Traditional Engine Controls

[Geoffrey Hammond]

My boat, Strumble, is nearing completion. It is based upon just about the last 70ft hull that Barry Hawkins built.

 

It has a Lister JP3 with traditional controls.

 

The engine had been fitted and set up by Barry Hawkins before I bought it.

 

My concern is that the engine moves from idle to full with barely half a turn of the speedwheel; in the past, I had always appreciated the sensitivity which many turns of the speedwheel brought with them.

 

My qustion is simple; what pictures of the fittings should I post in order for a member of the forum to inform me whether I can alter the set up at a reasonable oost - to allow me have the pleasure of winding the speedwheel.

 

Many thanks.

[David Mack]

Presumably the speedwheel is attached to a rod which runs just below the back cabin ceiling and into the engine room. From there there will be some sort of linkage down to the engine, which may involve gears, screw threads and levers. That linkage is what we need to see. Also the detail at the engine end.

 

Is this a marine or industrial JP? They may have different speed control arrangements.

[sebrof]

Presumably the speedwheel is attached to a rod which runs just below the back cabin ceiling and into the engine room. From there there will be some sort of linkage down to the engine, which may involve gears, screw threads and levers. That linkage is what we need to see. Also the detail at the engine end.

 

Is this a marine or industrial JP? They may have different speed control arrangements.

 

My JP3 is controlled by a wire cable, and an interesting pulley arrangement.

 

Presumably somewhere in the OP's system is a lever, and if so he simply needs to move the attachment point (where the cable/rod meets the lever) further from the fulcrum.

[The Pipe]

While 1/2 a turn may be a tad less anything past 2 is a waste how far do you press your throttle pedal on your car? You can control that with not too much movement diesel governors are not that sensitive especially JP's.

Also remember it is also your only means of stopping as well, if you have too many turns your only choice is to go straight through the box for reverse PRM's are built for it but not all the time. Old Blackstones do not like it!

[Chris Pink]

 

 

My qustion is simple; what pictures of the fittings should I post in order for a member of the forum to inform me whether I can alter the set up at a reasonable oost - to allow me have the pleasure of winding the speedwheel.

 

Many thanks.

To answer your question; you need to post a picture of the engine room end of the speedwheel extension bar, taken abeam showing the linkage that goes from the speedwheel bar to another bar (?) that goes to the engine.

Edited September 15, 2011 by Chris Pink

[The Bagdad Boatman (waits)]

Look at the linkage and think fulcrum. where on the system can you find more movement.

[Geoffrey Hammond]

To answer your question; you need to post a picture of the engine room end of the speedwheel extension bar, taken abeam showing the linkage that goes from the speedwheel bar to another bar (?) that goes to the engine.

 

These, I hope, are pictures which will help others to answer my question:

 

 

 

Many thanks.

[Timleech]

These, I hope, are pictures which will help others to answer my question:

 

 

Many thanks.

 

If you move the fixing of the ball joint towards the pivot bolt, it'll reduce the amount of throttle opening per turn of the speed wheel.

It looks as though half the distance would be perfectly feasible.

 

Tim

[sebrof]

If you move the fixing of the ball joint towards the pivot bolt, it'll reduce the amount of throttle opening per turn of the speed wheel.

It looks as though half the distance would be perfectly feasible.

 

Tim

 

If you drill several holes, you'll be able to test a few variations and find one that's ideal.

 

BTW, where does one find a speedwheel these days? I have a nasty throttle which keeps giving me trouble, and a speedwheel would be a great improvement.

[Chris Pink]

If you drill several holes, you'll be able to test a few variations and find one that's ideal.

 

BTW, where does one find a speedwheel these days? I have a nasty throttle which keeps giving me trouble, and a speedwheel would be a great improvement.

 

Tony Redshaw makes them (almost certainly made the one in the picture). I think he makes the wheels too.

 

http://www.vintagediesels.co.uk/products.html

Edited September 24, 2011 by Chris Pink

[sebrof]

Tony Redshaw makes them (almost certainly made the one in the picture). I think he makes the wheels too.

 

http://www.vintagediesels.co.uk/products.html

 

Pinko, you're a star.

 

Many thanks.

[David Mack]

BTW, where does one find a speedwheel these days? I have a nasty throttle which keeps giving me trouble, and a speedwheel would be a great improvement.

 

Here (bottom of the page) or here or here?

[sebrof]

Here (bottom of the page) or here or here?

 

Thanks, David.

[by'eck]

The suggestions so far seem to tackle the problem from the control wheel end. I think you need to look at the linkage on the engine. There is usually a long spring which reacts against the governor springs increasing the movement required for a particular throttle setting.

 

Although not completely original the throttle linkage on this JP2 better explains what I am talking about.

 

 

Adding or adjusting existing spring should solve your problem although you will probably need to experiment with lengths/tension.

[sharpness]

Seing this post reminded me about a bit I dug out of the scrap box at work a while ago as I thought it might be OK for the throttle control on a traditional engine which somehow I think I will never have.

The centre threaded bit is a thread within a thread so that for each rotation I presume you get the sum of the pitches of the threads as a linear movement.

Goodness only knows what it was meant for, any good to anyone?

 

Steve

[Timleech]

Seing this post reminded me about a bit I dug out of the scrap box at work a while ago as I thought it might be OK for the throttle control on a traditional engine which somehow I think I will never have.

The centre threaded bit is a thread within a thread so that for each rotation I presume you get the sum of the pitches of the threads as a linear movement.

Goodness only knows what it was meant for, any good to anyone?

 

Steve

 

Window stay? Operated with a hook on a pole, for high windows?

 

Tim

[sharpness]

Thought of that one Tim but cant see how it would actually work for that.

 

Steve

[WotEver]

Window stay? Operated with a hook on a pole, for high windows?

 

Tim

That's exactly what it looks like to me. Window hinged at the bottom and the mechanism opening and closing it as wound.

 

Tony

[sharpness]

That's exactly what it looks like to me. Window hinged at the bottom and the mechanism opening and closing it as wound.

 

Tony

I looked at it from that angle, fanlight window, hinged at the bottom, black bit fitted on the top edge of the window, brass bracket on the frame, but it simply doesnt work that way round, the thread fouls on the bracket.

Perhaps thats why it was in the scrap box!!!

 

Steve

[WotEver]

... black bit fitted on the top edge of the window, brass bracket on the frame...

Tother way round, sir

 

Black bit on the frame below the window, brass bit on the window.

 

Tony

[David Mack]

I looked at it from that angle, fanlight window, hinged at the bottom, black bit fitted on the top edge of the window, brass bracket on the frame, but it simply doesnt work that way round, the thread fouls on the bracket.

Perhaps thats why it was in the scrap box!!!

 

Sylight, at fairly shallow angle to horizontal, hinged at uphill end. Black plate fitted to 'side' face of fixed frame, brass end fitted to inside face of skylight, loop facing down for attachment of window pole.

 

A bit like this one (except that fits to the bottom face of the frame)

 

 

David

[LEO]

Hi,

 

Get a screw type car jack and cut off all the bits you don't want and that gives you about 10" to play about with, you can then adjust the engine speed with as many turns as you want.

 

Hope that helps.

 

Leo.

[sebrof]

Simpler to drill a hole in the lever to which the spring is attached.

 

A hole further from the fulcrum will necessitate a greater movement of the cable, and more turns of the speedwheel.

Edited September 28, 2011 by sebrof

[Chris Pink]

Simpler to drill a hole in the lever to which the spring is attached.

 

A hole further from the fulcrum will necessitate a greater movement of the cable, and more turns of the speedwheel.

 

It's easier in the linkage as post #8, which i think you'll find is Mr Redshaw's intention for adjustment of sensitivity.

Edited September 28, 2011 by Chris Pink

[sharpness]

Tother way round, sir

 

Black bit on the frame below the window, brass bit on the window.

 

Tony

 

Not sure but I think I've got it now, thanks for that.

 

Steve