breach responsibility

[Ally]

Following an email from someone, who had seen something elsewhere about a possible local breach in the making, I am wondering if anyone knows who's responsibility it is if there is a breach. If such an occurance were to empty a marina, and potentially cause damage to boats in it, would the boat owners/BW/the Marina hold responsibility for that damage, or would it be an 'act of god'? Would insurance pay out or should there be a stop gate in place to maintain the Marina water levels?

Any thoughts?

[churchward]

Any Marina agreement I have seen will exempt the Marina from responsibility of changing water levels and will often contain a statement to the effect that it is the boat owners responsibility to make sure the boat is secured in a way that can cope with a change in water level.

 

BW has responsibility for maintenance of the waterways to remain navigable however I don't know if this will automatically make them liable for any damage occurring to a boat as a consequence of water level drop. I suspect all claims would have to go through the owners insurer.

[RLWP]

Where is this potential breach and has it been reported to BW?

 

Richard

[steve hayes]

Where is this potential breach and has it been reported to BW?

 

Richard

 

I might be wrong (usually am) but this is on NBW at present and a comment by soarpoint about Loughborough

 

http://www.narrowboatworld.com/index.php/component/ccboard/?view=postlist&forum=1&topic=360&post=1926

[MartinC]

Very interesting legal points here.

 

As I understand it almost all marinas are obliged to pay money to BW for "use" of canal water (the exception is, I assume, those few marinas where you only need a licence when you venture off the marina). If BW fail to take reasonable steps to prevent loss of water the question of negligence arises in connection with a service provided for reward and liability for damage arising directly from that negligence. Even if you claim on your own policy your insurers will have subrogation rights.

 

Looking at the picture overall, we need to bear in mind that we could be in a spiral here. A lot of BW's insurance is on a self insured basis through a company that they set up in Dublin. Therefore this just moves money around in BW. Even for normally insured risks, claims are going to be reflected in future premiums. To sum up we have a domino effect here. Reduced maintainance, more breaches, more damages, less money for maintainance, until we have no canals left.

[Josher]

Where is this potential breach ?

Richard

 

That's the spirit! I'm right behind you Richard!

 

KING HENRY V

Once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more;

Or close the wall up with our English dead.

In peace there's nothing so becomes a man

As modest stillness and humility:

But when the blast of war blows in our ears,

Then imitate the action of the tiger;

Stiffen the sinews, summon up the blood,

Disguise fair nature with hard-favour'd rage;

Then lend the eye a terrible aspect;

Let pry through the portage of the head

Like the brass cannon; let the brow o'erwhelm it

As fearfully as doth a galled rock

O'erhang and jutty his confounded base,

Swill'd with the wild and wasteful ocean.

Now set the teeth and stretch the nostril wide,

Hold hard the breath and bend up every spirit

To his full height. On, on, you noblest English.

Whose blood is fet from fathers of war-proof!

Fathers that, like so many Alexanders,

Have in these parts from morn till even fought

And sheathed their swords for lack of argument:

Dishonour not your mothers; now attest

That those whom you call'd fathers did beget you.

Be copy now to men of grosser blood,

And teach them how to war. And you, good yeoman,

Whose limbs were made in England, show us here

The mettle of your pasture; let us swear

That you are worth your breeding; which I doubt not;

For there is none of you so mean and base,

That hath not noble lustre in your eyes.

I see you stand like greyhounds in the slips,

Straining upon the start. The game's afoot:

Follow your spirit, and upon this charge

Cry 'God for Harry, England, and Saint George!'

 

They don't write them like that any more!

[MartinC]

 

Once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more;

Or close the wall up with our English dead.

 

 

Bit worried about any breach on the Mon & Brec!

[RLWP]

That's the spirit! I'm right behind you Richard!

 

KING HENRY V

Once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more;

<snip>

Cry 'God for Harry, England, and Saint George!'

 

They don't write them like that any more!

 

I'm more in the "gentlemen in England now a-bed" category myself...

 

Richard

[benfordboy]

I might be wrong (usually am) but this is on NBW at present and a comment by soarpoint about Loughborough

 

 

Not having been down to Loughborough recently I cant comment on the state of the bank / potential of a breech, however there are stop gates on the canal length between Pillings Marina & Loughborough so stop planks would not be required at Pillings Entrance (This would rely on action by BW to close said gates however !)

[boatyboy]

Ever so slightly off topic.but could have similar consequences.Like so many people we were stuck in the same place for a total of 6 weeks.And could not help noticing a few of the boats moored with us running their engines in gear for hours on end. I do know that people with vintage engines feel that it's good for their engines to run under a certain amount of strain. Fair enough!!Still not good for the canal bottom though. And most of the vintage engine boats have quite large props too.

But why do so many do it with modern engines.Surely this does the canal bed no good at all.Seeing the plume of silt(puddle)coming out with the prop wash is surely washing it away.feel free to correct me if i'm wrong on either issue.

Therefore contributing to a breach in the future.

Ok i'll get my coat now.....Dave

Edited January 25, 2011 by boatyboy

[Ally]

Where is this potential breach and has it been reported to BW?

 

Richard

All I have heard is that it is between Loughborough and Pillings, and as far as I am aware it has been reported. Apparently, as mentioned, there are stop planks on the canal on that side of Loughborough, and I now understand Pillings also have stop planks. What systems are in place for their timely use I don't know however.

I am guessing this is a potential issue for all marina's on canals though, and was interested to know if anyone was aware of the legal/insurance issues.

[Proper Job]

Ever so slightly off topic.but could have similar consequences.Like so many people we were stuck in the same place for a total of 6 weeks.And could not help noticing a few of the boats moored with us running their engines in gear for hours on end. I do know that people with vintage engines feel that it's good for their engines to run under a certain amount of strain. Fair enough!!Still not good for the canal bottom though. And most of the vintage engine boats have quite large props too.

But why do so many do it with modern engines.Surely this does the canal bed no good at all.Seeing the plume of silt(puddle)coming out with the prop wash is surely washing it away.feel free to correct me if i'm wrong on either issue.

Therefore contributing to a breach in the future.

Ok i'll get my coat now.....Dave

Running your engine in gear while moored is in breach of BW byelaws

[mrsmelly]

Running your engine in gear while moored is in breach of BW byelaws

 

 

And totaly unecessary............

[boatyboy]

And totaly unecessary............

Ah.......I'm glad i was not shot down in flames with my theory.Surely this is a real waste of precious fuel too.

[MartinC]

 

I am guessing this is a potential issue for all marina's on canals though, and was interested to know if anyone was aware of the legal/insurance issues.

 

See my post 10.52am today. If you are thinking of any liability on the actual marina, I would expect at the best (to comply with "Unfair Contract Terms") there would only be liability if it was proved that the marina were negligent, e.g.if they had advance warning and had time to put planks in but failed to do so, an unlikely situation.

[magpie patrick]

And totaly unecessary............

 

It's in breach of our marina rules too, and they are more watchful. My engineer ran the engine hard in gear to test something, and Bob wandered along and asked us to stop. So the engineer siad "lets put the kettle on and take her out then"...

[Ally]

See my post 10.52am today. If you are thinking of any liability on the actual marina, I would expect at the best (to comply with "Unfair Contract Terms") there would only be liability if it was proved that the marina were negligent, e.g.if they had advance warning and had time to put planks in but failed to do so, an unlikely situation.

this is currently just a 'what if' question...and will hopefully remain that way !..it does seem to me, morally if not legally that if BW are aware of a problem arising, but do nothing about it, they could have some responsibility.

[twocvbloke]

I'd be interested to know whose fault it would be if one were to accidentally walk into the hole in the towpath on the L&L in Nelson (next to the Reedyford Road bridge), could be a real money spinner...

 

It's been getting bigger and bigger over the past few years since BW pulled up a tree that was holding it all together securely...

Edited January 26, 2011 by twocvbloke