Don`t say I didn`t warn you

[Phil Speight]

HiY`all

 

I`ve said it before BUT ;

last winter,as you may recall, there was a major outbreak of micro-blistering on boats - the effects contnued to develope well into the Spring. It affected recently painted boats in particular but paint work of all ages was affeced. The entire paint industry ( where it was felt appropriate ) did a vast amount of research into the problem - I myself spent months and drove a huge number of miles in pursuit of a cause.

The problem stemmed ( although lots of people - some with a vested interest - refused to accept our findings ) from a build up of snow and ice on roofs, decks and up cabin sides from the gumwhales. This , when left uncleared for extended periods , caused an impermeable barrier that trapped moisture against the paint. It affected paint from Craftmaster, Narrowboat Paint, International , Epiphanes , Masons and all other synthetic enamels. It was not a paint failure and neither , in most cases, it should not have been blamed on the painters. The materials were being asked to perform way beyond any normal tolerances.

Now, those who didn`t believe me then ( accusing me of "covering my own arse" etc and even of offloading my company after 10 years of graft and sacrifice in order to avoid responsibility ) STILL WON`T BELIEVE ME . However it would do even them no harm to keep their boats clear of snow and ice as much as absolutely possible. I have no axe to grind here , I`m genuinley trying to be helpful. If you get a problem it will not impact on me in the slightest - just , please, do as I suggest . It may well save you a lot of heartache. If you choose to ignore this - fine. Just don`t blame your painter or the paint manufacturer if you get a problem later.

This reads perhaps a little bit angry. It wasn`t meant to I asure you. Some of the insults I had to put up with last time round were appalling and unforgiveable. I won`t be as accepting of it this time if anyone starts grouching. I`m not a part of Craftmaster`s "frontline" now - being the backroom guru (!) as it were. This time Ill bight back big style. So - all you who I know and love - do as I ask. All you who chose to call me dishonest rather than shoulder any blame yourselves - do it anyway. It would be appropriate at this time of year for us perhaps to kiss and make up.So to speak.

Cheers

Phil

By the way - I will not join in any debate about micro blistering should it occur. I didn`t waste all the effort I put in last winter - so , as far as I`m concerned , there is nothing to debate.

[Midnight Rider]

Hello Phil --- seasons greetings.

 

I was on one of your courses earlier in the year, so I have had the gospel preached.

 

I have to say that I wasn't prepared to do much in the way of boat cleaning in February & my 4 year old paintwork did not suffer unduly.

 

Same this time really, I just brush off when posible.

 

Would it be recently painted boats that suffer most or it it just the luck of the draw?

 

By the way, did you take up the pipe & if so did you try the dark shag?

 

Tony

[Artimis]

Phill

 

Ive got an open mind so can you detail the chemical/metalurgical events which are causing this to happen

 

When my shell was being built this summer, I was annoyed to find the boat yard guys have an habit of drinking tea on the job and putting mugs down on steelwork.

 

Where tea was dripped and mugs placed is now where my oxide primer is rusting and bubbling.

 

What is my best plan for tackling the steel prep when better weather comes?

[Biggles]

Hi

 

I noticed the other day I have micro blistering on the bonnet of my motorhome that was professionally painted in 2pac with oven and lacquer.

 

I will be taking it up with the spray shop.

 

Also my boat build sides have become rough. Again 2pac but spray but done outside. Should just need buffing I am hoping.

 

Biggles

[Ally]

wait and see how it is come the warmer weather in spring.....

[Phil Speight]

Hi

 

As I said - I aren`t going to discuss this online. I spent too much time doing that very thing last winter. However , I`m more than happy to talk on the phone about the nature of the problem and how you should prepare your steelwork. Phone me by, all means, on 01838 400269 and I`ll help all I can. And send me a Discovery back bumper while you`re at it. Bloody ice.......

Phill

 

Ive got an open mind so can you detail the chemical/metalurgical events which are causing this to happen

 

When my shell was being built this summer, I was annoyed to find the boat yard guys have an habit of drinking tea on the job and putting mugs down on steelwork.

bb

Where tea was dripped and mugs placed is now where my oxide primer is rusting and bubbling.

 

What is my best plan for tackling the steel prep when better weather comes?

[Giggetty]

HiY`all

 

I`ve said it before BUT ;

last winter,as you may recall, there was a major outbreak of micro-blistering on boats - the effects contnued to develope well into the Spring. It affected recently painted boats in particular but paint work of all ages was affeced. The entire paint industry ( where it was felt appropriate ) did a vast amount of research into the problem - I myself spent months and drove a huge number of miles in pursuit of a cause.

The problem stemmed ( although lots of people - some with a vested interest - refused to accept our findings ) from a build up of snow and ice on roofs, decks and up cabin sides from the gumwhales. This , when left uncleared for extended periods , caused an impermeable barrier that trapped moisture against the paint. It affected paint from Craftmaster, Narrowboat Paint, International , Epiphanes , Masons and all other synthetic enamels. It was not a paint failure and neither , in most cases, it should not have been blamed on the painters. The materials were being asked to perform way beyond any normal tolerances.

Now, those who didn`t believe me then ( accusing me of "covering my own arse" etc and even of offloading my company after 10 years of graft and sacrifice in order to avoid responsibility ) STILL WON`T BELIEVE ME . However it would do even them no harm to keep their boats clear of snow and ice as much as absolutely possible. I have no axe to grind here , I`m genuinley trying to be helpful. If you get a problem it will not impact on me in the slightest - just , please, do as I suggest . It may well save you a lot of heartache. If you choose to ignore this - fine. Just don`t blame your painter or the paint manufacturer if you get a problem later.

This reads perhaps a little bit angry. It wasn`t meant to I asure you. Some of the insults I had to put up with last time round were appalling and unforgiveable. I won`t be as accepting of it this time if anyone starts grouching. I`m not a part of Craftmaster`s "frontline" now - being the backroom guru (!) as it were. This time Ill bight back big style. So - all you who I know and love - do as I ask. All you who chose to call me dishonest rather than shoulder any blame yourselves - do it anyway. It would be appropriate at this time of year for us perhaps to kiss and make up.So to speak.

Cheers

Phil

By the way - I will not join in any debate about micro blistering should it occur. I didn`t waste all the effort I put in last winter - so , as far as I`m concerned , there is nothing to debate.

Phil-a timely reminder. Thanks for the tip. I'm off to the marina with a broom now. At -8 deg C it won't be fun. Hopefully at that temperature there won't be much moisture around to offend.

 

Adrian

[David Schweizer]

Hello Phil, First of all, I hope that you remember that I was NOT one of those who blamed you. In fact you gave me some very hel;pful advice when the problem occured on our boat after I painted part of the roof with International Paint.

 

Now to the issue of snow. I am unable to get to our boat to clear snow, but I do not clear the snow off the roof of my car either, and it can sit there for days (or even weeks) before it thaws naturally, but the paint doesn't blister. Would it be better to paint the roof of the boat with a cellulose based pint, rather than an enamel. Would that survive inclement weather better, or would hand brushed cellulosealso blister under the same circumstances ?

[richardf]

This is a major concern.

 

I have always been a believer in what Phil says and have attended one of his excellent training courses - it taught me that I would never be able to do the job myself!

I have subsequently booked my boat into Dadford Shed for a full repaint in Feb. I don't live on my boat, nor do I visit it regularly at times of foul weather (like now for example).

I have committed to spending several thousands of pounds on a full repaint - but from what I can gather the paint used in this type of work is being used outside of its

design criteria, ie in freezing conditions with standing snow and ice.

In the absence of anyone else to guide me - can anyone tell me if there is anything that can be done in terms of preparation, paint choice, application or maintenance? Is there something just over the horizon in terms of paint technology that will solve this issue.

It will be the biggest expense that I ever incur (hopefully) with the boat and I am hoping for something that will remain pristine for many years to come. If it doesn't, then I might as well keep my existing paint and my money.

[Adam Brown]

This is a major concern.

 

I have always been a believer in what Phil says and have attended one of his excellent training courses - it taught me that I would never be able to do the job myself!

I have subsequently booked my boat into Dadford Shed for a full repaint in Feb. I don't live on my boat, nor do I visit it regularly at times of foul weather (like now for example).

I have committed to spending several thousands of pounds on a full repaint - but from what I can gather the paint used in this type of work is being used outside of its

design criteria, ie in freezing conditions with standing snow and ice.

In the absence of anyone else to guide me - can anyone tell me if there is anything that can be done in terms of preparation, paint choice, application or maintenance? Is there something just over the horizon in terms of paint technology that will solve this issue.

It will be the biggest expense that I ever incur (hopefully) with the boat and I am hoping for something that will remain pristine for many years to come. If it doesn't, then I might as well keep my existing paint and my money.

 

Its not soley one thing or another. If the majority of boats that blistered had of had the standing snow and ice cleaned off them last winter the problem would not have been anywhere near as bad. There were of course also some cases of painters using insufficent coats to develop a sufficient thickness of coating. To my knowledge there are no plans to develop anything to sovle the problem as its not an issue with the coating its the maintenance thats generally at fault. There is an additive for the primer that can be used to help ease the problems but its not 100% effective.

 

If John Sanderson is painting you boat (I think its him your reffereing to at Dadfords) he will know about the additive as he trialed it with Phil last year. If you are concerned about the blistering I would recommend using this but talk it through with John

 

For those interested and to prove its not solely a Synthetic problem or solely a canal problem HMG have put this article up on their website discussing Blistering. It should answer a few questions

 

Moisture Blistering Article

Edited December 22, 2010 by Adam Brown

[alan_fincher]

Thank you Mr Speight!

 

Last years problems had been at the back of my mind, particularly as we repainted the boat this August, but family issues have kept us away from the boat.

 

Following your prompt, we have been and tried to shovel as much of a maybe 5" layer from the roof.

 

Managed most of it, although there is still some iced up bits at the sides by the handrails, that I didn't want to attack with anything to aggressive.

 

Tip to anyone trying this....

 

I assumed an old rubber car mat would be a good base to operate from, and stop me ending up in the cut. Not so! As it slowly acquired a layer of impacted snow on the bottom, it quickly took on the characteristics of one of those mats they supply at fairgrounds to go down a helter-skelter!

 

Avoid use of rubber car mats on slippery painted boat roofs, it seems!....

 

Boat not quite completely frozen in, but very close to it. Lowest temperature recorded inside, (bed area) appears to be around -5 degrees, for the last week or so.

 

Didn't even try to address suspected iced up water system - one for another day!

[Grace and Favour]

Phil,

 

Many thanks for your timely reminder.

 

And sincere thanks for the work on G&F earlier this year - - it's great!

[J R]

Phill

 

Ive got an open mind so can you detail the chemical/metalurgical events which are causing this to happen

 

When my shell was being built this summer, I was annoyed to find the boat yard guys have an habit of drinking tea on the job and putting mugs down on steelwork.

 

Where tea was dripped and mugs placed is now where my oxide primer is rusting and bubbling.

 

What is my best plan for tackling the steel prep when better weather comes?

 

Your best plan is to stop your work people drinking tea If your boat was built this summer it should be under a guarantee; contact boatyard/builders and raise the matter and request that it is sorted.

[sumajan]

Just when I was starting to relax. Living miles from my boat I thought I had prepared it for winter as much as possible Had drained the engine and refilled with antifreeze, drained the water system and arranged with a LB next door to keep an eye on it. I then read a post about slackening lines incase of flooding when the great thaw sets in. Panic stations. Are my lines to tight?. Contact my neighbour who says he'll slacken them off for me. Relax again. Then I read about diesel freezing. Panic stations. Checked and its o.k. at present. Relax again. Now I read about my paintwork so I'm in a state of panic again. Fortunately I painted it myself so any damage caused by the weather will not really be a problem. Can't relax this time - waiting for the next post.

Edited December 23, 2010 by sumajan

[Midnight Rider]

Forget it & enjoy Christmas.

 

I'm sure that no one has been near half the boats in our marina since the bad weather started.

 

It has to be hoped that the appropriate preparations were done before the boats were left, but I doubt it in some cases.

 

I know someone who intended to prepare his boat for winter & didn't make it in time.

 

When he eventually visited he realised that he hadn't even turned the water pump off. Joint on shower had burst & water tank emptied into the bottom of the boat.

 

I try to visit the boat a couple of times a week, but I wouldn't worry about it.

 

Tony

[Neil Corbett]

I don't know whether to thank Phil or to curse him! Following his advice I went out to the boat today and scraped off all the ice and snow. No good doing it standing up, just too dangerous, so I knelt and now I have very sore knees! Advice - take a mat and some waterproof gloves. The gloves are a real life saver. A broom was useless especially where the ice was thick along the sides of the roof. I resorted to scraping with a piece of plywood, which I don't think scratched the paint.

 

Now that the roof is clear, I expect it'll snow again soon.

[Biggles]

 

 

For those interested and to prove its not solely a Synthetic problem or solely a canal problem HMG have put this article up on their website discussing Blistering. It should answer a few questions

 

Moisture Blistering Article

 

 

Exactly whats happened to my bonnet.

 

Biggles

[Nickhlx]

Is it not a reasonable idea to wash the snow off ? Of course it will make the boat wet, but I guess melting snow does too.... At least there should be no risk of scratching the paint, and if it could be done on a day when it is a degree or two above zero, hopefully there's a chance it would dry off a bit before it maybe ices up again at night. Of course of your pontoon water supply is frozen that's not going to help - perhaps a hole bashed in the ice and a pump lowered in or maybe you have enough water in the cold water tank to use by the bucketfull ?

 

Any reason why not ?

 

Nick

[alan_fincher]

.............and if it could be done on a day when it is a degree or two above zero, hopefully there's a chance it would dry off a bit before it maybe ices up again at night

At least around here, I think you might have a problem finding such a day!

 

Whilst the air temperature might have been at around zero the day we tried to clear ours. the roof almost certainly hadn't risen above zero, and I think water poured on would have frozen on.

 

As to the "get it from the canal" suggestion, I think you would need copious amounts of water at near freezing to have much success melting any significant amount of ice with it!

 

If you had a source of hot water it might be different, but a full to the brim electric kettle, fully boiled, is currently only just enough to turn the contents of my garden bird bath from something they could skate on to something they can bathe in.

[DeanS]

Just when I was starting to relax. Living miles from my boat I thought I had prepared it for winter as much as possible Had drained the engine and refilled with antifreeze, drained the water system and arranged with a LB next door to keep an eye on it. I then read a post about slackening lines incase of flooding when the great thaw sets in. Panic stations. Are my lines to tight?. Contact my neighbour who says he'll slacken them off for me. Relax again. Then I read about diesel freezing. Panic stations. Checked and its o.k. at present. Relax again. Now I read about my paintwork so I'm in a state of panic again. Fortunately I painted it myself so any damage caused by the weather will not really be a problem. Can't relax this time - waiting for the next post.

 

Did you switch off the gas?

[the grinch]

Phil there are a good number of believers far more than the doubters, I personally believe and say a big thank you for the timely advice

any surface covered in a wet substance for any amount of time is going to suffer no matter what the head in the sand people say!

 

keep up the good work

 

merry xmas to all

kev

[Mukiwa]

Its not soley one thing or another. If the majority of boats that blistered had of had the standing snow and ice cleaned off them last winter the problem would not have been anywhere near as bad. There were of course also some cases of painters using insufficent coats to develop a sufficient thickness of coating. To my knowledge there are no plans to develop anything to sovle the problem as its not an issue with the coating its the maintenance thats generally at fault. There is an additive for the primer that can be used to help ease the problems but its not 100% effective.

 

If John Sanderson is painting you boat (I think its him your reffereing to at Dadfords) he will know about the additive as he trialed it with Phil last year. If you are concerned about the blistering I would recommend using this but talk it through with John

 

For those interested and to prove its not solely a Synthetic problem or solely a canal problem HMG have put this article up on their website discussing Blistering. It should answer a few questions

 

Moisture Blistering Article

 

Adam,

 

Thank you for the link to the moisture blistering article, very informative. My understanding of the last paragraph is that bad weather will only cause problems if there is contamination in the paint or the surface was not properly prepared. Therefore bad weather on it's own is nothing to concern us. Am I correct in this assumption? Merry Christmas.

[owen]

HiY`all

 

I`ve said it before BUT ;

last winter,as you may recall, there was a major outbreak of micro-blistering on boats - the effects contnued to develope well into the Spring. It affected recently painted boats in particular but paint work of all ages was affeced. The entire paint industry ( where it was felt appropriate ) did a vast amount of research into the problem - I myself spent months and drove a huge number of miles in pursuit of a cause.

The problem stemmed ( although lots of people - some with a vested interest - refused to accept our findings ) from a build up of snow and ice on roofs, decks and up cabin sides from the gumwhales. This , when left uncleared for extended periods , caused an impermeable barrier that trapped moisture against the paint. It affected paint from Craftmaster, Narrowboat Paint, International , Epiphanes , Masons and all other synthetic enamels. It was not a paint failure and neither , in most cases, it should not have been blamed on the painters. The materials were being asked to perform way beyond any normal tolerances.

Now, those who didn`t believe me then ( accusing me of "covering my own arse" etc and even of offloading my company after 10 years of graft and sacrifice in order to avoid responsibility ) STILL WON`T BELIEVE ME . However it would do even them no harm to keep their boats clear of snow and ice as much as absolutely possible. I have no axe to grind here , I`m genuinley trying to be helpful. If you get a problem it will not impact on me in the slightest - just , please, do as I suggest . It may well save you a lot of heartache. If you choose to ignore this - fine. Just don`t blame your painter or the paint manufacturer if you get a problem later.

This reads perhaps a little bit angry. It wasn`t meant to I asure you. Some of the insults I had to put up with last time round were appalling and unforgiveable. I won`t be as accepting of it this time if anyone starts grouching. I`m not a part of Craftmaster`s "frontline" now - being the backroom guru (!) as it were. This time Ill bight back big style. So - all you who I know and love - do as I ask. All you who chose to call me dishonest rather than shoulder any blame yourselves - do it anyway. It would be appropriate at this time of year for us perhaps to kiss and make up.So to speak.

Cheers

Phil

By the way - I will not join in any debate about micro blistering should it occur. I didn`t waste all the effort I put in last winter - so , as far as I`m concerned , there is nothing to debate.

hi is there a link to the original post last year cheers owen i have great respect for true craftsmen and there ability to still help others

[Adam Brown]

Adam,

 

Thank you for the link to the moisture blistering article, very informative. My understanding of the last paragraph is that bad weather will only cause problems if there is contamination in the paint or the surface was not properly prepared. Therefore bad weather on it's own is nothing to concern us. Am I correct in this assumption? Merry Christmas.

 

To a point. The article deals with the main problems at the application end. However if the paintwork is not subsequently looked after that can be a major factor and I believe in terms of last winters problems was the main problem. The weather itself isn't the issue its the lack of maintainence of the paintwork thats the main fault

 

There will of course be other factors - the main one being if a surface is primed and left for long periods. Primer being porous absorbs moisture and so once overcoated the moisture will at some point want to come out causing blistering.

[Dorman]

To a point. The article deals with the main problems at the application end. However if the paintwork is not subsequently looked after that can be a major factor and I believe in terms of last winters problems was the main problem. The weather itself isn't the issue its the lack of maintainence of the paintwork thats the main fault

 

There will of course be other factors - the main one being if a surface is primed and left for long periods. Primer being porous absorbs moisture and so once overcoated the moisture will at some point want to come out causing blistering.

 

Steel boat osmosis