Generators

[Joshd]

Hello there

 

This is not to with generators onboard boats but with houses and was told this was a good place to come to ask for help.

Basically a house we are moving in to electricity is ran by generators and we have been looking around and the cheapest it would run on would be £15 a day which is a lot of money.

So i am need of people own experience which solutions you have come up to overcome problems or make them run cheaper. Possibly like looking in to battery packs which can be charged then run the house off them while the generator is switched off to save money.

 

So any help would be much appreciated.

 

P.S. On a different note if anybody has had experience with wind turbines please can you say so as this is another serious thing we are thinking about i just need to know more.

[Robin2]

Hello there

 

This is not to with generators onboard boats but with houses and was told this was a good place to come to ask for help.

Basically a house we are moving in to electricity is ran by generators and we have been looking around and the cheapest it would run on would be £15 a day which is a lot of money.

So i am need of people own experience which solutions you have come up to overcome problems or make them run cheaper. Possibly like looking in to battery packs which can be charged then run the house off them while the generator is switched off to save money.

 

So any help would be much appreciated.

 

P.S. On a different note if anybody has had experience with wind turbines please can you say so as this is another serious thing we are thinking about i just need to know more.

 

What sort of generator have you in mind, how did you arrive at the figure of £15 per day and how much electricity (kWhrs) do you need each day?

[Chalky]

It'd be worth looking a solar panels as well as a generator. If you search the forum you'll find advice on solar panels, wind turbines, small generators, batteries - what to use and how to charge them, battery monitors (it'll be a smart gauge). There's also a useful section on how to conserve power. Just don't get in to a discussion about the merits of different toilet technologies!

[Justme]

Post all your specs & I will look it over.

 

(genny name & rated power, fuel type, amount of power you expect to use, when you expect to use it, budget for system add ons & any think else you can think of)

 

We have been living off grid for 2 1/2 years using PV & genny power via a bat bank & inverter.

[mrsmelly]

Hello there

 

This is not to with generators onboard boats but with houses and was told this was a good place to come to ask for help.

Basically a house we are moving in to electricity is ran by generators and we have been looking around and the cheapest it would run on would be £15 a day which is a lot of money.

So i am need of people own experience which solutions you have come up to overcome problems or make them run cheaper. Possibly like looking in to battery packs which can be charged then run the house off them while the generator is switched off to save money.

 

So any help would be much appreciated.

 

P.S. On a different note if anybody has had experience with wind turbines please can you say so as this is another serious thing we are thinking about i just need to know more.

 

Hi

Hope we can help but first you must realise it is going to be more expensive whatever methods you use than being plugged into mains electric/gas etc, as boaters we accept that our chosen lifestyle is BETTER than living in a house but certainly NOT cheaper..........

[Robbo]

Basically a house we are moving in to electricity is ran by generators and we have been looking around and the cheapest it would run on would be £15 a day which is a lot of money.

 

How are you calculating this? Just making sure your not using DERV diesel (presuming the genny is diesel) prices!

 

If it runs on diesel it may/should run on kerosene which can be delivered (min 500litres) which is cheaper than red diesel.

[bottle]

It will cost but doesn't everything.

 

You could always go to one of the specialists.

 

http://www.onboardenergy.com/ (they do houses a well)

 

I have no connection whatsoever with the company other than as a customer.

 

Edit: speeeeling mistake

Edited December 28, 2010 by bottle

[charles123]

Hello there

 

This is not to with generators onboard boats but with houses and was told this was a good place to come to ask for help.

Basically a house we are moving in to electricity is ran by generators and we have been looking around and the cheapest it would run on would be £15 a day which is a lot of money.

So i am need of people own experience which solutions you have come up to overcome problems or make them run cheaper. Possibly like looking in to battery packs which can be charged then run the house off them while the generator is switched off to save money.

 

So any help would be much appreciated.

 

P.S. On a different note if anybody has had experience with wind turbines please can you say so as this is another serious thing we are thinking about i just need to know more.

 

Well good for you that you have a house where you generate your own power but why complain at the cost of doing so when presumably you had the choice of having a place to live that is not using conventional means of obtaining power in the first place?

 

Charles

[Joshd]

I came to arrive at that figure as it was a guideline from an expert.

 

I do like the sound of running on kersone and what are the rough prices on it.

 

The generator is a stephill generator s6000d very reliable.

 

It should be putting out around 5kw plus. One suggestion was that we ran it during the day and charged lesiure batteries at the same time then switch off the gene overnight and run on the battery packs. Which also in the future could be connected up to a turbine.

 

Well Charles to me the way that seemed to read was you been very grooty towards me. I am purely asking for advice as we are possbly moving in to this house which is rented and has no mains power or gas. Plus i am not complaining at the cost i am just stating that it is a lot.

 

Plus to everyone else thanks for the help so far and i will have a read about.

[jelunga]

I came to arrive at that figure as it was a guideline from an expert.

 

I do like the sound of running on kersone and what are the rough prices on it.

 

The generator is a stephill generator s6000d very reliable.

 

It should be putting out around 5kw plus. One suggestion was that we ran it during the day and charged lesiure batteries at the same time then switch off the gene overnight and run on the battery packs. Which also in the future could be connected up to a turbine.

 

Well Charles to me the way that seemed to read was you been very grooty towards me. I am purely asking for advice as we are possbly moving in to this house which is rented and has no mains power or gas. Plus i am not complaining at the cost i am just stating that it is a lot.

 

Plus to everyone else thanks for the help so far and i will have a read about.

 

Another place to look is the Marlec web site. They make the Rutland wind generators and also do Solar Panels.

IRL is :- http://www.marlec.co.uk/

[nb Innisfree]

Beware, 28sec heating oil (kerosene/paraffin) is not a substitute for red diesel, kerosene lacks lubrication for injector pumps.

[Chalky]

Have a look at http://www.scoraigwind.com/ for details about wind turbines. Lots about site suitability as well as plans to build one if you've got the skills required.

[Robin2]

Don't even think about buying solar panels or a wind turbine until you have carefully worked out the cost of diesel generation. The up-front costs of renewable energy are very high. I would be very surprised if a wind generator would pay for itself unless you are in a very exposed place and/or need very little electricity. The problem is that wind generators need to be very very big to generate decent amounts of power. And I suspect solar panels are most useful for keeping batteries topped up while you are away and not using electricity. You mentioned that you will be renting the house. You might also want to bear in mind that renewable energy systems can take years to pay for themselves and if you don't stay in the house long enough you would not benefit from the investment.

 

Also, whatever option you choose, if you decide on battery storage don't underestimate the cost and inconvenience of a proper regime to keep them in reasonable condition. Make sure you know how do do this and that you will in fact do it before investing. Batteries will need to get a full charge every week or fortnight and a full charge will probably take 6 hours or so. Also you must be careful not to discharge them too deeply - 50% is a good rule of thumb. It will be tempting to watch TV for another couple of hours even though the battery is low, or to defer the long charge for another day or two - which stretches into a month.

 

Having said that I suspect your most economical option would be the diesel generator coupled with suitable battery storage. I would be inclined to run the small loads from the battery (via an inverter, presumably) and run the generator for a time each day to keep the batteries charged to a reasonable level(with a full charge every week or so). Then I would run the generator whenever I needed to operate an appliance with a large load such as a washing machine or microwave.

 

Before doing any of this you will need to make a list of your appliances, how much power they use and how long you use them for each day. It would probably make sense to replace anything you use a lot with a newer version that uses less power if that option exists (eg computer or TV).

[blodger]

Whilst Robin2's post I can fundamentally agree with, one problem is having all eggs in one basket.

The fact that you are having to use so much fuel makes it more economic to err into the green side of things a bit.

A 100 watt solar panel 'only' costs 200.00 and you can always take it with you when you move.

Likwise a DIY wind charger or resell it for its components.

I would not go overboard with solar or wind but enough to sustain your batts when you are away maybe?

[blackrose]

Well Charles to me the way that seemed to read was you been very grooty towards me. I am purely asking for advice as we are possbly moving in to this house which is rented and has no mains power or gas. Plus i am not complaining at the cost i am just stating that it is a lot.

 

Yes Charles, stop being so grooty!

[blodger]

Hello there

 

This is not to with generators onboard boats but with houses and was told this was a good place to come to ask for help.

Basically a house we are moving in to electricity is ran by generators and we have been looking around and the cheapest it would run on would be £15 a day which is a lot of money.

So i am need of people own experience which solutions you have come up to overcome problems or make them run cheaper. Possibly like looking in to battery packs which can be charged then run the house off them while the generator is switched off to save money.

 

So any help would be much appreciated.

 

P.S. On a different note if anybody has had experience with wind turbines please can you say so as this is another serious thing we are thinking about i just need to know more.

One poster has suggested more modern energy efficient appliances. I would add it might be worth looking at 12v lighting, LEDs and SMAs, which give more light for the energy dissipated so that you have the battery supply option without the necessity of genny running concurrently. In many ways it would make sense to run the house as one would a narrowboat but I guess some (landlord's) fixtures are there and need to be used or worked around which is why you are looking at a heavy duty genny?

[Lady Muck]

I wouldn't be without solar panels personally, yes they are expensive, but they work very well for us, in the summer, when we are away on our boat and off grid. It's not necessarily which is cheapest, it is which is most convenient. Panels are pretty much maintenance free, plus there is no constant schlepping to the petrol station to buy more fuel. We have a genny but don't use it much because the panels provide what we need (that's in the summer months, you don't exactly get much charge this time of year - the December sun seems to have about as much power as a 40 watt lightbulb lol).

 

As Blodger suggests it is well worth switching to more energy efficient appliances and led lights.

[Robin2]

I wouldn't be without solar panels personally, yes they are expensive, but they work very well for us, in the summer, when we are away on our boat and off grid. It's not necessarily which is cheapest, it is which is most convenient. Panels are pretty much maintenance free, plus there is no constant schlepping to the petrol station to buy more fuel. We have a genny but don't use it much because the panels provide what we need (that's in the summer months, you don't exactly get much charge this time of year - the December sun seems to have about as much power as a 40 watt lightbulb lol).

 

As Blodger suggests it is well worth switching to more energy efficient appliances and led lights.

 

I have some "good" led lights and I like the fact that they use very little electricity but they have a very poor light output compared with halogen bulbs so be sure to try one to see how you like it before spending a lot of money.

Edited December 29, 2010 by Robin2

[nb Innisfree]

This is my slant on it.

 

We use 1.5 to 2kwh per day on our nb so, IMO, using that as a guide the simplest and most reliable system in terms of guaranteed output would be a 3kva inverter + a 3 stage charger or if you prefer an inverter/charger combo and, say, 4 to 10 x110 ah batteries. Charging via a petrol 2kva digital genny (Kipor do one for approx £400) is probably the best way to go. This lot is reasonably portable and contained. Fuel costs using petrol would be in the region of 15 to 20 litres per week (£18 - £25?) This is based on 2hrs charge per day + a weekly 8hr absorption charge, expect a battery life of 2 years or more with cheapos. Genny should last at least 2 years. So that lot adds up to somewhere in the region of £500 pa for genny and battery renewal and £1000 to £1300 pa for petrol. Red diesel is cheaper but requires a more expensive, noisier and heavier genny.

 

Even if you have wind and solar power you will still need generator backup especially in the winter.

Edited December 29, 2010 by nb Innisfree

[Joshd]

Thank you everyone for the help so far.

 

I will have to do some more research in to these things. One other question what battery packs do you use and what inverters.

[Justme]

Forget small poxy 12v bats.

 

You want a battery made up of 2v cells like the forklift ones. Plus forget the cheap £400 gennies. They might last when not used much but in a prime mover situation like yours you need to spend some cash.

 

Any way all of this is of no help to you until you say how much power you will be using & what the peak load will be.

[nb Innisfree]

What type batteries depends on whether they are looked after, in your case they may be neglected due to the need to conserve fuel so cheapos are probably best then. If you spend lots on fuel to look after batts then expensive may be best, all options need to be weighed up.

 

IMO Victron combos are the best, THS one for instance but is limited to 2.5 kva max and 2kva continuous, OK if you are careful not to exceed this load, won't harm the inverter but it will cut out. 3 or 3.5 kva model may be more suitable but of course it will be pricey.

[david and julie]

It sounds like they already have the generator.

 

The generator is a stephill generator s6000d very reliable.

 

I think we all have an idea whats needed - I just wonder if the OP realises the costs involved.

[nb Innisfree]

Thank you everyone for the help so far.

 

I will have to do some more research in to these things. One other question what battery packs do you use and what inverters.

 

Ok Justme has rejected my view but the way I see it there is more than one way to skin a cat, whilst I don't knock his opinion cheap gennies and batteries are a realistic alternative if you are trying to keep costs down with a system which has got its merits.

 

What type batteries depends on whether they are looked after, in your case they may be neglected due to the need to conserve fuel so cheapos are probably best then. If you spend lots on fuel to look after batts then expensive may be best, all options need to be weighed up.

 

As for a cheap genny you need to spend a lot more (thousands) for a high quality one, a different kettle of fish to £400.

 

ETA. For a sixth of the price of a high quality diesel genny you can buy two Kipors and have a backup!

Edited December 30, 2010 by nb Innisfree

[bottle]

Inverter........Victron actually a lot of us use the inverter/charger (Combi) does both jobs and should be set up by someone who knows what they are doing, a computer is involved.

It is a very clever piece of kit but it should be set up correctly, for your loading, usage, battery type and more.

 

Batteries ..... the world is your oyster, depends on how much you want to spend, any 'leisure' battery from about £85 to deep cycle 2v cells costing over a £1,000 each.