No Horn & No Wire?

[Richard10002]

Hi,

 

Our boat has a button for a horn on the throttle post, but there is no horn, and I can't find the wire exiting somewhere around the cratch. There is evidence that a horn was fitted at some time.

 

Without running a cable from stern to bow, is there likely to be an existing circuit that we could piggy back off, as a short term solution?

 

I was thinking the headlamp circuit..... I think this would need a switch at the headlamp end so that it wasn't shining permanently, and I guess the headlamp would dim when we used the horn.

 

Is there likely to be another circuit we could use?

 

Many Thanks

 

Richard

[steelaway]

Hi,

 

Our boat has a button for a horn on the throttle post, but there is no horn, and I can't find the wire exiting somewhere around the cratch. There is evidence that a horn was fitted at some time.

 

Without running a cable from stern to bow, is there likely to be an existing circuit that we could piggy back off, as a short term solution?

 

I was thinking the headlamp circuit..... I think this would need a switch at the headlamp end so that it wasn't shining permanently, and I guess the headlamp would dim when we used the horn.

 

Is there likely to be another circuit we could use?

 

Many Thanks

 

Richard

 

You could piggy back of the tunnel light. so when you flash the light the horn will sound.

 

Alex

 

 

[Chalky]

Provided that you've got a 2 wire system then there's a way you can run the two down the same wire. You'll need a different switch that has a centre off and 2 other positions - a car window lift switch is the sort of thing you need, but with a latching position for the light. What you need to do is wire it so the centre is off, the power flows 1 way in one on state and the other way in the other on state (reverses the power when changed over). At the other end you need to wire the loads onto the 2 wires, but with diodes in the circuit. The idea is that when the power flows one way one of the diodes conducts and the circuit is powered. When it swaps over the other conducts. You'll need to ensure the diodes are big enough to take the current.

 

There are other ways - 1 wire CAN etc, but this is the quickest bodge. Ideally you need to add the extra wires, but this will work. You'll loose some power in the diodes and they'll need to be rated to take the power.

[blackrose]

I couldn't get my horn to work properly because of undersized cabling. I've heard this is quite a common problem because some builders don't factor in voltage drops over long cable lengths properly. I know someone will start screaming that I can't steer my boat, but I took the power feed for the horn from my bow thruster batteries and used a relay on the original (thin) cable so that I could still operate the horn from the stern.

[Chertsey]

No wires necessary.

[Bob18]

Strangely I was heading in Chertsey's direction.

 

 

I do recall one "incident" when out with some friends a few years back. We ventured into the Netherton Tunnel just as their lad started his cornet practice. His chosen piece was "Ride of the Valkyries", and his chosen location for said practice was in sitting in the well deck - no other boaters ventured in while he was going at full blast...

[Guest]

Get a bulb horn from the bike shop.

 

Alternatively put an electric horn near the back so that you don't need a long cable.

 

Edited to add: Why don't horns work on many NB's? I have been asked by numerous steerers to enter tunnels first because their horn doesn't work.

Edited September 25, 2011 by Guest

[Guest]

Get a bulb horn from the bike shop.

 

Alternatively put an electric horn near the back so that you don't need a long cable.

 

Edited to add: Why don't horns work on many NB's? I have been asked by numerous steerers to enter tunnels first because their horn doesn't work.

 

I would say as above it's because of a mis-calc of the wire required for the long cable run resulting in voltage drop - combined with the fact that often standard 12V car horns are used but in a more exposed position that you get under a nice warm car bonnet meaning they suffer from the elements more.

[jelunga]

I have a bugle adjacent to the steering position. Used when in tunnels and when the electric one fails.

 

Strangely I was heading in Chertsey's direction.

 

 

I do recall one "incident" when out with some friends a few years back. We ventured into the Netherton Tunnel just as their lad started his cornet practice. His chosen piece was "Ride of the Valkyries", and his chosen location for said practice was in sitting in the well deck - no other boaters ventured in while he was going at full blast...

[Chalky]

I would say as above it's because of a mis-calc of the wire required for the long cable run resulting in voltage drop - combined with the fact that often standard 12V car horns are used but in a more exposed position that you get under a nice warm car bonnet meaning they suffer from the elements more.

 

OEM grade horns will work in an exposed location but many boat builders use after market parts. Main differences are quality of connectors, materials in general and also how they're mounted (so they don't fill with water). My horns (Hi & Lo tone) run off cable designed to cope with 10A draw and a 90' round trip. They're also relay switched - no problems after 8 years. I mounted mine in the well so they're sheltered by the gunwale.

[Higgs]

My boat came with the whole cratch assembly and horn and spot light were mounted on the front bulkhead. They are now both mounted on the front of the cratch.

 

I can't understand why people have horns fitted in the front well-deck area, if it is also the place that people sit to enjoy the cruise. You don't sit in a car with the horn by your ears. ???

[Guest]

My boat came with the whole cratch assembly and horn and spot light were mounted on the front bulkhead. They are now both mounted on the front of the cratch.

 

I can't understand why people have horns fitted in the front well-deck area, if it is also the place that people sit to enjoy the cruise. You don't sit in a car with the horn by your ears. ???

I don't think it is a bad idea putting the horn in the well deck. It will waken them up when there is locking to be done.

[Higgs]

I don't think it is a bad idea putting the horn in the well deck. It will waken them up when there is locking to be done.

 

 

The only thing you'll find in the well-deck is their skins, because they'd have jumped out of them.

[Chalky]

I put mine in the well deck for the same reason that you find horns hidden behind radiator grills and bumpers on cars. It protects them from the elements and means that they'll work when you need them. Oh and it also wakes the crew up!

[Higgs]

I put mine in the well deck for the same reason that you find horns hidden behind radiator grills and bumpers on cars. It protects them from the elements and means that they'll work when you need them. Oh and it also wakes the crew up!

 

Aye aye, Capt'n Bligh.

Edited September 25, 2011 by Higgs

[nicknorman]

You could piggy back of the tunnel light. so when you flash the light the horn will sound.

 

Alex

I think you would then need a good set of ear defenders for use in tunnels!

 

Provided that you've got a 2 wire system then there's a way you can run the two down the same wire. You'll need a different switch that has a centre off and 2 other positions - a car window lift switch is the sort of thing you need, but with a latching position for the light. What you need to do is wire it so the centre is off, the power flows 1 way in one on state and the other way in the other on state (reverses the power when changed over). At the other end you need to wire the loads onto the 2 wires, but with diodes in the circuit. The idea is that when the power flows one way one of the diodes conducts and the circuit is powered. When it swaps over the other conducts. You'll need to ensure the diodes are big enough to take the current.

 

There are other ways - 1 wire CAN etc, but this is the quickest bodge. Ideally you need to add the extra wires, but this will work. You'll loose some power in the diodes and they'll need to be rated to take the power.

That would work but you would need a doulbe pole changeover switch (centre off) with break before make. OP would probably appreciate a circuit diagram and since it was your idea...

[casper ghost]

I have a bugle adjacent to the steering position. Used when in tunnels and when the electric one fails.

I too have a bugle. I've never had a "proper" electric horn, just don't see the need for one. I've only ever used the bugle to call someone out from inside, usually to make a cuppa...

Casp'

[Richard10002]

I'll probably get a bugle as the short term solution. I'm hoping i'll find some wires looking for a home while clearing out various lockers.

 

Ive seen horns with a couple of tubes for around £70, (presumably these are 2 tone and loud), but I've also seen a simple looking horn for £16 - is the cheap one a false economy, or are the expensive ones a bit flash. I've also seen both types on boats mored nearby.

 

Thanks for the help so far.

 

BTW - I can't see me getting involved with diodes and complicated switches, so no need for a diagram - although others might find it useful and/or interesting.

 

Richard

[steelaway]

I think you would then need a good set of ear defenders for use in tunnels!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah - whotever you dont go through any tunnels until its wired properly

[Bob18]

Horns should be kept "KISS".

Simple switch (push button), simple wiring, simple horn.

Make sure the outside connectors are of good quality and are properly protected against the weather.

Make sure the cabling is adequately sized, too small and the horn will "croak".

 

 

Air horns, while nice to look at (?) and ***** loud, are a bit of over kill, so a moderately priced electric horn is quite adequate.

[Richard10002]

Yeah - whotever you dont go through any tunnels until its wired properly

 

Are you saying that we must have a working electric horn to go through a tunnel, (we're doing the whole Trent & Mersey from Barton to Preston Brook in a couple of weeks) ?

 

Or would it be OK to have a lung powered one?

 

Serious question - I genuinely don't know (in my offshore days, it was fine to use a lung powered horn as a foghorn).

 

Many Thanks

 

Richard

[Chertsey]

Of course it is. The Acme signal horn that I posted earlier is excellent. That's our permanent horn of choice - on the principle of keeping it simple.

 

Ed to clarify - of course a lung powered one is ok. Likely to be louder in fact!

Edited September 26, 2011 by Chertsey

[alan_fincher]

And these (or similar) are also a very viable permanent alternative to something that needs wiring in.......

 

 

Louder than most electric horns though, and tend to command fairly high prices,,,,,

 

EDITED to add......

 

You can see the back of our more compact version here......

 

Edited September 26, 2011 by alan_fincher

[Guest]

Are you saying that we must have a working electric horn to go through a tunnel, (we're doing the whole Trent & Mersey from Barton to Preston Brook in a couple of weeks) ?

 

Or would it be OK to have a lung powered one?

 

Serious question - I genuinely don't know (in my offshore days, it was fine to use a lung powered horn as a foghorn).

 

Many Thanks

 

Richard

IIRC even a whistle is acceptable.

[Chertsey]

IIRC even a whistle is acceptable.

We also have an Acme 'Metropolitan' (police?) whistle that belonged to PB's mother. We use this for drawing each other's attention. It too is very effective!

Edited September 26, 2011 by Chertsey