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Categorising boaters is wrong.

DeanS

By DeanS
in General Boating

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DeanS Veteran II

DeanS

Posted
Posted (edited)

For months I've read the various discussions/fights over types of moorers/overstayers etc, and I'm aware one thread was shut down because it got hijacked..so I'd like to ask anyone who responds to this thread, that they try and control themselves:) My understanding is:

 

1. Some people pay for mooring and stay in a marina all year and never move.

2. Some people pay for a designated towpath mooring all year and never move.

3. Some people Continuous cruise and find a mooring in a marina over the frozen months.

4. Some people Continuous cruise and get stuck on a towpath for the frozen months.

5. Some people who hire or use their boats for short trips/weekends only such as hire boats.

 

My point is this. No matter which you are (1-5), for the sake of this thread, I'd like to generally call you a "Canal Citizen".

 

So, starting with the basis that we are all canal citizens, it is clear that some "citizens" are taking advantage of :

 

6. staying at moorings longer than they should because there is no regulation.

7. staying at moorings or cruising a short area due to lack of legal specifics.

8. some who are happy to evade any regulations or legal specifics and take their chances.

 

I feel it's completely illogical to try and say that 6,7 and 8 are caused or pandemic amongst a specific group of 1,2,3,4,5.

 

For example...someone in group 1, may leave their official mooring, travel to the other side of the network, and act in a manner such as 6,7,8.

At the same time someone in group 3, may never ever act in a manner such as 6,7,8.

 

 

I fail to therefore see the logic of even discussing the issue of 6,7,8 by linking the offences to any specific group 1,2,3,4 or 5. Every time you do, the debate goes nowhere.

 

I hope that I never become someone guilty of 6,7,8 and it makes no difference which group 1,2,3,4,5 I belong too.

 

It is so rediculous to see threads where certain "types" of boaters are branded guilty when it is actually impossible to record every boaters actions.

 

Hereby ends the lesson. B)

Try stay on topic B)

Edited by DeanS
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carlt Veteran II

carlt

Posted
Posted (edited)

Actually I prefer to be seen as an individual who happens to own a boat.

 

I have no affinity with people who own cars (though I count many car owners as friends) so why should I 'get on' with all boat owners, just because we share a transport mode?

 

I haven't bothered trying to make head or tail of your "1,2,3 blames 4,5,6 for 7,8,9's dinner burning", because I feel I would lose the will to live, half way through.

 

If anyone does read it, in detail, and can recommend it to the house, I'll take another look.

 

Oh, and if it was intended to be a lesson, I'm afraid I was a notorious class skipper. ;)

Edited by carlt
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Guest

Posted
Posted

For months I've read the various discussions/fights over types of moorers/overstayers etc, and I'm aware one thread was shut down because it got hijacked..so I'd like to ask anyone who responds to this thread, that they try and control themselves:) My understanding is:

 

1. Some people pay for mooring and stay in a marina all year and never move.

2. Some people pay for a designated towpath mooring all year and never move.

3. Some people Continuous cruise and find a mooring in a marina over the frozen months.

4. Some people Continuous cruise and get stuck on a towpath for the frozen months.

5. Some people who hire or use their boats for short trips/weekends only such as hire boats.

 

My point is this. No matter which you are (1-5), for the sake of this thread, I'd like to generally call you a "Canal Citizen".

 

So, starting with the basis that we are all canal citizens, it is clear that some "citizens" are taking advantage of :

 

5. staying at moorings longer than they should because there is no regulation.

6. staying at moorings or cruising a short area due to lack of legal specifics.

7. some who are happy to evade any regulations or legal specifics and take their chances.

 

I feel it's completely illogical to try and say that 5,6 and 7 are caused or pandemic amongst a specific group of 1,2,3,4,5.

 

For example...someone in group 1, may leave their official mooring, travel to the other side of the network, and act in a manner such as 5,6,7.

At the same time someone in group 3, may never ever act in a manner such as 5,6,7.

 

 

I fail to therefore see the logic of even discussing the issue of 5,6,7 by linking the offences to any specific group 1,2,3,4 or 5. Every time you do, the debate goes nowhere.

 

I hope that I never become someone guilty of 5,6,7 and it makes no difference which group 1,2,3,4 I belong too.

 

It is so rediculous to see threads where certain "types" of boaters are branded guilty when it is actually impossible to record every boaters actions.

 

Hereby ends the lesson. B)

Try stay on topic B)

 

 

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

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carlt Veteran II

carlt

Posted
Posted

Scavengers and sycophants and flatterers

and fools

Pharisees and parasites and hypocrites

and ghouls

Calculating swindlers, prevaricating frauds

Perpetrating evil as they roam the earth

in hordes

Feeding on their fellow men

Reaping rich rewards

Contaminating everything they see

Corrupting honest me like me

Humbug! Poppycock! Balderdash! Bah!

I hate people! I hate people!

People are despicable creatures

Loathesome inexplicable creatures

Good-for-nothing kickable creatures

I hate people! I abhor them!

When I see the indolent classes

Sitting on their indolent asses

Gulping ale from indolent glasses

I hate people! I detest them! I deplore them!

Fools who have no money spend it

Get in debt then try to end it

Beg me on their knees befriend them

Knowing I have cash to lend them

Soft-hearted me! Hard-working me!

Clean-living, thrifty and kind as can be!

Situations like this are of interest to me

I hate people! I loathe people! I despise and abominate people!

Life is full of cretinous wretches

Earning what their sweatiness fetches

Empty minds whose pettiness stretches

Further than I can see

Little wonder I hate people

And I don't care if they hate me!

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ymu Rising Star

ymu

Posted
Posted

More overstay tickets are issued to people with moorings than those on CC licences. 7% of CCers on the L&S use those precious visitor moorings.

 

Ignore the divide and rule idiocy. Tribalism is pathetic. Some people take advantage, others are as considerate as they can be. Smearing entire groups on the basis of the actions of a few, or outright myth, is the action of a bigot, and bigots are an irritating irrelevance to most people's lives and should be treated with the contempt they deserve.

 

Now, how's about we think about how we can secure the future of the waterways for everyone who uses them?

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DeanS Veteran II

DeanS

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Posted

More overstay tickets are issued to people with moorings than those on CC licences. 7% of CCers on the L&S use those precious visitor moorings.

 

Ignore the divide and rule idiocy. Tribalism is pathetic. Some people take advantage, others are as considerate as they can be. Smearing entire groups on the basis of the actions of a few, or outright myth, is the action of a bigot, and bigots are an irritating irrelevance to most people's lives and should be treated with the contempt they deserve.

 

Now, how's about we think about how we can secure the future of the waterways for everyone who uses them?

 

I prefer using numbers.

 

If 1 to 5 are canal citizens what are the others called in 5 to 7 :P

 

free?

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alan_fincher Veteran II

alan_fincher

Posted
Posted

More overstay tickets are issued to people with moorings than those on CC licences. 7% of CCers on the L&S use those precious visitor moorings.

I had vowed so firmly to stay out of this, honest I have.

 

I don't particularly have any axe to grind on the topic, other than occasionally I am unable to get on one of the most popular London moorings, because one regularly sees the same boats moving around between them.

 

But on the evidence I see locally to where I live, please let's not try to pretend that the very many boats that have not moved more than a couple of pounds in many months, (and in many cases not moved at all), are not people who have declared themselves as continuous cruisers, or that they are paying for winter moorings.

 

Virtually all are continuous cruisers, and the winter moorings stood un-let, whilst people have moored elsewhere, largely unchallenged.

 

Is it a problem ?

 

Well, at the moment, no it probably isn't, and I can't get wound up by the facts.

 

But lets at least stick to facts.....

 

Are they "continuous cruisers" - yes actually they nearly all are, (and I talk to a lot of them, so I'm not talking from guesswork).

 

Somebody will say "you don't know they don't have special dispensation from BW, because of some special set of circumstances", and of course it's possible that a handful of them may have.

 

But dozens of them ? And for at least the last 5 years in many cases ?

 

Of course the situation may be radically different in other bits of the country, but please don't try and convince me that even 10% of the boats moored on my local tow-paths actually have paid for moorings elsewhere - it is abundantly clear that this cannot be the case.

 

(Finally, I may have quoted a point about "overstay tickets", but as far as I can see, very few ever get issued on the tow-paths I walk - and it's over-stayers who are telling me that, before you question it!).

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DeanS Veteran II

DeanS

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Posted (edited)

I had vowed so firmly to stay out of this, honest I have.

 

I don't particularly have any axe to grind on the topic, other than occasionally I am unable to get on one of the most popular London moorings, because one regularly sees the same boats moving around between them.

 

But on the evidence I see locally to where I live, please let's not try to pretend that the very many boats that have not moved more than a couple of pounds in many months, (and in many cases not moved at all), are not people who have declared themselves as continuous cruisers, or that they are paying for winter moorings.

 

Virtually all are continuous cruisers, and the winter moorings stood un-let, whilst people have moored elsewhere, largely unchallenged.

 

Is it a problem ?

 

Well, at the moment, no it probably isn't, and I can't get wound up by the facts.

 

But lets at least stick to facts.....

 

Are they "continuous cruisers" - yes actually they nearly all are, (and I talk to a lot of them, so I'm not talking from guesswork).

 

Somebody will say "you don't know they don't have special dispensation from BW, because of some special set of circumstances", and of course it's possible that a handful of them may have.

 

But dozens of them ? And for at least the last 5 years in many cases ?

 

Of course the situation may be radically different in other bits of the country, but please don't try and convince me that even 10% of the boats moored on my local tow-paths actually have paid for moorings elsewhere - it is abundantly clear that this cannot be the case.

 

(Finally, I may have quoted a point about "overstay tickets", but as far as I can see, very few ever get issued on the tow-paths I walk - and it's over-stayers who are telling me that, before you question it!).

 

You've missed my entire point.

They might say they are continuous cruisers, but that would mean they are in groups 1-5. We know they are actually in groups 6-8. Therefore they are actually a seperate group...called....EVADERS.

 

...and the reason I get peaved when you lump them as a continuous cruiser, is that I am a CC-er and I am guilty of nothing. If you continue to brand EVADERS as CC-ers, the powers that be might introduce laws to control CC-ers instead of EVADERS. That would be unfair to me, who has spent a fortune to enjoy the canals legally, as a CC-er. I am not an EVADER. Dont give EVADERS the same name you give to me. Thanks.

Edited by DeanS
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ymu Rising Star

ymu

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Posted

Alan, I'm not denying that there are issues with CCers overstaying, but your anecdotal 'evidence' is not relevant. I am referring to the NABO FOIA request to BW which reveals that more overstay tickets are issued to people with home moorings than those on CC licences. It is simply incorrect to associate it solely with CCers.

 

If you dispute the data, find some evidence to show that BW are lying. Your observations from a small patch, reported by someone with a mindset that thinks it's even remotely plausible that a behaviour can be universalised to, and exclusively ascribed to, one group defined by their licence status is ... well, not very convincing.

 

Endlessly repeating a lie does not make it true. And once it is proved to be a lie, continuing to do so is somewhat damaging to your credibility.

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carlt Veteran II

carlt

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Posted

not at all. You're assuming that EVADERS are boaters.

I'm not.

 

B)

I'm not assuming anything.

 

They are boaters, just ones you are willing to categorise separately though, personally, you separating the 'categories' into numbers, rather than names, merely makes the whole thing even more tedious.

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churchward Veteran II

churchward

Posted
Posted

You really are on a hiding to nothing with this kind of argument.

 

I guess I am not a Canal Citizen either as you don't list me (and a lot of others) I have a marina mooring but do move around.

 

I'm not assuming anything.

 

They are boaters, just ones you are willing to categorise separately though, personally, you separating the 'categories' into numbers, rather than names, merely makes the whole thing even more tedious.

I am not a number!!!

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