Managing batteries

[Naughty Cal]

No, I probably won't but thank you for your concern.

 

Interesting that most of the people treating DeanS with derision are not liveaboard boaters.

 

 

 

The most sensible thing said on this thread in 8 pages.

 

Sorry Chris but a lot of people have been giving the same advice which is just falling on deaf ears.Deans stance seems to be that he cant afford to upgrade his charging systemt but he can afford to buy a new battery every couple of months. A false economy when some simple and cheap upgrades are avaliable.

 

A new alternator and a better battery charger would be a good start. Neither of which have to be expensive.

[DeanS]

Sorry Chris but a lot of people have been giving the same advice which is just falling on deaf ears.Deans stance seems to be that he cant afford to upgrade his charging systemt but he can afford to buy a new battery every couple of months. A false economy when some simple and cheap upgrades are avaliable.

 

A new alternator and a better battery charger would be a good start. Neither of which have to be expensive.

 

 

How can you say it's falling on deaf ears, when I keep saying I agree with everyones advice?

Ok, let me run out quick, empty the bank balance, get back and install everything, and then post on the forum that I've done it. Sure, I wont have any petrol money to get my kid to his exams this month, but at least you'll feel I have done the right thing

 

ok, about the alternator. You're assuming that I know how to change it, and that I'm confident in changing it, and that I have the right replacement. In previous threads, helpful folk have confirmed an A127 is the one I should be getting. Some told me not to worry about the fact mine has a plastic plug, because the pins etc are readily interchangeable. Am I now feeling confident that I'll do it right. No. Am I planning on getting it done. Yes. Soon. I hope Regarding the battery charger. Why buy one which can charge an entire bank, for 8 hours, when I will most likely never be on a 220V connection long enough to have 8hrs power?

 

About changing a battery every few months...all I do is take out a spanner, 2 nuts out with the old, in with the new, done. It's something I feel confident I can do...anytime...anywhere....when I have the cash. Is it the right thing to do if living aboard....we've already established that it probably isnt...

[blodger]

ok, about the alternator. You're assuming that I know how to change it, and that I'm confident in changing it, and that I have the right replacement. In previous threads, helpful folk have confirmed an A127 is the one I should be getting. Some told me not to worry about the fact mine has a plastic plug, because the pins etc are readily interchangeable. Am I now feeling confident that I'll do it right. No. Am I planning on getting it done. Yes. Soon. I hope

 

You have never posted a pic of your current alt or anything definitive so there has always been an element of guesswork around this based upon your presentation of the facts. I, and others, have been consistent in saying this is the priority to resolve one way or another else we have all been wasting our time responding. However, others following the thread may have gained something so feel free to ignore what I have said but be prepared to not have the last word

[DeanS]

ok, about the alternator. You're assuming that I know how to change it, and that I'm confident in changing it, and that I have the right replacement. In previous threads, helpful folk have confirmed an A127 is the one I should be getting. Some told me not to worry about the fact mine has a plastic plug, because the pins etc are readily interchangeable. Am I now feeling confident that I'll do it right. No. Am I planning on getting it done. Yes. Soon. I hope

 

You have never posted a pic of your current alt or anything definitive so there has always been an element of guesswork around this based upon your presentation of the facts. I, and others, have been consistent in saying this is the priority to resolve one way or another else we have all been wasting our time responding. However, others following the thread may have gained something so feel free to ignore what I have said but be prepared to not have the last word

 

You missed this thread the one you missed

[nb Innisfree]

I said I was finished with this thread but here goes for the last time (I hope)

 

To be fair to the OP he didn't ask a question in the first place, just made an observation and in any case is there ever any point in asking advice? Unless you just ask one person for their advice and go along with that you will get umpteen different opinions, who's advice do you take? If you have read up enough on a subject there will be no need to ask, you will work out the best course of action yourself. e.g. when I asked several people in the know how to ballast our boat we got a different answer each time, there could be only one correct way so my missus and myself sat down and started from first principles and did our separate calculations, several different ones, and compared them, then we did a joint calculation and in the end we came to a logical conclusion and adopted that method and when we launched the result was spot on. Only then could we see that not one piece of advice we received was correct, except for one, as our pride and joy sat on the water after launching a boat builder called Pat Buckle told us his method which agreed with our calculations, he was the only one who was right but then we only knew that after doing the sums ourselves.

 

We never took any advice when fitting out our nb, we listened but it was all done by burning the midnight oil reading up on everything and then using our own judgement.

 

My conclusion: You have to be knowledgeable to ask the right questions in the first place. there's no easy way, either pay someone to do things for you or take the time and trouble to work it out for yourself, both have their risks but the latter, though it's hard work, is easier in the long run.

 

IMO

[blodger]

You missed this thread the one you missed

 

No. Although I had forgotten for the moment. I contributed to that asking for clarification that behind some of the paint it was plastic to confirm ACR though others seemed to think it was anyway so theje thread continued and got lost, as is the way.

[Chris Pink]

 

About changing a battery every few months...all I do is take out a spanner, 2 nuts out with the old, in with the new, done. It's something I feel confident I can do...anytime...anywhere....when I have the cash. Is it the right thing to do if living aboard....we've already established that it probably isnt...

 

You may say that....

 

but i remember a recent and bad-tempered (not surprising given the participants) thread about which nut to undo first.

 

be afraid, be very very afraid.......

 

... there could be only one correct way

 

Reluctant to add anything to this sage exposition, I will, however point out that there is rarely one correct way.

 

Anyone with a passing knowledge of mathematical problem solving will know if there is more than one variable there is more than one solution. For any real world problem for which there will be a number of variables you will end up with a number of solutions for which you have to make decisions on each variable in turn (the major one usually being money) until you reach the solution that is optimum (not best mind, optimum) for you.

 

This is why, on this thread, as you point out, DeanS is right (for him) and everyone else is wrong by implying there is only one way to solve his issues.

 

The variables in any power generation debate? You, at the back there......

Edited May 12, 2011 by Chris Pink

[blodger]

We are on post plus 150, and this is becoming tiresome...... The usual suggestions, counter suggestions, misreading of posts, assisted by "professional knowledge and opinions". Then posts end up sliding into personal attacks... the usual CWDF bullshit.. by the usual CWDF bullshitters...

 

Suggestion.. Buy "Boatowner's Mechanical and Electrical Manual " by Nigel Calder... Read, and digest, Chapters One through Three, plus, Chapter Six.... form your own opinion...End Of..

Many people seem to have been following the thread; probably more than would be entertained by Nigel Calder's book (which I have before me) excellent though it may be in some respects.

 

DeanS is doing pretty well without it; gaining knowledge that is and, using CWDF quite well to his own ends IMO.

[Robin2]

Nice retraction.

 

I have not retracted ... you have chickened out

[RLWP]

Eyes down for another ten pages

 

Richard

[smileypete]

ps..you dont have to keep on with the same rhetoric saying I'm not listening. I've already said a few times that I agree with the experts. Just because I'm trying an interim solution, doesnt make me a lesser being. We are simply talking about boat batteries...nothing to get emotional about

 

Best I can recommend is to study the the battery FAQ and spend £20-30 on a decent (0.5% accurate) panel voltmeter and shunt ammeter, also a decent hydrometer if your batts aren't the sealed type.

 

cheers,

Pete.

Edited May 12, 2011 by smileypete

[WotEver]

I have not retracted ...

[Chris Pink]

 

 

Here is the manufacturer's life cycle graph for Odyssey batteries...

 

http://smartgauge.co.uk/bits/ODYSSEY_cycle_life_vs_DOD.pdf

 

 

 

Although this graph is more of a marketing summary than scientific data the interesting thing is not that if you only discharge a little you'll have a very long battery life (which any ful no) but how flat the graph is between 50% and 100% DOD, somewhat throwing a smidgeon of cloudy doubt into the mantra of only discharge to 50% for most economic battery life.

 

It looks to me from that data, although it applies to only one rather well made and specialised battery, that if you don't size a battery bank for < 20% DOD (say) then the 50% 'rule' is not particularly significant.

 

Would be interesting to have the same picture for cheaper batteries.

Edited May 13, 2011 by Chris Pink

[Gibbo]

I have not retracted ... you have chickened out

 

Don't be silly. The graph is there for you to see. I've explained that you have misread the graph because you haven't accounted for logarithmic scaling between the graph lines. You're just too lazy, or unable, to learn how to do it and expect someone else to do it for you. In the meantime you will continue to believe your own incorrect conclusions, as usual.

[Andt The Fiddler]

Wow, good topic, I have just ordered a set of new batteries for my boat -

 

110 ah sealed

 

Teh old ones only lasted 2 years and I am a bit upset by this - I suspect it is because we moved out of a marina where they were on permananet charge and shore power and have now worked them hard - 3 weeks ago drained them quite considerably!

 

I can still start the generator and the boat but one battery which showed 75 Ah last night would not drive the lights htis morning!

 

So the question really is can you overcharge them?

 

In theory my victron centaur should not overcharge them?

 

In theory the alternator on the engine can?

 

Any words of wisdom that might help?

 

 

£500+ on batteries every two years is a bit of an unexpected expense!

 

Andy

[Gibbo]

It's undercharging you want to be watching for. That's far more likely the problem.

[Andt The Fiddler]

Ah no - point taken but last night I ran the generator having split the battery bank and charged the started battery to 81 Ah and one of the domestic bank too.

 

I also ran a separate charger on one of the other batteries to 75 ah.

 

This morning the separate one was showing the same 75 ah

The starter (unused since last night) 4 ah and the domestic connected was not running the lights and the fridge!

 

So I think they are knackered - to put it in the vernacular....

 

After two years....

 

pants!

[Gibbo]

and charged the started battery to 81 Ah

 

I don't understand this. "to 85 Ah" from what? During charging, Amp hour counters usually count down not up.

[DeanS]

Hi all.

 

THIS is an A127 alternator I have found on Ebay which I want to order today. It seems to have the same plastic connector which mine has. It also comes with THIS fan and pulley kit. Before I order it, does anyone foresee any problems me removing my old one for this one. I THINK it has the right bolt hole positions, and I GUESS the pulley will work ok once I've adjusted the tension? The link to my existing alternator pics is higher up in the thread. Sorry, dont know how to add it while in this posting screen

 

This would be my first step to nirvana, as suggested by members of the forum

[RLWP]

Hi all.

 

THIS is an A127 alternator I have found on Ebay which I want to order today. It seems to have the same plastic connector which mine has. It also comes with THIS fan and pulley kit. Before I order it, does anyone foresee any problems me removing my old one for this one. I THINK it has the right bolt hole positions, and I GUESS the pulley will work ok once I've adjusted the tension? The link to my existing alternator pics is higher up in the thread. Sorry, dont know how to add it while in this posting screen

 

This would be my first step to nirvana, as suggested by members of the forum

 

You should be able to reuse your existing fan, nut and pulley, saving yourself nearly £17. Otherwise, it's a good job for a beginner - a straight nut and bolt job, and it has the right connector, which is a bonus

 

Richard

 

Richard

[Timleech]

You should be able to reuse your existing fan, nut and pulley, saving yourself nearly £17. Otherwise, it's a good job for a beginner - a straight nut and bolt job, and it has the right connector, which is a bonus

 

Richard

 

 

The existing pulley does look fairly large. You might benefit from going for one slightly smaller in diameter, which might in turn require a shorter belt.

 

Tim

[RLWP]

The existing pulley does look fairly large. You might benefit from going for one slightly smaller in diameter, which might in turn require a shorter belt.

 

Tim

 

Ok, let's go with that advice. That will save the problems of getting the existing nut off the alternator. Not impossible, but a bit tricky if you are new to this stuff.

 

Can we help Dean with identifying an appropriate new belt?

 

Richard

[blodger]

Hi all.

 

THIS is an A127 alternator I have found on Ebay which I want to order today. It seems to have the same plastic connector which mine has. It also comes with THIS fan and pulley kit. Before I order it, does anyone foresee any problems me removing my old one for this one. I THINK it has the right bolt hole positions, and I GUESS the pulley will work ok once I've adjusted the tension? The link to my existing alternator pics is higher up in the thread. Sorry, dont know how to add it while in this posting screen

 

This would be my first step to nirvana, as suggested by members of the forum

 

Congratulations and thanks to ChrisP for persuading you

 

If you spend the extra few quid and get a new pulley too leaving your old one intact you will still have a quick emergency spare/ something you can easily swop out.

[DeanS]

Sorry guys...just trying to get my head around this. If I buy both new kits....are you saying that my "pulley"...(the rubber thingie) may not be an identical fit to the new wheel on the new alternator..(I thought you could just adjust the tension by loosening a bolt, pulling the alternator back, and re-tightening. I'm happy to fork out the extra £17 for the kit, because I'm concerned that the existing alternator size is 15mm whereas the new is 17. (Are we talking about the hole size through the middle of the pulley wheel on the alternator side).

 

I'll buy whatever you tell me to buy..LOL.

 

For the record, I have noticed that the previous boat owner did stash a spare pulley in the engine room. Looking at it, it has the following markings on it..

 

HI POWER - MN - A49 - 13X1250LI - 1280Lp - 1E

 

It seems to be a pulley replacement for whats on the current setup.

 

So what should I buy....just the 2 kits I've mentioned?

[Chris Pink]

 

If you spend the extra few quid and get a new pulley too leaving your old one intact you will still have a quick emergency spare/ something you can easily swop out.

 

or fit two