Doncaster to Manchester ship canal / west coast

[CygnusV]

Hi everyone, I'm new here

 

We're planning a few weeks away and are looking at the alternatives. We've considered Lincoln and York as destinations but thought perhaps a trip to the west coast might be good fun, via the Manchester Ship Canal. Our big problem is our draft, 3 foot 3 inches. Our boat is a 1951 'Gentleman's motor sailor', mahogany on oak, so we try to treat her as the old lady she is.

 

Has anyone done this trip? Our beam is 9 feet 6 inches, so we need to know that the locks are wide enough, and that there is sufficient water to accommodate our draft. I'd appreciate anyone 'in the know' to give us the benefit of their knowledge

 

Thanks in advance, Stu

 

 

This is our boat crossing the Wash in 1972

[RLWP]

Hi Stu, and welcome to the forum. What a fascinating boat

 

I have no experience of the trip you describe beyond half a day on the ship canal. However, I wonder what your air-draft is? That may make a difference to being able to do this trip as well

 

Richard

[Timleech]

Hi Stu, and welcome to the forum. What a fascinating boat

 

I have no experience of the trip you describe beyond half a day on the ship canal. However, I wonder what your air-draft is? That may make a difference to being able to do this trip as well

 

Richard

 

I'd be interested to know what the limiting draught might be these days for the Leeds & Liverpool. You'd have to use that or the Rochdale, and from what I read the Rochdale would be no good from the draught perspective, even though I think it was originally the deeper of the two.

 

I suspect a boat like yours might be more vulnerable to damage, especially to prop shafting and steering gear, than would a boat built for inland use, from contact with rubbish in the canal bed?

 

Tim

[mykaskin]

If you are in the NE, and want to the NW, you've got two choices - around the coast, or the Leeds and Liverpool (actually perhaps the Rochdale as well). If doing the inland route your depth should be OK for the L&L but expect to scrape over some things in bridge holes, and find the bottom in other places.

 

Width is no problem, but your Airdraft will probably be the most limiting thing. All I can say is suck it and see. Most big boats tend to get to the tunnel, but no further.

 

The MSC is a different animal altogether and you need to book this specially and get a "seaworthiness" certificate:

 

http://www.shipcanal.co.uk/assets/pdf/pleasure_craft_rules_msc.pdf

 

Cheers,

 

Mike

[RLWP]

If you are in the NE, and want to the NW, you've got two choices - around the coast, or the Leeds and Liverpool <snip>

 

Mike

 

Three. Caledonian canal

 

Richard

[mykaskin]

Three. Caledonian canal

 

Richard

 

That in my mind is a coastal route...

 

Mike

[muddywaters]

Three. Caledonian canal

 

Richard

Beat me to it.

That would be my choice with that boat.

Beautiful boat btw

[Naughty Cal]

Come to Lincoln.

 

(I want a gander at your boat)

[RLWP]

That in my mind is a coastal route...

 

Mike

 

So when you're in the middle of Scotland, you're in the coast

 

Richard

[magpie patrick]

Three. Caledonian canal

 

Richard

 

 

Four, Forth and Clyde...

 

As for the OP, I'd agree, your air draught is the biggest issue

[mykaskin]

So when you're in the middle of Scotland, you're in the coast

 

Richard

 

Still have to get the boat to Scotland, and then back south to the MSC!

 

Mike

[CygnusV]

Four, Forth and Clyde...

 

As for the OP, I'd agree, your air draught is the biggest issue

 

Thanks everyone for the responses. Our air draught is about 8 foot if we take off the TV aerial and drop the river mast. I didn't know about the seaworthiness cert so will probably drop that idea for another time. Our BSC expires in September so I'll ask Bill Rosie if he's qualified to complete the form. Any idea how long the certificate is valid for?

 

 

This one taken last year, September I think. No gunnell trims fitted until next years lift as we're having to have them remade.

The one wearing the hanging basket is my long time partner Kath. We spend most of the year aboard and love it.

Picture taken outside The New Inn at Stainforth. Excellent little pub with very good food. Only 40 water minutes away from our home mooring.

Stu

[stewey]

We spend most of the year aboard and love it.

I'm not surprised by that! Lovely boat.

 

Stewey

[Pluto]

Depth is always a problem as you cannot allow for what can be thrown in. That said, a traditional L&L boat would draw about 3 feet, though not across the full 14 feet width, and would draw down at least four inches when underway. You would not need to use the ship canal as you can get into tidal waters at Liverpool or Tarleton. For the Leeds & Liverpool, I have set down the following, which should also be on the L&LC Society web pages:

 

L&LC Dimensions

 

The official 1888 canal returns give 61 feet as the maximum length for locks on the L&LC. Dowley Gap had the shortest chamber, at 64 feet 4 inches, probably measured between the quoins, where lock gates pivot against the lock wall, so not that much use in giving a true usable length. Although 61 feet is still often quoted, an 1898 specification for a typical boat gives a length of 61 feet 6 inches measured over the stem and stern posts, and the iron and steel boats sometimes quote 62 feet 6 inches, though this probably included the rudder. It is really impossible to be definitive to 6 inches, and we would always advise 61 feet as a guaranteed length, though it is possible for a longer narrow boat to use the locks diagonally.

 

However, when thinking of building a boat, always remember the Calder & Hebble Navigation, whose locks in 1888 were quoted at 57 feet 6 inches long with a width of 14 feet 1 inch, making them smaller than those on the L&LC. Elland Low was quoted as having the shortest length between quoins, at 60 feet 7 inches.

 

When it comes to length on canals, there is only one way to tell and that is to try it, as most old boatmen would advise.

 

Air draft is variable, as it depends on the shape of the bridge. A stone arch bridge may have sufficient headroom in the centre, but insufficient at the sides, while modern flat bridges may be lower than arched bridges, but offer better headroom over the whole channel. For arch bridges, Leigh Bridge is one of the lowest, together with Altham Barn Bridge, while that at Shipley is one of the lowest flat bridges. Note that this bridge tapers downwards to one side. A clear height of 7 feet 10 inches is sometimes quoted, but slightly higher boats may be able to pass if they have narrow cabins. Care should always be taken by boats approaching the quoted headroom as canal levels can also rise and fall.

[Timleech]

Still have to get the boat to Scotland, and then back south to the MSC!

 

Mike

 

The OP was talking about the MSC as a route to the sea, not from the sea

 

Tim

 

Depth is always a problem as you cannot allow for what can be thrown in. That said, a traditional L&L boat would draw about 3 feet, though not across the full 14 feet width, and would draw down at least four inches when underway. You would not need to use the ship canal as you can get into tidal waters at Liverpool or Tarleton. For the Leeds & Liverpool, I have set down the following, which should also be on the L&LC Society web pages:

 

L&LC Dimensions

 

The official 1888 canal returns give 61 feet as the maximum length for locks on the L&LC. Dowley Gap had the shortest chamber, at 64 feet 4 inches, probably measured between the quoins, where lock gates pivot against the lock wall, so not that much use in giving a true usable length. Although 61 feet is still often quoted, an 1898 specification for a typical boat gives a length of 61 feet 6 inches measured over the stem and stern posts, and the iron and steel boats sometimes quote 62 feet 6 inches, though this probably included the rudder. It is really impossible to be definitive to 6 inches, and we would always advise 61 feet as a guaranteed length, though it is possible for a longer narrow boat to use the locks diagonally.

 

However, when thinking of building a boat, always remember the Calder & Hebble Navigation, whose locks in 1888 were quoted at 57 feet 6 inches long with a width of 14 feet 1 inch, making them smaller than those on the L&LC. Elland Low was quoted as having the shortest length between quoins, at 60 feet 7 inches.

 

When it comes to length on canals, there is only one way to tell and that is to try it, as most old boatmen would advise.

 

Air draft is variable, as it depends on the shape of the bridge. A stone arch bridge may have sufficient headroom in the centre, but insufficient at the sides, while modern flat bridges may be lower than arched bridges, but offer better headroom over the whole channel. For arch bridges, Leigh Bridge is one of the lowest, together with Altham Barn Bridge, while that at Shipley is one of the lowest flat bridges. Note that this bridge tapers downwards to one side. A clear height of 7 feet 10 inches is sometimes quoted, but slightly higher boats may be able to pass if they have narrow cabins. Care should always be taken by boats approaching the quoted headroom as canal levels can also rise and fall.

 

Surely more than that loaded, Mike? Nearer to 4 feet?

 

I'd be interested in your opinion as to how I'd get on with my Kennet, at least 3'6" static draught & 9' beam, between Wigan & Leeds?

 

Tim

[CygnusV]

The OP was talking about the MSC as a route to the sea, not from the sea

 

Tim

 

 

 

Surely more than that loaded, Mike? Nearer to 4 feet?

 

I'd be interested in your opinion as to how I'd get on with my Kennet, at least 3'6" static draught & 9' beam, between Wigan & Leeds?

 

Tim

 

I've only been on the L&L once. That was delivering a 60 foot wide beam from Leeds centre, through Office lock and on to Rodley. I believe the draught on that boat was 2 foot 6 inches. It was only possible to proceed very slowly because of a decided lack of water depth. If the Rochdale canal is shallower than the L&L it seems to have scuppered thoughts of visiting the west coast. We're only 30 foot long BTW.

 

Stu

[David Mack]

I've only been on the L&L once. That was delivering a 60 foot wide beam from Leeds centre, through Office lock and on to Rodley. I believe the draught on that boat was 2 foot 6 inches. It was only possible to proceed very slowly because of a decided lack of water depth. If the Rochdale canal is shallower than the L&L it seems to have scuppered thoughts of visiting the west coast. We're only 30 foot long BTW.

 

Stu

Ex-working narrowboats drawing 3 ft have been over the Rochdale without too much trouble. You are presumably not as flat bottomed as a narrowboat, so you ought to be OK for depth at 3 ft 3 max.

 

David

[CygnusV]

Come to Lincoln.

 

(I want a gander at your boat)

 

It does indeed look as if we will be in Lincoln back end of August. The MSC looks like a no go this year. Happy to say 'hello'. Stu