PRM 150 gearbox noise

[RLWP]

Wake up Richard, I made that suggestion in post No.5.

 

Mind you, no one responded or agreed, so thanks for that!

 

Yes, that's why I brought it up again. Mind you, ours was so noisy when it failed that I would never have concluded it was the gearbox. A gang of chainsaw wielding lunatics dismantling the boat from the engine bay perhaps...

 

Richard

[David Schweizer]

Yes, that's why I brought it up again. Mind you, ours was so noisy when it failed that I would never have concluded it was the gearbox. A gang of chainsaw wielding lunatics dismantling the boat from the engine bay perhaps...

 

Richard

The (compartatively new) Plate on our engine knocks quite badly for the first few minutes when everything is cold, but then it is OK all day, The previous plate rattled and clunked all the time at low speeds, but continued to work OK. When Jonathon Hewitt took the gearbox off, the centre of the plate fell out.

[craigx]

Good, so it's not the oil then. What about the possibility that it is the drive plate? Which end of the gearbox is loudest and how loud is it?

 

Richard

I have not listened with my stick to either end of the gearbox - will do next time I am on the boat. Would the drive plate give a gear whine or a rattle.

[Chalky]

I believe that you can get suction tools to remove oil which would be a good idea, perhaps i should get one if anyone can suggest where they can be purchased. But it will still be anothe piece of kit that will hang around the boat hardly ever being used.

 

I've got one of these that I use on the boat gearbox and the gearbox/overdrive and back axle on the MG.

 

http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/product/details/cgg500-500cc-oil-suction-gun/path/lubrication-fuel-transfer-equipment

 

Fairly cheap at about £8

[blackrose]

That's surely not right is it ?

 

The oil in no way actually provides the drive between engine and prop, does it ?

 

You can still run a PRM hydraulic box in ahead gear in an emergency, even if the hydraulics are knackered.......

 

Well, that's the way the PRM bloke explained it to me with his cut-away gearbox at Crick. Perhaps I've overstated it, but the oil is certainly doing more than just lubricating gears.

 

My understanding is that if you want to run a PRM gearbox in an emergency you have to lock the gears which presumably means it isn't using the hydraulics.

 

I think the problem with that is that you have to unlock it at the gearbox to take it out of gear! Probably not something to be done unless you're on a boat in open water.

Edited July 1, 2011 by blackrose

[David Schweizer]

I have not listened with my stick to either end of the gearbox - will do next time I am on the boat. Would the drive plate give a gear whine or a rattle.

Drive plates usually rattle or knock, the rattle tends to be in older plates that are simply wearing out, there are several causes but basicly bits are beguinning to get loose, the rattle is annoying rather than unbearable, The knocking can be quite alarming, and tends to occur either when the engine is cold, or at low speeds, I am not completely sure what causes it ( my plate does it) but increasing engine revs usually gets rid of it.

 

I have never had whining so I cannot make any observatuiions about that type of noise.

Edited July 1, 2011 by David Schweizer

[RLWP]

I've got one of these that I use on the boat gearbox and the gearbox/overdrive and back axle on the MG.

 

http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/product/details/cgg500-500cc-oil-suction-gun/path/lubrication-fuel-transfer-equipment

 

Fairly cheap at about £8

 

Would you like another MG back axle or two?

 

Richard

[craigx]

Drive plates usually rattle or knock, the rattle tends to be in older plates that are simply wearing out, there are several causes but basicly bits are beguinning to get loose, the rattle is annoying rather than unbearable, The knocking can be quite alarming, and tends to occur either when the engine is cold, or at low speeds, I am not completely sure what causes it ( my plate does it) but increasing engine revs usually gets rid of it.

 

I have never had whining so I cannot make any observatuiions about that type of noise.

My noise is definitely a whine which steadily increases with engine revs making me suspect bearings or worn gears. I don't understand why, once in a blue moon, the noise disappears. Perhaps its related to the quantity of alcohol consumed the night before.

[David Schweizer]

My noise is definitely a whine which steadily increases with engine revs making me suspect bearings or worn gears. I don't understand why, once in a blue moon, the noise disappears. Perhaps its related to the quantity of alcohol consumed the night before.

It doesn't sound like the drive plate, have you tried speaking to the PRM technical advice people, they are very helpful.

[RLWP]

To add to David's advice (we both seem to be thinking the same way):

 

PRM Marine Ltd

Barlow Road

Aldermans Green Industrial Estate

Coventry

England

CV2 2LD

 

Tel : +44 (0) 24 7661 7141 Fax : +44 (0) 24 7661 1845

 

Email: mail@prm-marine.com

 

Office hours:

8:30am to 4:30pm Monday - Thursday

8:30am to 1:00pm Friday

 

From the PRM Newage website

 

And they are indeed very helpful

 

Richard

Edited July 2, 2011 by RLWP

[David Schweizer]

To add to David's advice (we both seem to be thinking the same way):

 

 

 

From the PRM Newage website

 

And they are indeed very helpful

 

Richard

I know it is a bit technical but PRM Marine are an independant company once again, and not part of the Newage Group any more, which I think went into receivership. I know that if you Google for PRM Newage you still get results but clicking on them will take you to PRM Marine.

Edited July 2, 2011 by David Schweizer

[RLWP]

I know it is a bit technical but PRM Marine are an independant company once again, and not part of the Newage Group any more, which I think went into receivership. I know that if you Google for PRM Newage you still get results but clicking on them will take you to PRM Marine.

 

You are, of course correct, so I've linked to the Marine site rather than the holding page for both

 

Richard

[David Schweizer]

You are, of course correct, so I've linked to the Marine site rather than the holding page for both

 

Richard

I am rather pleased that PRM managed to hold out and become independant when Newarge failed. The original Company was founded by one of the most innovative pre-war Auto Engineers Percy Riley, when he was ousted from the Nuffield Organization in the I950's because he could not agree with their downgrading of Classic marques like the Riley. Look what happened to them.

 

P.S. You may have noticed that I am a great fan of pre Nuffield Rileys even though I cannot afford to own one.

[craigx]

It doesn't sound like the drive plate, have you tried speaking to the PRM technical advice people, they are very helpful.

Thanks very much - I shall give them a call.

[RLWP]

<snip>

 

Riley. Look what happened to them.

 

<snip>

 

They ended up being owned by BMW!

 

Richard

[David Schweizer]

They ended up being owned by BMW!

 

Richard

Interestingkly one of the descendants of the Riley family is a director of BMW, he recently managed to save a perfectly good riley RME from being broken up under the Government's scrappage scheme, although it has to be said that the initial action to save it was by the BMW salesman who was appalled when the Riley car was submitted for scrappage as part of the deposit for a new Mini.

Edited July 2, 2011 by David Schweizer

[Mrs Tawny Owl]

Interestingkly one of the descendants of the Riley family is a director of BMW, he recently managed to save a perfectly good riley RME from being broken up under the Government's scrappage scheme, although it has to be said that the initial action to save it was by the BMW salesman who was appalled when the Riley car was submitted for scrappage as part of the deposit for a new Mini.

 

BMW always thought highly of both the Triumph and Riley brands and would have liked to launch a Riley sports car when they owned Rover. In the UK the Riley brand had been severely damaged by the Riley 1500 and the Riley Elf, so most of the target market wouldn't have understood a new "Riley"

 

Even so, BMW hung on to both brands when they sold off Longbridge and Land Rover

 

Richard (logged in as Sue)

 

Of course "Rover" is now owned by the Indian company Tata through Land Rover, having been sold to Ford by BMW

Edited July 2, 2011 by Mrs Tawny Owl

[David Schweizer]

BMW always thought highly of both the Triumph and Riley brands and would have liked to launch a Riley sports car when they owned Rover. In the UK the Riley brand had been severely damaged by the Riley 1500 and the Riley Elf, so most of the target market wouldn't have understood a new "Riley"

 

Even so, BMW hung on to both brands when they sold off Longbridge and Land Rover

 

Richard (logged in as Sue)

 

Of course "Rover" is now owned by the Indian company Tata through Land Rover, having been sold to Ford by BMW

I agree, All my Rileys were pre 1951, and although under the Nuffield wing by then, they were still fairly autonomous and were the last real Rileys to be manufactured.

 

God, I am beginning to get nostalgic, but I cannot afford one thease days.

[RLWP]

I agree, All my Rileys were pre 1951, and although under the Nuffield wing by then, they were still fairly autonomous and were the last real Rileys to be manufactured.

 

God, I am beginning to get nostalgic, but I cannot afford one thease days.

 

Go quick and you might get one for £3200

 

Ebay link to Rile RME

 

Richard

[David Schweizer]

Go quick and you might get one for £3200

 

Ebay link to Rile RME

 

Richard

Thanks, but no thanks. It is definitely not an RME, but neither is it a production RMA. It looks like a car cobbled together from various RM models, a bit like the Johny Cash Cadillac. It appears to be basicly an early RMA but incorporates the bumbers, roof and dashboard from a later later RME. There is no way that those rectangular Jaeger Instruments would have been installed in a 1948 car.

 

Rileys were well known for producing non standard bodies but this is not one of them, unless it realy was made by them in their last few weeks from bits still lying around the factory. If it is, I am sure Forum member Alec Gatherer, who restores Riley RM's for a living would be able to give more detail.

Edited July 3, 2011 by David Schweizer

[RobinJ]

Drive plates usually rattle or knock, the rattle tends to be in older plates that are simply wearing out, there are several causes but basicly bits are beguinning to get loose, the rattle is annoying rather than unbearable, The knocking can be quite alarming, and tends to occur either when the engine is cold, or at low speeds, I am not completely sure what causes it ( my plate does it) but increasing engine revs usually gets rid of it.

The type of drive plates vary enormously, the newer ones have plastic washers and bands that absorb the shock. If these plastic bits come off and the plate itself is quite thin, then it can result in scraping and grinding noises. They are also held on pins, which if they come into contact can result in knocking and banging noises.

Some of the older ones fitted with springs can mnake some very strange noises which can even sound a bit like a bell!

 

If there is a whining from the gearbox which is audible and oil is present, it would suggest a bearing, but they generally outlast the friction plates?

[bizzard]

Well, starting by stating the bleedin' obvious, how is the oil level?

 

Richard

 

MORE: PRM 150 parts list and section drawings here pdf file

 

Have found that on PRM hydraulic box's,the bolts holding the oil pump on the back of the box near the drive flange become slack and i think just the bottom one leaks oil out big time if slack or the wee copper washer under the head is faulty.

bizzard.

[craigx]

Fitted a flexible drive coupler (8 bolts and what appears to be a solid bit of plastic) and reduced the noise by about 50%.Well pleased! Would it be worth while adding molyslip to the gearbox or would this muck up the clutch.

[Priston]

Fitted a flexible drive coupler (8 bolts and what appears to be a solid bit of plastic) and reduced the noise by about 50%.Well pleased! Would it be worth while adding molyslip to the gearbox or would this muck up the clutch.

 

Don't

[bizzard]

Like all engines,gearboxes ect,they have breathers to take care of oil expansion and contraction.On contraction 'cooling down'they draw in a little air 'vacuum',which naturally has moisture in it which mixes with the oil and eventually causes an emulsion,and can cause the internal water cooling pipes to corrode,water leaks into the oil and 'Problems'this is one of the main reasons why its wise to change oil regulaly.The grey oil in the new gearbox is probably running in metal dust if you like,caused by gears and the like adjusting to each other,'running in',Change the oil.Most of the PRM boxes should have a magnetic drain plug to help trap this. bizzard