Considering boat purchase

[Rob Gee]

Dear All

 

I realise this topic has probably been done to death, but in the case of values I suppose there's no substitute for up to date information and comments.

 

Basically I am considering buying a narrow boat, primarily for leisure use although I'd like one large enough to use as a mid-week liveaboard if need be. I live near the Leeds and Liverpool canal which I believe limits me to 60 feet in length so I'd thought somewhere between 50 and 60 foot in length.

 

I don't want to be a "lone helmsman" therefore I also thought a semi traditional or cruiser rear end.

 

Sadly I do have a limited budget of around 25-30k. However my enquiries so far have led me to believe this is quite realistic, particularly if I am OK to get a vessel which might benefit from some cosmetic improvements. I am very skilled when it comes to DIY also I work for a diesel fuel injection specialist so engine work/maintenance is not an issue.

 

I know its a bit of a "how long is a peice of string" type post but if anyone has any "do's and don't" or any advice of any nature then I'd be very grateful for all info received.

 

So far I have viewed two boats, one was sold subject to survey and another looked very decent but I feel I'd like to view more before making a decision. The second boat had a hull survey carried out 3 years ago, would another one be required after just 3 years or can I "take their word for it" so to speak. I took some pictures of the boat and would be happy to post a link if appropriate?

 

Many thanks

 

Rob

[ymu]

Always get your own hull survey done, and choose your own surveyor. They can do a valuation survey as well, if you want.

 

You should find plenty in that price range, especially if you can do a bit of fixing up yourself. You'll get more for your money with an older hull, but do make sure it's still in good nick. The survey will generally pay for itself in either saving you an expensive mistake, or providing ammunition to negotiate the price down.

[bottle]

Hi Rob and Welcome.

 

 

So far I have viewed two boats, one was sold subject to survey Always advised on here and another looked very decent but I feel I'd like to view more before making a decision. A very good idea it is said that the boat will find you, aword of warning though, your head must be in charge of your heart, easy to say but hard to do. The second boat had a hull survey carried out 3 years ago, That was three years ago a lot can happen in three years would another one be required after just 3 years My opinion yes and not only a hull survey but whole survey. there are lots of things inside boats that at best may be 'dodgy' to down right dangerous or can I "take their word for it" so to speak. No, they are selling the boat, they are not looking after your welfare. I took some pictures of the boat and would be happy to post a link if appropriate?

 

Edit: speeling and wrong sintacks.

Edited January 10, 2011 by bottle

[Fred_Smith]

In similar position, I have found Apollo Duck is useful as benchmark as to what your money will buy

[NB Lola]

Get an engine survey too, very important.

[twbm]

Maybe a daft question, but have you cruised or holidayed on a boat before? If not hire one for a couple of days to be sure you're cosy in the metal box. Use the opportunity to observe whether you need a full length bed or can get away with something a bit shorter, how you feel about the room and equipment available in the shower, loo and kitchen etc. and if you can live without guaranteed TV coverage. All that will give you some benchmarks for what you want in the way of layout and facilities. If you are sticking to the L&L don't forget you could go wide, if you don't want to get past Preston Brook.

[Albion]

snipped

 

Basically I am considering buying a narrow boat, primarily for leisure use although I'd like one large enough to use as a mid-week liveaboard if need be. I live near the Leeds and Liverpool canal which I believe limits me to 60 feet in length so I'd thought somewhere between 50 and 60 foot in length.

 

Rob

 

You can get up to about 62ft across the L&L with care BUT the longer you go the more you expose the bow and stern to gushers from the gates and quoins etc. When bringing Albion (59 ft) up and down, to and fro from Skipton I had the bow rope washed off the front deck at the Bingley 5 rise on two occasions and at the Wigan flight I had to keep the (trad style) stern doors closed behind me to ward off gushers going down. I think it might be advisable, especially with the way that maintenance is likely to go in future, to not push towards the very longest as a choice........unless you come up with a dream boat for nothing of course and then go for it

Seriously, it is a genuine consideration based on what has happened to me and the way that I fear system maintenance is likely to go.

Roger

[David Mack]

In similar position, I have found Apollo Duck is useful as benchmark as to what your money will buy

 

Although bear in mind that some of the boats on the Duck are way overpriced! (As discussed here from time to time)

 

David

 

Sadly I do have a limited budget of around 25-30k. However my enquiries so far have led me to believe this is quite realistic, particularly if I am OK to get a vessel which might benefit from some cosmetic improvements. I am very skilled when it comes to DIY also I work for a diesel fuel injection specialist so engine work/maintenance is not an issue.

 

For your budget there is quite a lot about. Be prepared to make offers at a third or more off the asking price - you might strike lucky, and it increases your range to boats priced up to 40-45k.

 

Be realistic about what you can repair or replace easily or cheaply, and what is beyond your skills or wallet. If the hull is worn or corroded down to 4mm or less you may have problems getting insurance, and you could end up looking at spending more on replating than the boat is worth. Hence an out of water hull survey is worth the cost. On the other hand if the hull and superstructure are OK and the fitout is basically sound, but perhaps looking somewhat tired, and you have the necessary woodworking skills, you could look at doing an interior refit as time and money permit.

 

David

[PhilR]

Rob

It is a buyers market at the moment. I am sure you will find something suitable. Be prepared to haggle on price,and as others have said get a survey. Don't be put off by the age of a boat if it is in good condition

 

Happy hunting

[Rob Gee]

For your budget there is quite a lot about. Be prepared to make offers at a third or more off the asking price - you might strike lucky, and it increases your range to boats priced up to 40-45k.

 

On the other hand if the hull and superstructure are OK and the fitout is basically sound, but perhaps looking somewhat tired, and you have the necessary woodworking skills, you could look at doing an interior refit as time and money permit.

 

David

 

Thank you all so much for the helpful comments and advise. The second boat I looked was very much as mentioned above, all looked sound but really the interior would have benefited from a makeover, plus the exterior was a fairly bland colour. It was a 2003 cruiser sterned 4/6 berth 60 foot, advertised at 35k. New everspacher heater and batteries last season.

 

As for the width I think I'll stick with narrow as there is a chance I'd like the option of mooring on the Macclesfield or Peak Forest canals, and I'd love to do the cheshire ring too.

 

Now the hull survery did pose a slight issue. With both of these boats, they were a good days sailing from a marina with lifting facilities. The broker said the options were either pay him his hourly rate to sail to and from the marina OR get a mobile crane on site to lift her out the water. Either option was not terribly cheap, is this a reasonable stance, or should I try and get the seller to meet me part way on this cost?

 

Oh and one (not overly pretty) subject is that of on board toilet facilities? My first thoughts were a pump out might be superior but after hearing comments on problems if they freeze up, I wondered if anyone had any thoughts on this?

 

Once thank you all kindly for being so helpful.

 

Rob

[ymu]

That sounds unreasonable, on the costs for craning out side. We paid £168 for craning out, but the owner took responsibility for getting the boat to where it could be craned.

 

There's pros and cons for different types of toilet. Unless you have very strong feelings either way, it might be worth keeping an open mind when it comes to buying a boat. Pump outs are a bit pleasanter to use and empty, but it can be a long round trip - and costly - to empty it and you may need an emergency alternative if you get iced in or cannot pump out for some reason. The Thetford C-250 is a cassette toilet with pump out tank connection, so you can have the best of both worlds.

[RLWP]

Thank you all so much for the helpful comments and advise. The second boat I looked was very much as mentioned above, all looked sound but really the interior would have benefited from a makeover, plus the exterior was a fairly bland colour. It was a 2003 cruiser sterned 4/6 berth 60 foot, advertised at 35k. New everspacher heater and batteries last season.

 

As for the width I think I'll stick with narrow as there is a chance I'd like the option of mooring on the Macclesfield or Peak Forest canals, and I'd love to do the cheshire ring too.

 

Now the hull survery did pose a slight issue. With both of these boats, they were a good days sailing from a marina with lifting facilities. The broker said the options were either pay him his hourly rate to sail to and from the marina OR get a mobile crane on site to lift her out the water. Either option was not terribly cheap, is this a reasonable stance, or should I try and get the seller to meet me part way on this cost?

 

Oh and one (not overly pretty) subject is that of on board toilet facilities? My first thoughts were a pump out might be superior but after hearing comments on problems if they freeze up, I wondered if anyone had any thoughts on this?

 

Once thank you all kindly for being so helpful.

 

Rob

 

Firstly, I've only ever heard of one pump-out freezing, and that still seems very mysterious

 

Secondly, this craning out thing is getting too hard. Unless you really want that boat, I'd find a more cooperative broker

 

Richard

[jelunga]

Firstly, I've only ever heard of one pump-out freezing, and that still seems very mysterious

 

Secondly, this craning out thing is getting too hard. Unless you really want that boat, I'd find a more cooperative broker

 

Richard

 

Yes, find a broker with proper facilities! When we were buying our boat, the first one was moored some way from the Brokers, who were in a marina. For the survey, it was the sellers / brokers responsibility to get the boat to a place where the survey was able to be carried out. I am not sure who moved the boat I was having surveyed, the owner or the broker, but I had nothing to do with it. I just paid for the survey. Which was well worth the money, because it threw up so many problems I withdrew from the sale!!

[deletedaccount]

Be aware that you can strip 10-20% from most asking prices without trouble.

[Albion]

It does appear to be a real buyer's market at the moment. I've never seen so many 'price reduced' banners on displays of brokerage boats in the magazines, so I think you are in a very strong position. It might be quite possible under these circumstances to not rule out boats slightly over your immediate price range and put in an offer (subject to survey of course).

Roger

[jonkil]

Thank you all for your answers.

Like the OP, I am also in the position to buy.

Looking at different boats, mind has changed a few times. Looked at NB, wide's and trying to see the virtues of both.

Currently based in Ireland but looking at retiring to the waterways of the UK, still 2 years before I can do so.

Thanks again for your help, and thanks to the OP for asking the question.

 

John

[onthecut]

Hi Rob.

 

Go and look at as many boats as you can. No two are the same and you will see ideas that you hadn't even thought of, along with things you wouldn't want at any price. Also, if you have a few days to spare, hire a boat now-ish. Cold (relatively), wet, short days --- then you will see if it really is for you (anyone can enjoy it on a warm summer's day). It really is only when using a boat that you find the things that work, or don't work for you.

On the endlessly controversial toilet topic, having had pretty much all the options over time, my vote is for a pump out, with remote tank and manually flushed / pumped pan.

 

Mike.

[robdalej]

Just noticed you post re buyig a boat. The boat you described as 1 2003 at that price seems a little cheap to me for that year,means it could be oe of the lower end of the market with cheaper/basic fit out.imo it is always better to look for a boat with an established name , although they may be older for the amount of money you have available they keep their value better. I have an idea of the broker you are mentioning and I would have thought had you suggested that the vendor pays for the the cost of taking the boat to the slipway and back and you pay for the survey, he should have been willing to put that to the seller., if the seller refuses walk away there are plenty of boats for sale. As also mentioned the advertised price is not always the price you will pay, Some people have an inflated idea of what their boats are worth. As to pump out versus cassette we have had both in various boats, at the moment we have p/o , I think the one thing to consider is how far away are you from the nearest p/o station, if you ate a good distance away then a cassette may be better for you. good luck