How do you wire yours?

[Chris Pink]

That's the thing, to someone like myself, who likes vintage appliances that still have 5A plugs fitted, there could still be some confusion of the standards, I know it's unlikely that someone would have a vintage appliance collection on a boat, but you never know. 12v into a 240v device could be a hazard, but 240v into a 12v device is just an accident waiting to happen...

 

Like I say, I'm sure I read on here that someone used the earth terminal for one of the supply lines, thus reducing the risk of any cross-contamination of the voltages, I think I'll go search through my posts for that now...

 

Personally I'd still want to use the US style 12v sockets (as used in caravans, but they're just basically US plugs and sockets), but that's just my personal preference...

 

 

You've much more chance of frying a 12V appliance because of idiosyncratic wiring that you have of someone plugging in a 5A 240V appliance (when was the last time you saw one).

 

KISS. +ve to right-hand -ve to left hand is so universal a,s to me, to be considered a standard.

[mayalld]

You've much more chance of frying a 12V appliance because of idiosyncratic wiring that you have of someone plugging in a 5A 240V appliance (when was the last time you saw one).

 

KISS. +ve to right-hand -ve to left hand is so universal a,s to me, to be considered a standard.

 

Agreed. The consequences of each action are a factor though.

[ditchcrawler]

Its a very valid point about the danger of someone else taking 12 volt equipment and using it elsewhere, maybe without your knowledge.

When my father-in-law was alive he had a 12 volt hedge trimmer with a long red and black lead attached to it, with a crock clip on the end of each to connect it to a car battery. Some years after his death mum-in-law employed a gardener who couldn't get the hedge trimmer to work, so he removed the two crock clips and put the ends into a 13A plug top, plugged it into the mains to see if it would work like that.

There is nowt as strange as folk

[bottle]

Three pages on discussing how to make the wrong equipment foolproof if not idiot proof.

 

There is a 'standard' 12v socket and plug that connect positively to each other with a 'click' and is not interchangeable with any 240v socket/equipment

 

[David Schweizer]

OK, let me suggest a scenario...

 

You have a 12V table lamp, wired to a round plug. You tire of it, and discard it.

 

Somebody sees the discarded lamp, picks it up, and plugs it in at their pub.

Something very similar to that scenario actually happened to me recently.

 

Whilst sorting out some stuff in my late Father in Law's garage, I used a voltage continuity tester, which I assumed was 240 volt, to test a light fitting, wrong! it was 12volt. When I made contact, there was a loud pop and the lights went out.

 

Annoying, as I had to rewire a mains fuse in the half light, but Dangerous? not really

Edited January 31, 2011 by David Schweizer

[Barry]

wouldn't that be a Bsc in pedantology though....

 

Not quite correct - It would be a BSc in Pedantology

[alan_fincher]

Reminds me of the wonderful story about a man who rang the help desk of a major computer manufacturer complaining that his computer had ceased working. When asked if he could check the leads were correctly plugged in to the tower unit he replied, "I can't really tell, it's dark and we're in the middle of a power cut."

 

Apparently the help desk operator then asked if he still had the box the computer came in. When the complainant replied that he had, the operator suggested he put it back in the box and return it to them, as he was obviously too stupid to own a computer. The hapless operator was subsequently sacked for this.

If you have worked in the computer world it is almost inevitable that you will have had this story retold to you by the support person that "actually knew the person claimed to have said it", or something similar, (probably more than once!).

 

I have heard it as "definitely" credited to the Oracle Corporation, but it is more often told as having (I think) a Microsoft or Wordperfect origins.

 

Sadly, like s many of these good stories Snopes says it's not actually true.

 

He wanted to say something like that, (but didn't!....).

[Guest]

Not quite correct - It would be a BSc in Pedantology

 

You are hereby conferred with one...

 

Three pages on discussing how to make the wrong equipment foolproof if not idiot proof.

 

There is a 'standard' 12v socket and plug that connect positively to each other with a 'click' and is not interchangeable with any 240v socket/equipment

 

 

Indeed - but the reason we didn't like these when we were caravanners was the plugs and socket connections normally needed soldering which was a right faff.

 

 

 

 

,,

Edited January 31, 2011 by MJG

[ditchcrawler]

Something very similar to that scenario actually happened to me recently.

 

Whilst sorting out some stuff in my late Father in Law's garage, I used a voltage continuity tester, which I assumed was 240 volt, to test a light fitting, wrong! it was 12volt. When I made contact, there was a loud pop and the lights went out.

 

Annoying, as I had to rewire a mains fuse in the half light, but Dangerous? not really

If it was one of those terminal screwdriver type things with a small festoon lamp in it that looks like a "neon Tester" but with a wire sticking out of the end you could easily have killed yourself.

[David Schweizer]

If it was one of those terminal screwdriver type things with a small festoon lamp in it that looks like a "neon Tester" but with a wire sticking out of the end you could easily have killed yourself.

Well it wasn't, and I didn't. Anyway, I would never use anthing to test mains electricity that was not well insulated.

[Doorman]

I think you overestimate the intelligence of some people.

 

I used to own electronics shops (a bit like Maplin). You would be amazed at how many times we were asked for certain leads that simply would never exist. My favourite request was for (not just on one occasion either)...

 

A "scart to 13amp plug"

 

I am not making this up.

 

Broken finger edit.

 

Anyone who's ever had the privilege to work with the general public would agree. It's an education in itself. In fact, there should be a post on here dealing with the topic of 'what's the most unusual thing you were ever asked for', it would be as funny as the famous insurance claim stories.

 

Mike

[Dominic M]

If you have worked in the computer world it is almost inevitable that you will have had this story retold to you by the support person that "actually knew the person claimed to have said it", or something similar, (probably more than once!).

 

I have heard it as "definitely" credited to the Oracle Corporation, but it is more often told as having (I think) a Microsoft or Wordperfect origins.

 

Sadly, like s many of these good stories Snopes says it's not actually true.

 

He wanted to say something like that, (but didn't!....).

Yeah, but I've never let the truth get in the way of a good story. I'm a boat broker, fer chrissakes!

[honey ryder]

Ive got this type of socket throughout my boat. It was the first time I encountered it. its a much more sensible plug size.

i wish this was standard issue in cars instead of the cigarette lighter size.

 

my last boat came with 12v sockets of the 3 round pin type, half the size of a mains plug.

was really neat, but I just had to have a mini plug wired to an adapter for the cigarette lighter type of plug.

 

the caravan I stay in has the american flat pin style of 12v plug.

 

why isnt there a universal standard?

 

 

Three pages on discussing how to make the wrong equipment foolproof if not idiot proof.

 

There is a 'standard' 12v socket and plug that connect positively to each other with a 'click' and is not interchangeable with any 240v socket/equipment

 

 

 

--------------

Honey Ryder

--------------

Canvas repairs and boat curtains

--------------

[smileypete]

Three pages on discussing how to make the wrong equipment foolproof if not idiot proof.

 

There is a 'standard' 12v socket and plug that connect positively to each other with a 'click' and is not interchangeable with any 240v socket/equipment

 

+1

 

Widely known as Hella or Din connectors.

 

cheers,

Pete.

[bottle]

SNIP>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

 

 

Indeed - but the reason we didn't like these when we were caravanners was the plugs and socket connections normally needed soldering which was a right faff.

 

 

 

I have never come across any with solder terminals, always screw, not saying you are wrong in the ones you had.

 

+1

 

Widely known as Hella or Din connectors.

 

cheers,

Pete.

 

Yes, my slip-up in not putting that in

[twocvbloke]

You've much more chance of frying a 12V appliance because of idiosyncratic wiring that you have of someone plugging in a 5A 240V appliance (when was the last time you saw one).

 

This morning, I can see it from where I am sat right now...

 

Like I said before, people like myself who are in to vintage appliances see the 3-pin BS546 plug as a 240v outlet, be it 2 Amp, 5 Amp or 15 Amp, it's a 240v spec made for 240v mains...

 

Assume I never knew about the 12v use, and I picked up a vintage looking lamp from a car boot sale because I saw it had a 5A plug, I'd assume it was made and wired for that spec, came without bulb, so I'd most likely pop in a bulb and plug it in to test it, and if it's wired up wrong (for 240v) then I'd be in trouble, because someone decided that they wanted to wire it up to suit themselves, and I get 240v across the heart and I'm done...

 

I do think there needs to be standardisation applied to 12v electrics on leisure vehicles (trailer tent, caravan, motorhome, boat, etc.), I see that snap-in DIN plug as the perfect standard, cos fair enough the US-Style socket could be seen to an american (and we know how bright they can be!!) and assume it is a 120v outlet, but the DIN socket, well, it's perfect, it may be open to small fingers, but 12v isn't anywhere near powerful enough to cause an electric shock, so is safe in itself...

 

One can dream though, can't he?

[mayalld]

This morning, I can see it from where I am sat right now...

 

Like I said before, people like myself who are in to vintage appliances see the 3-pin BS546 plug as a 240v outlet, be it 2 Amp, 5 Amp or 15 Amp, it's a 240v spec made for 240v mains...

 

Assume I never knew about the 12v use, and I picked up a vintage looking lamp from a car boot sale because I saw it had a 5A plug, I'd assume it was made and wired for that spec, came without bulb, so I'd most likely pop in a bulb and plug it in to test it, and if it's wired up wrong (for 240v) then I'd be in trouble, because someone decided that they wanted to wire it up to suit themselves, and I get 240v across the heart and I'm done...

 

 

Actually, you would be in more trouble if it was wired up RIGHT for 240V...

 

If it was wired up N/E for 12V, then there would be no connection to the live pin, and no danger when you tried it in a 240V socket.

[twocvbloke]

Actually, you would be in more trouble if it was wired up RIGHT for 240V...

 

If it was wired up N/E for 12V, then there would be no connection to the live pin, and no danger when you tried it in a 240V socket.

 

Okay, you go take a bare Earth wire and a bare neutral wire, hold one in each hand and tell me you're not killed...

 

AC current works both ways, 25 times a second "Live" is positive, and the other 25 times a second, "Neutral" is Positive, that is why it is called Alternating current...

[Keeping Up]

Okay, you go take a bare Earth wire and a bare neutral wire, hold one in each hand and tell me you're not killed...

 

AC current works both ways, 25 times a second "Live" is positive, and the other 25 times a second, "Neutral" is Positive, that is why it is called Alternating current...

 

Yes I'd happily do that and I know I wouldn't be killed.

 

Your explanation is simply wrong. 50 times a second the live wire is positive of the neutral wire and at the same time positive of the earth wire. 50 times a second the live wire is negative of the neutral wire and at the same time negative of the earth wire. The whole time, the neutral wire is at almost the same potential as the earth wire.

 

Disclaimer: My statement above does not apply under fault conditions, nor does it apply to three-phase electrical supplies, nor does it necessarily apply in countries outside the UK. But on a fault-free UK domestic 240v ac single-phase supply it is absolutely guaranteed.

[mayalld]

Okay, you go take a bare Earth wire and a bare neutral wire, hold one in each hand and tell me you're not killed...

 

AC current works both ways, 25 times a second "Live" is positive, and the other 25 times a second, "Neutral" is Positive, that is why it is called Alternating current...

 

What utter crap!

 

Neutral is pretty much at earth potential (indeed in many installations, Earth and neutral are bonded at the consumer unit)

[twocvbloke]

Okay, if it's utter crap, then why does AC flow one way, then back the other, alternating between the two? The electricity has to flow two ways in order for AC to work, otherwise, it's just DC...

 

Fair enough, I got the 25/50 thing wrong, but I'm more used to just wiring up (safely with the correct connectors for the voltage!!!) than messing with the frequencies and al that...

Edited February 1, 2011 by twocvbloke

[RLWP]

Okay, if it's utter crap, then why does AC flow one way, then back the other, alternating between the two? The electricity has to flow two ways in order for AC to work, otherwise, it's just DC...

 

<snip>

 

Are you asking about voltage or current? Two completely different things!

 

Richard

[twocvbloke]

Are you asking about voltage or current? Two completely different things!

 

Richard

 

To be honest, I'm referring to the use of inappropriate connectors for 12vDC and not using a standardised wiring practice, and if the connectors were used for their original purpose when wired up for the non-standard use that they could potentially be a danger...

[RLWP]

To be honest, I'm referring to the use of inappropriate connectors for 12vDC and not using a standardised wiring practice, and if the connectors were used for their original purpose when wired up for the non-standard use that they could potentially be a danger...

 

So you are now OK with holding the Neutral and Earth on a 240V AC system without dying? Or would you rather just move on

 

Richard

[twocvbloke]

So you are now OK with holding the Neutral and Earth on a 240V AC system without dying? Or would you rather just move on

 

Richard

 

Having been shocked when doing that in a properly wired up house, no, I wouldn't be okay with that...

 

We can move on though...