Hello - advice needed please!

[phantomlady]

Hello everyone.

We are sailors who virtually live aboard our yacht and we are planning to buy a barge and live and cruise on it more or less permanently now we are getting older.

The main question for us is - what barge??

We really like the dutch barges and are planning to cruise the European waterways for some of the time but don't want to be too restricted by width and air draft that we are unable to get through the British waterways (specifically London to Bristol)

Also, we would like a boat that was capable of making a coastal passage.

Are we asking too much? Is there such a vessel?

Does a wide beam also restrict the availability of moorings? (I'm guessing it does...)

Any advice would be most gratefully received.

Thank you.

[ymu]

Some widebeams/Dutch barges are proper sea-going vessels, some of them are not. I think it's Category C (and B?) you're looking for. Some 'sea-going' vessels are better than others at handling lumpy water, so research the builders carefully.

 

UK broad canals are up to 14' (I think), but you might want to leave yourself a little more wiggle room than that. Up north, the length is limited to 57', down south it's 72'.

 

London to Bristol is no problem in a widey. The Grand Union and Kennet & Avon are both wide (as is the Thames). You won't be able to access the northern wide canals without taking a trip around the coast.

 

Jim Shead has a nice map of the broad and narrow canals, plus rivers.

[Gunna Do]

I was on the link canal through Nottingham last year and following a very nice wide beam barge. This is a wide beam route so I was not anticipating problems however he met another one, the only time I have ever seen 2 on the same bit of water! They tried to pass but the canal was too shallow so one ended up reversing approx 1/2 mile to get to a wider bit so that the deed could be accomplished. The main purpose of this dribble is to point out that just because it says you can pass through a particular route, it doesn't necessarily mean that it is easy!

[canaldrifter]

You might find this entertaining:

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00scqsn/Timothy_Spall_Somewhere_at_Sea_The_Bogey_Man/

 

Tone

Edited February 24, 2011 by canaldrifter

[Paul Evans]

You might find this entertaining:

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00scqsn/Timothy_Spall_Somewhere_at_Sea_The_Bogey_Man/

 

Tone

 

Too much http:// Tone. Here's a working link: Tim Spall

[jim and pat dalton]

This map is also useful as it gives a few dimensions

 

http://www.barging.co.uk/mapuk.htm

 

 

jim

[phantomlady]

Thanks for the link but BBC IPlayer won't work abroad

We saw the programme anyway when it was on telly.

Wish I could afford a barge like his!!

 

By the way, yachts make good use of wind power by fitting wind generators to help charge their batteries. Not noticed any on canal boats....is it cos it's not very windy??

 

Also, forgive my ignorance but all these boats that have washing machines on them - what happpens to the water? does it go into the holding tank, in which case it will fill it up very quickly. Our holding tank on our yacht is only 40 litres but then we only use it for 'black' waste. Washing up and showering goes straight into the sea.

[Albion]

By the way, yachts make good use of wind power by fitting wind generators to help charge their batteries. Not noticed any on canal boats....is it cos it's not very windy??

 

Also, forgive my ignorance but all these boats that have washing machines on them - what happpens to the water? does it go into the holding tank, in which case it will fill it up very quickly. Our holding tank on our yacht is only 40 litres but then we only use it for 'black' waste. Washing up and showering goes straight into the sea.

 

Some inland craft use wind turbines for power generation but they tend to be clumsy to erect/dismantle, quite expensive and rather noisy from what I've been told. Solar panels seem to be the alternative method of choice inland but, again, not cheap.

 

All grey water goes overboard on the UK canals. Some people try to use eco products to avoid too many phosphates(?) going in to the water. Black water into pump out tanks or cassette tanks.

Roger

Edited February 24, 2011 by Albion

[Gunna Do]

Getting clean wind on the inland system is a lottery. You pass one boat and his genny is spinning madly, a few boats away and there may be one not moving. Being a lumpy water sailor like you, I generally had a wind genny but since taking to the canals have found solar much more reliable. You will also have the problem of stowing a generator when moving.

Yes, washing water goes straight out the skin fitting just like you're used to. We use a twin tub because it uses less power and water but you can't just switch it on and leave it. You pay your money and make a choice!

[luctor et emergo]

Soooo.... Which is better, pump-out, or cassette?

[Albion]

Soooo.... Which is better, pump-out, or cassette?

 

Large wooden spoon for L&E please.

I deliberately avoided commenting on that in my post even though there is only one sensible choice.

Roger

[wandering snail]

Large wooden spoon for L&E please.

I deliberately avoided commenting on that in my post even though there is only one sensible choice.

Roger

 

Glad you have seen the light - composting

[luctor et emergo]

My work is done...

 

:-)

[ymu]

Large wooden spoon for L&E please.

I deliberately avoided commenting on that in my post even though there is only one sensible choice.

Roger

What, for everyone, regardless of circumstances? Really?

[Albion]

Glad you have seen the light - composting

 

I haven't seen the light, but I have had the misfortune of having to smell the smell by mooring next to a boat that had a composter. Thanks but no thanks

There is only one real choice but I'm not letting L&E get away with prodding the wasp's nest so I won't comment on which is my choice.

Roger

[phantomlady]

I haven't seen the light, but I have had the misfortune of having to smell the smell by mooring next to a boat that had a composter. Thanks but no thanks

There is only one real choice but I'm not letting L&E get away with prodding the wasp's nest so I won't comment on which is my choice.

Roger

 

 

Oh do composters really smell?? Had given these serious consideration as we like to be as 'eco' (ie cheap) as possible.

 

Getting clean wind on the inland system is a lottery. You pass one boat and his genny is spinning madly, a few boats away and there may be one not moving. Being a lumpy water sailor like you, I generally had a wind genny but since taking to the canals have found solar much more reliable. You will also have the problem of stowing a generator when moving.

Yes, washing water goes straight out the skin fitting just like you're used to. We use a twin tub because it uses less power and water but you can't just switch it on and leave it. You pay your money and make a choice!

 

Are these twin-tubs just the normal domestic ones used in houses or a special boat one??

[ymu]

Oh do composters really smell?? Had given these serious consideration as we like to be as 'eco' (ie cheap) as possible.

They need to be set up right, and it can take a bit of trial and error to achieve that. They separate liquid and solid waste, but some of the liquid stays with the solid. The balance of liquid and solid has to be right for it to do the job properly - if not, they smell.

 

Lots of information out there. If you want one, research it carefully, and try to talk to some boaters who have them - including visiting their boat, if you can!

 

Cassette toilets are pretty stinky too. The good thing about the composting ones is that the smell goes to the outside ...

[ditchcrawler]

Oh do composters really smell?? Had given these serious consideration as we like to be as 'eco' (ie cheap) as possible.

 

 

I don't think they are cheap

[wandering snail]

The 'villa' Separett loo hardly smells at all outside and is well designed so that all the liquid is separated from the 'other'unless you're anatomically challenged.

[Albion]

Oh do composters really smell?? Had given these serious consideration as we like to be as 'eco' (ie cheap) as possible.

 

I can only comment on one (make unknown) who I had the misfortune to have to moor near once at a rally. The smell from its vent pipe, wafting across adjacent boats, on occasions was stomach turning(no exaggeration). Other people report that they are OK. This composter throne was huge in size though as well. I can't help thinking that if they were that good then hire fleets would be using them by now. I would not ever have one, compared with a cassette toilet, for use on the UK system to be honest, but that's just my opinion.

Roger

 

They need to be set up right, and it can take a bit of trial and error to achieve that. They separate liquid and solid waste, but some of the liquid stays with the solid. The balance of liquid and solid has to be right for it to do the job properly - if not, they smell.

 

Lots of information out there. If you want one, research it carefully, and try to talk to some boaters who have them - including visiting their boat, if you can!

 

Cassette toilets are pretty stinky too. The good thing about the composting ones is that the smell goes to the outside ...

 

Exactly what I have said. It's a problem for others moored nearby.

Roger

[Mac of Cygnet]

 

Cassette toilets are pretty stinky too.

 

Well. Mine isn't (at all). What am I doing wrong?

[ymu]

Exactly what I have said. It's a problem for others moored nearby.

I wasn't being entirely serious with that comment. But it was weeks before I stopped gagging every time I used the porta potti, months before I stopped gagging at least daily, and two and a half years in, I still can't get closer than about 3 yards away from an Elsan point when it's in use. I'm working on it ...

 

I can't see why hire yards would prefer composting toilets though. The holding tanks are big enough to cope with most holidays, and they have their own pumpouts to do the job with (and often reciprocal arrangements with other yards should their customers need to pump out mid-trip). Composting toilets need a certain amount of maintenance which I'd think they'd be highly reluctant to trust their customers to sort out.

 

Well. Mine isn't (at all). What am I doing wrong?

You probably have the sense not to have an over-sensitive nose. Or you're German, and used to toilets which don't immediately immerse everything in water to block the smell.

 

The precise type of chemical seems to make a difference, but we can never find the same one twice anyway ...

 

Also, we're smokers and apparently this makes a difference. Someone emptied ours for us once and said "I didn't know you smoked" when they got back. Quite disconcerting ...

 

Or perhaps you have a proper cassette toilet and not a porta-potti.

Edited February 24, 2011 by ymu

[phantomlady]

I don't think they are cheap

 

No, I know they're quite expensive initially, but what I meant was that they don't need to be pumped out so often so cost less to run (in theory)

One of our things about whatever boat we get is to try to get our on-going costs down as much as possible.

[ymu]

No, I know they're quite expensive initially, but what I meant was that they don't need to be pumped out so often so cost less to run (in theory)

One of our things about whatever boat we get is to try to get our on-going costs down as much as possible.

Emptying a cassette is free. If you go for pump-out, make sure it's big enough to last if you get iced in for weeks on end. If it is big enough to last being iced in, it won't cost much to empty it on an annual basis because it'll only need doing every couple of months (which would cost £80-120/year).

 

Or go for something like the Thetford C-250 which is a cassette toilet which can also be connected to a holding tank. When the tank is full, you can use the cassette until you get to the next pump-out. Or you can use the cassette to save money and the holding tank when it is more convenient.

[Mac of Cygnet]

I

 

You probably have the sense not to have an over-sensitive nose. Or you're German, and used to toilets which don't immediately immerse everything in water to block the smell.

 

The precise type of chemical seems to make a difference, but we can never find the same one twice anyway ...

 

Also, we're smokers and apparently this makes a difference. Someone emptied ours for us once and said "I didn't know you smoked" when they got back. Quite disconcerting ...

 

Or perhaps you have a proper cassette toilet and not a porta-potti.

 

Such a confusing array of ideas here I hardly know where to start, but in reverse order:

 

I have a porta-potti.

 

Someone emptied your cassette for you VOLUNTARILY?

 

You're SMOKERS, and yet are sensitive to smells????????????

 

Yes the brand does make a difference.

 

I am not German.

 

Cigarette smoke can make my nose wrinkle and my stomach heave at 100 paces (see above)

 

Mac