boats, once the real cost of producing the DVD and retail profit is taken off?

 

As to the effect of copyright on sales. When Photoshop first came out they made it easy to copy and gave it away. It became the number one image editing programme, in my opinion as a result of this.

 

As Robbo says this is 2011, the world of open source, you make money from your skills not by holding desperately onto information. The music world has embraced this and is thriving.

 

People I know who download music and films will buy those cds and films if they mean enough to them, the same way as ebook readers will also own the physical copy if it is an object they value. The pertinent word here is 'object' - CD, cover, artwork makes for more than the experience of watching, reading or listening.

 

IPlayer is another case in point as is terrestrial TV - if you're in the right place at the right time you can have it for free, if not you pay, where's the logic in that?

 

And to support the Pathé case, which essentially restricts the use of this material, which should be free to all, to a few corporate users, it is you who surprise me Lawrence - well actually no you don't.

 

As a matter of interest, who owns the copyright on the B-series drawings?

Edited November 19, 2011 by Chris Pink

[Robbo]

Yes, technology and the internet has made a minefield out of the whole issue of copyright....but, until the law changes, you are supporting and condoning a form of theft. The fact the millions of people do it doesn't make it right or legal (a bit like speeding!).

 

Copyright infringement isn't theft, it's copyright infringement. Millions of people copy there CDs to there iPods - your not legally allowed to do this.

[Chris Pink]

@ Chris Pink...

 

I'd be interested to know where, if anywhere, you draw the line on theft?

 

Yes, technology and the internet has made a minefield out of the whole issue of copyright....but, until the law changes, you are supporting and condoning a form of theft. The fact the millions of people do it doesn't make it right or legal (a bit like speeding!).

 

If you (and maybe you do) make your living out of creating 'things', then you have a right in law to have your rights in those 'things' protected. Similarly if you own 'things', you have the right not to have those 'things' stolen...whatever they happen to be.

 

Speeding is theft? Gosh.

 

And to be a little serious, Information is not a 'thing' - as you obviously know by enclosing it in parentheses.

 

I think you'll find in the Theft Act, there is a clause about the "intent to permanently deprive"

Edited November 19, 2011 by Chris Pink

[Laurence Hogg]

The lengths of time copyright remains is if the rights are not transferred or sold to another party, Hence the term "all rights reserved" on many films.

There is info here: http://www.bfi.org.uk/filmtvinfo/researchers/distribution/british.html

and here: http://www.ukfilmcouncil.org.uk/copyrighttheft

and here: http://www.fact-uk.org.uk/

 

The Bargee & Painted boats are part of a tranche of UK films which are released together, some 300 as I am led to believe, they include some classics like "No limit" (The TT film). So to answer the questions of where the profit goes, it goes back to cover the massive investment in the first place. There are some weak sellers in this lot and they are the ones you see bundled up and sold cheaply.

If any of you want more information on these films please get in touch with Optimum Releasing. Apart from encouraging the release of the two canal films initially I have no part in the current distribution or sales operation.

[Laurence Hogg]

Copyright infringement isn't theft, it's copyright infringement. Millions of people copy there CDs to there iPods - your not legally allowed to do this.

I think this is intellectural property related not copyright infringement and is not an offence if the media is not sold or publicly performed. you can check here: http://www.ipo.gov.uk/copy.htm

[Athy]

Copyright infringement isn't theft, .

Try telling this to, for example, a Jamaican record producer. He may vigorously disagree.