Where's Gibbo?

[David Schweizer]

That's a good point David, that does make sense as a rationale for editing a forum, the last thing you would want would be to drive people away. And I was in no way trying to defend personal attacks; I would categorise the effects of that far more strongly than 'offence'. In any case, the fact that there is no *right* not to be offended does not excuse bad manners and lack of consideration for others' feelings; there needs to be an overriding justification for that.

 

I would suggest that there is UK Equality Legislation which, in my assesment, does provide a degree of protection against being offended, albeit only for individuals who can be identified as being memners of the group of people to whom the Legislation relates.

Edited October 21, 2011 by David Schweizer

[Doorman]

Many a true word spoken in jest... it had been rumoured that a certain M. Gaddafi had booked a build slot with one Mr Hudson.

You're obviously Joshing aren't you!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Is there anything wrong in making an effort to be nice? Not upsetting people for the sake of it or to show off? When I meet boaters when I'm out and about I've honestly lost count of how many boaters have told me they are put off posting on CWDF because the members are unfriendly and rude. Do we want to be seen like that?

 

We have encountered that same attitude amongst boaters too! It's a shame really, because their additional input could make for an even better forum.

 

 

Mike

 

Has Gibbo bought a Hudson boat? Is that why he has left?

 

 

 

 

Actually a lot of German POW's settled here (Yorkshire) after the war rather than return a divided country. I have never encountered any prejudice offered against them. In fact I was married to a German girl for 13 years until her untimely death. Neither of us encountered any prejudice.

 

That must have been very sad for you.

 

I have travelled to Germany on several occasions and always found the people to be humorous

and good natured. Their work ethic and attention to detail is something to be admired.

 

Mike

Edited October 21, 2011 by Doorman

[alan_fincher]

Although I find the repetitive deriding of Hudson boats by a tiny minority of this forum rather tedious and sometimes unnecessarily rude, I am only riled when that is translated to a deriding of their owners.

 

That's not true really is it. You object to those "insulting the breed", (i.e. the boat), simply on the grounds that a number of forum members own the, even where nothing is said about the owners, just the boats.

 

Quite why some feel the need to be insulting to the breed, whilst being fully aware that a good proportion of forum members have such a boat, escapes me

 

I try (not always sucessful!) not to make clear who my riled reaction is aimed at since that could be personally insulting, and it is interesting to note who pops up assuming incorrectly my comments are aimed at them. In at least 1 case I reacted to a probably drunken and very insulting post. The Mods kindly deleted the offending post so by the time a usual suspect logged on they assumed my post was directed at them! Maybe a guilty conscience!

 

Those seem fairly weasley words, and don't really wash with me! It is not that hard to make it abundantly clear when posting who you are directing comments at. The highlighted bit would seem to say that despite what you have just said, you do like stirring it a bit! It is equally easy to go back and edit a post that has lost it's context because of some moderator intervention.

 

I'm happy to be a "usual suspect" if I am that for just saying that I don't understand the attraction, nor understand why a boat that is marketed as Josher styled isn't. If that means I am being discourteous or rude to owners, then so be it, (although many have been at length to point out that they see the boats as a creation of something stylish in their own right, not an attempt to copy anything, despite the advertising).

 

I'm sure you can find the odd post to prove I have said something rude about the owners, probably in poor attempt at humour following something like....

 

............perhaps it is the same people that need to buy an old working boat so they can install themselves at the back of a long throbbing thing and thrust their huge prows up the middle of the cut (scattering washer-joshers into the bushes) as compensation for their tiny genitalia, the only vestige of the fact that their mummys dressed them as girls until the age of 5 being their red hankies tied round the neck?

 

Frankly if you can dish out like this, even if you would say you are just attempting to be funny, then you can hardly complain if you receive something back.

 

But, if you seriously believe complaints about the snout of your boat come into the same camp as Gibbo's attempts to see how far he can push the boundaries, then you must be one seriously sensitive boat owner.

 

I've not expressed a view up until now. Personally I don't give a toss what Gibbo's technical input to the forum was. If he not only doesn't want to abide by the rules, but also deliberately wants to keep testing the boundaries, then personally I believe he should stay away permanently, unless he can learn to live within them.

[nicknorman]

 

We have encountered that same attitude amongst boaters too! It's a shame really, because their additional input could make for an even better forum.

 

Mike

 

 

Same here. How about a new zero tolerance policy of no abusive or personally insulting posts? Might have to get some more mods though! So much is posted aimed at another person that would not be said face to face. Why is this accepted?

[Chertsey]

What, in reality, has happened, is not a misconception of the term 'Political Correctness' or for that matter 'Health & Safety', but simply an exploitation of their true meaning. Certain factions have taken both terms and used them to their advantage.

 

It's the fools who pander to these groups that cause such outrage.

 

Mike

Absolute nonsense. I'm pretty sure there were far more (albeit different) things that could not be talked about before the term 'political correctness' was even invented. PC does have a very specific meaning and was developed in a specific context. I bet that if you did a statistical analysis of the occasions on which the term is used, over 99% of those would be by those using it as a term of derision. Those of us who wish to argue for good manners, decent behaviour and consideration of others have no need of a whole new set of jargon with which to do so.

 

And how could anyone opject to the true meaning of health and safety, as opposed to its use as an excuse for all manner of unrelated things?

 

I would suggest that there is UK Equality Legislation which, in my assesment, does provide a degree of protection against being offended, albeit only for individuals who can be identified as being memners of the group of people to whom the Legislation relates.

Yes, and I have great concerns about that, given that offence is such a subjective and grey area. My view is that the use of the law should be limited to protecting people from actual harm.

[NB Willawaw]

This thread has actually persuaded me to go boating.

 

Why is it in General Boating instead of the VP ?

[Chertsey]

Same here. How about a new zero tolerance policy of no abusive or personally insulting posts? Might have to get some more mods though! So much is posted aimed at another person that would not be said face to face. Why is this accepted?

Because a lot of it is between friends, and results in mutual amusement, which might not be immediately apparent to an outsider.

I would far rather have people insulting me, on the forum, than making jokes about domestic violence or derogatory comments about immigrants, for example.

[Nine of Hearts]

That's not true really is it. You object to those "insulting the breed", (i.e. the boat), simply on the grounds that a number of forum members own the, even where nothing is said about the owners, just the boats.

 

With respect, aren't those weasely words? How can you insult a type of boat without, by necessary implication, insulting the owners? You are impugning their judgement, if nothing else.

 

And the diatribe you re-posted as an example of "dishing it out" was actually an example of what a Hudson owner could have said

in reply. You have altered the context to support your point when the real context was contradicting it.

[nicknorman]

Hi Alan

 

It's getting a bit "you said... I said..." but just to summarise, I think it is perfectly reasonable for you to dislike Hudson styling. However you do on occasion border in being unnecessarily rude about it. I doubt you would make such comments face to face to an owner, but presumably you feel it is OK to do so from the safety of the forum. I don't think you have ever been openly derisive of owners as a group, though you have come close.

 

Regarding your last quote of mine, it interesting that the first time you quoted it, you did so in full. This time, you have selectively quoted it missing out the last sentance which made it quite clear that it was satirical and a made-up ridiculous rant in the vein of the abusive rant I was responding to, which was one of those that the mods deleted. By slectively quoting you have made it seem more insulting than it was Perhaps you were a journalist in a former life?

 

You seemed to think it was aimed at you. I suppose I could have removed it but I received a number of plaudits by PM about it and thought it should stay because a number of people (including me!) thought it was funny in its full context. I am sorry if you found it hurtful, but I suppose like bow shapes, humour is in the eye of the beholder.

 

Regarding your last but one point, I didn't see the joke but as I have mentioned before, I see a difference between personal insult and bullying, versus an inappropriate joke that is not aimed at anyone in particular.

[Doorman]

Absolute nonsense. I'm pretty sure there were far more (albeit different) things that could not be talked about before the term 'political correctness' was even invented. PC does have a very specific meaning and was developed in a specific context. I bet that if you did a statistical analysis of the occasions on which the term is used, over 99% of those would be by those using it as a term of derision. Those of us who wish to argue for good manners, decent behaviour and consideration of others have no need of a whole new set of jargon with which to do so.

 

And how could anyone opject to the true meaning of health and safety, as opposed to its use as an excuse for all manner of unrelated things?

 

I don't opject to the true meaning of Health & Safety, especially as I was a safety officer whilst in industry. It is the people who take it completely out of context that I object to, as in the same sense with the PC Brigade.

 

You seem to ignore the fact that there are people who abuse both terms and seek to either gain financially, or morally from doing so. Was it not so long ago that New Labour tried to discourage people in this country from flying the Union Jack, just in case it upset certain minority groups. Were we not told to re-name Christmas as 'Winter Holiday' for the very same reasons. This is Political Correctness taken completely out of context and that is my whole point.

 

Mike

Edited October 21, 2011 by Doorman

[nicknorman]

Absolute nonsense. .

A great example of a discourteous post! Mike made a well reasoned and balanced post ( with which I and many others agree) and you dismissed it by ridiculing it, rather than presenting a well reasoned counter argument. Out of interest, what subject do you lecture in and do you run your seminars in a similar way?

[Evo]

Will you lot give up with this PC Health and Safety crap please...its boring, and no one will win.

 

Lets get on with talking about someone behind his back - the ultra interesting 'Wheres Gibbo' dilema.

[Nine of Hearts]

Lets get on with talking about someone behind his back - the ultra interesting 'Wheres Gibbo' dilema.

 

Good point. I've checked all my pockets. Has anyone looked down the back of the sofa?

[carlt]

Was it not so long ago that New Labour tried to discourage people in this country from flying the Union Jack, just in case it upset certain minority groups.

No it was actually Jack Straw who suggested that restrictions on the flying of the Union Jack should be relaxed. Until then it was only flown on "Flag Days" (Google "The Governance of Britain" for more heavy reading).

Were we not told to re-name Christmas as 'Winter Holiday' for the very same reasons.

No. This was a Daily Mail article that quickly led to the usual hysteria against all religions except the Middle Eastern one we claim as our own.

 

What actually happened was that some fool of an LGO (Birmingham Council, iirc) was backed into a corner by a journalist of superior intellect and was tricked into a stupid response to a "What if?" scenario.

 

In the usual Local Government way, rather than say "You spoke to an idiot, please ignore him" the Council bosses tried to wriggle their way out of it, just digging themselves an ever deeper hole thus giving the Daily Mail all the ammo it needed for a front page assault.

 

"Wintermas"/"Winter Holiday" and all the other names for a secular holiday have never happened.

 

What does happen, happily, is that we can join in with all sorts of colourful foreign religious japes such as Christmas, Diwali etc. Funny thing is we never seem to take any notice of our good old home grown British superstitions.

 

 

You're absolutely right. The whole of your post is Political Correctness taken completely out of context.

 

A good point well made.

Edited October 21, 2011 by carlt

[Evo]

Has anybody actually seen him since he left, or has his boat mysteriously slinked off in the middle of the night to some lonely remote part of the cut. Is he now pondering his greatest mistake from the middle of a reed bed. Someone must be emailing him..???

 

Its bloody typical aint it. I must of been the last person on here to buy an SG and the barsteward decides to do a disappearing act on me before I can hammer him with intelligent questions.

[Timleech]

 

 

Its bloody typical aint it. I must of been the last person on here to buy an SG and the barsteward decides to do a disappearing act on me before I can hammer him with intelligent questions.

 

Maybe there's a clue there, he seemed to be contriving an excuse to leave :D

 

Tim

Edited October 21, 2011 by Timleech

[Evo]

I reckon I'd just got him twisted round my little finger, before you load of berks upset him. He hadn't screamed any insults at me for ages...!!

 

Have to say, I enjoyed his posts.

 

I rarely visit the VP as I thought it would be like another forum i frequent where they have a sub forum called "The back Yard" You have to be signed in and you are warned before you enter of its horrendous content...it is very very bad and not my cup of tea. I guess I'm too old to be impressed by the shock treatment joke/video. I dont find them funny anymore. Whereas a well worded cutting put-down from the keyboard sword finger of Mr. Gibson used to get me rolling....even when directed at me....A shame

[David Schweizer]

I would suggest that there is UK Equality Legislation which, in my assesment, does provide a degree of protection against being offended, albeit only for individuals who can be identified as being memners of the group of people to whom the Legislation relates.

Yes, and I have great concerns about that, given that offence is such a subjective and grey area. My view is that the use of the law should be limited to protecting people from actual harm.

That surely depends upon one's interpretation of "harm". Would you consider emotional or psychological harm to be relevant? and if so how does someone, who cannot personally claim to have been harmed by offensive comments, neccesasarily empathize with the feelings the offended person?

[cotswoldsman]

I am amazed 13 pages so far and no one has come up with the answer to "Where's Gibbo" well the answer is Middlewich. Do I get a prize?

[nicknorman]

I am amazed 13 pages so far and no one has come up with the answer to "Where's Gibbo" well the answer is Middlewich. Do I get a prize?

No, because his boat is moored on the Llangollen!

[Guest wanted]

What, in reality, has happened, is not a misconception of the term 'Political Correctness' or for that matter 'Health & Safety', but simply an exploitation of their true meaning. Certain factions have taken both terms and used them to their advantage.

 

It's the fools who pander to these groups that cause such outrage.

 

Mike

 

I don't buy that, as Chertsy has said, it's rare for somebodey who buy's into the ideals of political correctness to even use the term vocally, in my experiance it usually comes from the mouths of people trying to excuse themselves.

 

The case in question is prime example: Unessasry rape and domestic violence 'joke' told on a forum. people complain. moderator removes post. OP cries that he can no longer stand to be around a bunch of PC girlies.

 

I doubt that within any of the complaints there was the line 'please remove this post as it is not politically correct'

 

So, actually if the term didn't exsist that would be cool, the sentiment would continue.

[Nine of Hearts]

I don't buy that, as Chertsy has said, it's rare for somebodey who buy's into the ideals of political correctness to even use the term vocally, in my experiance it usually comes from the mouths of people trying to excuse themselves.

 

The case in question is prime example: Unessasry rape and domestic violence 'joke' told on a forum. people complain. moderator removes post. OP cries that he can no longer stand to be around a bunch of PC girlies.

 

I doubt that within any of the complaints there was the line 'please remove this post as it is not politically correct'

 

So, actually if the term didn't exsist that would be cool, the sentiment would continue.

 

I'm guessing here, so apologies if I'm wrong, but I imagine that your white-knight sensitivity to domestic violence sufferers feelings isn't as a result of personal experience? You see, being told what I can and cannot say about domestic violence I find more unsettling than someone making light of it. My past life involved a lot of being told that I was a bad person for using certain words, or saying certain things. It seems in your last post that even the term "political correctness" has now been added to the list whereby we can automatically label someone as evil and ostracise them for it's use. Personally, I think that racism has diminished because peoples' attitudes have changed through education and experience, not because some controlling thought police outlawed the "n" word.

[cotswoldsman]

No, because his boat is moored on the Llangollen!

 

Ah but is he on his boat or in Middlewich as his profile says. Do you have proof?

[nicknorman]

Ah but is he on his boat or in Middlewich as his profile says. Do you have proof?

Oh all right then! But my profile says Aberdeen whereas in reality I am just passing under bridge 56 on the T&M approaching Rugeley.

[Guest wanted]

I'm guessing here, so apologies if I'm wrong, but I imagine that your white-knight sensitivity to domestic violence sufferers feelings isn't as a result of personal experience? You see, being told what I can and cannot say about domestic violence I find more unsettling than someone making light of it. My past life involved a lot of being told that I was a bad person for using certain words, or saying certain things. It seems in your last post that even the term "political correctness" has now been added to the list whereby we can automatically label someone as evil and ostracise them for it's use. Personally, I think that racism has diminished because peoples' attitudes have changed through education and experience, not because some controlling thought police outlawed the "n" word.

 

Interesting, however I don't believe that you need to experiance things personally to see the harm, but I work everyday with people who do experiance domestic violence - yesterday a 14 year old turned up with bruises to her arms a legs. She probably needed a bit of sensitivity.

 

I also don't feel as if I have said that people shouldn't say things, (or at least meant it ) I have no interest in censoring, just holding people accountable for the things they say that I recognise as offensive. I don't think that using the term political correctness gone mad as a reason dosen't hold up for me.